Gyroscopic Investing

WildAboutHarry wrote: Seriously, for me it is a simple equation.  Are the risk and consequences of an adverse reaction to a vaccine greater than the same for the disease?  If so, avoid the vaccine.  If not, get the shot.

Don't we only have vaccines for diseases with horrobile outcomes?  The flu shot doesn't really count since thats more marketing fiction for profit than substance.

How do you decide that the risk of premature ovary failure (among many other negative, scary effects) in your pre-teen daughter is acceptable compared to the chance of getting a virus from sexual activity that might cause cervical cancer?  How can you even accurately judge the risk and probabilities when there is no transparency and insufficient data except for the most blatantly obvious?  Adverse events to vaccines are VOLUNTARILY REPORTED -- how well do you think that works as a monitoring system?  Are physicians considered to be the "transnational elite"???

MachineGhost wrote: The relentless tit sucking at vaccination around here makes me sick.  It is the very last vestige of trust in Omniscient Big Government leftover from the naive 1950's.

I posted this for a reason. Because I am open to both sides, and I am curious as to whether others have factual data to support one position or another. Conspiracy theories and vulgar, inflammatory language ("I am right and the majority of you are complete idiots") kind of stuff does not do your position any justice.

Can you provide some factual data to support your position, please?
[/quote]

As I previously mentioned, adverse events to vaccines are voluntarily reported (if they're even recognized and/or submitted), so we don't have full transparency.  The other problem is the CDC actively REFUSES to study vaccines long-term safety after approval (they just ignore the vaccine adverse event reports) 

But what we can do is look at the records from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) where almost $3 billion has been paid out to over 4,000 families: http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation ... report.pdf

VICP:
83 Cases of Autism: http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/view ... ntext=pelr

Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS):
30,000 Average Reports Each Year: https://vaers.hhs.gov/about/index

Measles:
108 Babies Dead: http://www.globalresearch.ca/measles-va ... es/5429736

MMR:
CDC Whistblower about Fraudulent Paper Long Used by Pro-Vaxxers Showing No Connection to Autism: http://i65.tinypic.com/2ywd5k1.jpg
Autism in Blacks: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2902521/
New Researcher ReAnalyzes CDC Whistleblower's Data (almost 25% higher rate of autism or 340% higher after 36 months): http://translationalneurodegeneration.b ... -9158-3-16
CDC Whistleblower Revealed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGOtDVilkUc
New Researcher & CDC Whistleblower: http://www.ageofautism.com/2014/08/whis ... -mont.html
CBS Report About Vaccine Manufacturer's Financial Support of Medical Journals: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-indepen ... defenders/

HPV:
Premature Ovary Failure: http://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speak ... us-vaccine
Scientific Misconduct: http://sanevax.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... -GACVS.pdf
Postmortem DNA Fragments: http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInfor ... erID=25840
Merck's Former Doctor: http://www.collective-evolution.com/201 ... -all-time/
AutoImmune Problems: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 1/abstract

Adjuvants:
Aluminum: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14871632
Aluminum: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22099159
Formaldehyde: https://www3.epa.gov/airtoxics/hlthef/formalde.html
Borax: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbo ... able-2.pdf

Flu:
Security Theatre: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... ccine.aspx
Hospitals Penalized If Not Meeting Vaccinaton Quotas: http://khn.org/news/medicare-hospitals- ... urchasing/
Financially Driven, Not Safety Driven: http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/are-ma ... acilities/

Pro-Vaxxer Propaganda:
"Science is Settled": http://time.com/3947855/vaccine-poll-antivaxxers/
"How To Change an Anti-Vaxxer's Mind": http://time.com/3982723/changing-minds-vaccines/

Okay, that's all I can do for now.  Burned out.

MachineGhost wrote: Okay, that's all I can do for now.  Burned out.

Thanks!

dualstow wrote: There are a lot of charlatans who sell herbal supplements by making a bad guy out of the (admittedly problematic) pharmaceutical industry. I'm not comparing them to you, but I am saying that you both claim, "This industry is evil and full of lies, so what I have to tell you is true."

But, if I have to choose between my own doc & a general scientific consensus vs Opinionated Guy on the Internet (that's you), I'm going with my doctor.

Fair enough.  I don't think Big Pharma is evil, but it is breathtaking how corrupt it being in bed with the Big Government that is supposed to regulate it.  Without health freedom, everything else is truly meaningless.

Addendum

HPV:
Young Age HPV Infection == Later Cancer Unproven: https://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.as ... eid=184404
HPV Lead Research Speaks Out: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/gardasil-re ... peaks-out/

(There's 100 different types of HPV; only 15 might develop into cancer, someday; the HPV vaccine only targets a measly two.)

Adverse Outcomes (Anecdotal, Viewer Discretion Advised):
https://www.pinterest.com/wholewheatgai ... r-stories/

IDrinkBloodLOL wrote: That said, out of curiosity, what would health freedom look like?

That depends on whether you want the utopian answer or the pragmatic answer.  Be either way, the transnational elite won't like it.

MachineGhost wrote: How can you even accurately judge the risk and probabilities when there is no transparency and insufficient data except for the most blatantly obvious?

Smallpox is blatantly obvious.  Polio is blatantly obvious.  Diphtheria is blatantly obvious.  Pertussis is blatantly obvious.  Tetanus is blatantly obvious.  MMR have sufficient serious sequelae (couldn't resist the alliteration) to just about be blatantly obvious.  Varicella vaccine is just about blatantly obvious.  This, to me, is pretty simple risk management.

I get the desire to not take any risk with vaccination.  And there is a kind of tragedy of the commons aspect to this, where non-vaccinated individuals get a free ride if sufficient numbers of the population are vaccinated.

And while I am no fan of California's guvment, its recently mandated vaccinations for school children include the big ones.  Not HPV, etc.

Simonjester wrote: i am a bit leery of vaccination programs as they stand now... not because vaccinations are a bad idea... but the modern implementation seems highly questionable. the idea of vaccinations being given from minutes after birth and at what seems like very young ages, multiple illness vaccinations where they are all combined together, and questionable ingredients, all sound scary/unnecessary to me... i have no skin in the game so i haven't done any deep research and i probably wont bother until i have a need to know, but based on the limited knowledge i have now, i would be inclined to wait till the kids were older, use individual vaccinations instead of cocktails, and take great care, go to extra expense to get clean ingredients vs the "who knows what" they seem to be putting in many of them..

WildAboutHarry wrote: I get the desire to not take any risk with vaccination.  And there is a kind of tragedy of the commons aspect to this, where non-vaccinated individuals get a free ride if sufficient numbers of the population are vaccinated.

That's an excellent observation.  I have thought of it recently also.  The whole issue is just a tragedy.  But my understanding of the Tragedy of the Commons was that the Supreme Court neutered any further private civil or criminal litigation against polluters.  And the same exact thing happened with vaccine manufacturers.  We now rely on the corruptible government for enforcement against multi-property infringing pollution and protecting us from dangerous vaccines.  I am arguing that it has not worked out very well in the latter case.  There's no skin in the game.  There's no responsibility.  There's no accountability.  And children and parents are the victims.  How big does the problem have to get before the transnational elite realize they have a SNAFU on their hands?

And while I am no fan of California's guvment, its recently mandated vaccinations for school children include the big ones.  Not HPV, etc.

Slippery slope.  Some jurisdictions are already giving or mandating the HPV vaccine for elementary school girls.  Liberals can be Zombie Zealots when it comes to public policy initiatives.  Big Government can do no wrong.

As far as the old school vaccines that we all got on a relatively luxurious schedule, they don't exist anymore.  They're now in "improved, modern" but unproven bomb doses and formulations.  Even if you take out of all the toxic adjuvants and preservatives, you've still got the problem of unproven efficacy and unaccounted for side effects.  We can't even get our food labeled to reflect GMOs despite overwhelming public support, so I'm not holding my breath that the CDC and vaccine manufacturer's feel any feedback mechanism.  Otherwise, they would transparently address all of the issues head on instead of turning more and more stubborn and repressive.  What are they hiding?

Interesting and just sent to my rep:

I understand the California legislature is considering a bill, AB2638, that would protect physicians' rights to write medical exemptions to vaccination without fear of discipline or liability. I'm writing to urge you to support this important bill.

Since the passing of SB277, which eliminated all non-medical exemptions to vaccination, many doctors are refusing to write medical exemptions to anyone for any reason. This is because California law currently provides physicians freedom from liability for administering vaccinations, but not from writing medical exemptions.

In this environment, where physicians are denying medical exemptions to patients with qualifying medical circumstances due to fear of retaliation, the health of our most vulnerable patients is at risk.

The right of parents to make informed decisions regarding their children's health was seriously undercut by SB 277. It is critical that physicians feel empowered to grant qualifying patients medical exemptions to vaccination. Vaccines are not 100% safe, and some react more strongly than others to routine vaccinations. Please protect doctors qualified to make these judgments and allow them to protect our children!

Please support AB 2638.

Looks like "they" got to the CDC whistleblower.

[quote=https://www.focusforhealth.org/dr-brian ... -thompson/]Regardless of the content of Dr. Thompson’s reanalysis paper, these facts remain:

1. CDC scientists colluded to cover up a relationship between the timing of the MMR vaccine and autism in African Americans that was first discovered in November of 2001. Rather than reporting the results to the public, all data regarding this relationship were destroyed at a secret meeting held some time in August/September of 2002. This fact has been affirmed via an affidavit given by Dr. Thompson to Rep. Bill Posey in September, 2014.

2. Dr. Thompson attempted to warn the CDC Director at the time, Dr. Julie Gerberding, regarding this relationship, prior to the February 2004 Institute of Medicine meeting on vaccines and autism. Rather than allowing Dr. Thompson to present the information at this meeting, Dr. Gerberding replaced him as a speaker with Dr. Frank Destefano, current director of the CDC’s Immunization Safety Office, where he presented fraudulent results regarding the MMR vaccine and autism. Dr. Thompson was put on administrative leave and was threatened that he would be fired due to “insubordination.”

3. When Dr. Thompson attempted to leave the CDC later that same year, he was given a $24,000 retention bonus. Dr. Thompson’s impression of the timing of this bonus, in light of disciplinary actions taken against him earlier that year, is that CDC officials were “buying his silence” through controlling his actions as a CDC employee.

4. Dr. Thompson has published two papers linking thimerosal exposure in infant vaccines to tics in boys (Thompson et al. 2007 and Barile et al. 2012). CDC fraudulently maintains on their website that “There is no evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site.” (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/). The tic result was also affirmed in the earlier CDC publication by Verstraeten et al. (2003) and the Andrews et al. (2004) publication.

5. CDC pressured Dr. Thompson to downplay the tic result of his analysis in his 2007 paper. He was instructed to deemphasize the tic result by the CDC’s Chief Science Officer, Dr. Tanja Popovic, by emphasizing that the “major finding of the study” was “there is NO associations (sic) of thimerosal exposure with the great majority of the outcomes.” Dr. Popovic also instructed Dr. Thompson to interpret any negative outcomes as “chance findings.”

6. CDC also pressured Dr. Thompson to withhold publication of his 2012 paper which reported a relationship between thimerosal and tics. Dr. Ed Travathan, head of the CDC’s National Center for Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities, stated in an April 27, 2009 memo to him that the analysis was sound except for the tic results and that they should be omitted from the publication. Since the tic result was the only result that had a consistent negative relationship with thimerosal exposure, it seemed that Dr. Thompson’s superiors were specifically concerned that thimerosal’s safety and use not be questioned. As an epidemiologist, Dr. Thompson was justifiably concerned and critical of the CDC’s action to approve the paper for publication only after the CDC took the extraordinary step of adding an expert in tics to water down the paper to state, “This finding should be interpreted with caution due to limitations in the measurement of tics and the limited biological plausibility regarding a causal relationship.”
[/quote]

MachineGhost wrote: Regardless of the content of Dr. Thompson’s reanalysis paper...

Explain this part?

The flu vaccine?

I'm gathering that, for the most part, this is a fairly advanced aged group here. Prime group for that flu shot.

I've never had one. My doctor last year around this time recommended it to me and I said Yes. But somehow on the way out at the checkout desk no one flagged me to go wherever to get it. So, I did not get it that day.

Earlier this year I read an entire book on the flu - both its history and the effectiveness of the flu vaccine.

What I'm remembering is that they need to guess nine months in advance which flu strain is going to be prevalent. If their guess is correct, the vaccine is 75% effective. If wrong guess, then only 25% effective.

I have no plans to see my doctor again until next summer so I will not be in his office again for him to recommend me getting it this year.

How many of you here get your annual flu shot. And, this question just came to me: if you have a spouse or partner, do they make the same choice as you?

Vinny

No--my strategy is to avoid the bugs to begin with. If I do begin to feel like I'm coming down with something, elderberry tincture + Vitamin C always seem to do the trick.

I think I gave WiseOne some angst a couple of years ago when, after falling on a barbed wire fence, I struggled with the question whether to get a tetanus shot. It had been 30 or so years, so in that case it probably would have been prudent. However, I got my hackles up over the fact that all of the available tetanus vaccines came with other vaccines added in. The paternalism of the public health establishment made me mad, and Lord I'm stubborn when I'm mad.

MangoMan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:09 pm I get a flu shot every September, usually at Walgreens. I just had my annual physical, and since it has been 10 years since my last tetanus vaccine, I got one of those, too. Yes it is mixed with pertussis (whooping cough), but since I have grandkids it's supposed to be a good idea to have that protection. I will be getting the shingles vaccine next month.

I go to Stop & Shop and I see these free flu shots signs. And, I assume that they would be free to me being on Medicare. But I don't know how much time is involved in actually getting one. When I go to Stop & Shop I'm an extremely quick in and out person and would not want to have to spend much time getting that show.

I believe I did get a tetanus shot at one of my annual physicals.

Since I'm on zero medication I've chosen the least monthly cost Medicare drug plan, which of course offers the least coverage.

I think the shingles vaccine was, therefore, going to be in the neighborhood of $300 or $400 for me to get it?

Again, I can afford it and it would not ever dent my lifestyle but I've not yet got it. I think my doctor was talking to me about getting it just about the time a new version was just coming out?

Vinny

MangoMan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:03 pm I am almost 60 so not on Medicare. Blue Cross considers Shingrix a wellness benefit so it is covered 100% with no deductible. If you have ever had chicken pox, you are at shingles risk, and I know people who have had it and said it was horrible.

If you go to the pharmacy of any major retailer when they are not busy, the wait time for whatever vaccines they offer is minimal. Flu shots are 'free' only because every insurance company, medicare and medicaid cover it. If you are without insurance, they will charge you around $ 35

A person I know very well had shingles (after having both the original and Shringrix vaccinations several years apart) but supposedly the case was much milder than it would have been w/o vaccination according to the physician. The breakout sites were in the mouth, which took quite a while to diagnose (two dentists and two physicians over a couple weeks) as that is a rare place to develop shingles, and lower back. A consequence of the shingles in the mouth, according to the dentist, was two teeth developed "dying" nerves and required root canals. The back pain took several months to go away. Another person I knew got the breakout around one eye ... almost went blind. Anecdotes yes, but something to consider. The anecdotes are to express my agreement with MangoMan's comment about shingles being horrible. My wife and I did not hesitate, and suggest others not hesitate if you are old enough, to get vaccinated; the downside risk appears to be far, far less than the consequences resulting from a shingles attack.

question? if you had chicken pox as a kid then shingles as a young adult, have you become immune to shingles?

good to know...

I got my flu shot which is pretty much a job requirement for me.

Since the vaccine has to be made up before the flu starts spreading, it's always a bit of a guessing game as to which antigens are circulating. This year there was a big miss. know several people who have got the flu already despite being vaccinated.

Definitely focus on prevention this year. Flu is no joke when you're older.

(Maddy - so glad you had no problems with that barbed-wire episode! One more attempt to plead with you to get a tetanus shot? Whooping cough is starting to come back so not a terrible thing to get the combined shot anyway.)

MangoMan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:03 pm I am almost 60 so not on Medicare. Blue Cross considers Shingrix a wellness benefit so it is covered 100% with no deductible. If you have ever had chicken pox, you are at shingles risk, and I know people who have had it and said it was horrible.

If you go to the pharmacy of any major retailer when they are not busy, the wait time for whatever vaccines they offer is minimal. Flu shots are 'free' only because every insurance company, medicare and medicaid cover it. If you are without insurance, they will charge you around $ 35

I have had chicken pox (I think!). I remember the big 3 when I was a child was: measles, mumps, chicken pox. I know I had two of the three. And, I seem to remember it was the last two, "missing out" on the measles.

And, I have heard that you don't want to get shingles!

At your age how many more times for the rest of your life do you think you'll need to get a shingles vaccine shot?

Vinny

MangoMan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:10 am It is a 2 vaccine series, a couple of months apart. Pretty sure it's one and done.

For life?

Vinny

Mountaineer wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:33 am A person I know very well had shingles (after having both the original and Shringrix vaccinations several years apart) but supposedly the case was much milder than it would have been w/o vaccination according to the physician. The breakout sites were in the mouth, which took quite a while to diagnose (two dentists and two physicians over a couple weeks) as that is a rare place to develop shingles, and lower back. A consequence of the shingles in the mouth, according to the dentist, was two teeth developed "dying" nerves and required root canals. The back pain took several months to go away. Another person I knew got the breakout around one eye ... almost went blind. Anecdotes yes, but something to consider. The anecdotes are to express my agreement with MangoMan's comment about shingles being horrible. My wife and I did not hesitate, and suggest others not hesitate if you are old enough, to get vaccinated; the downside risk appears to be far, far less than the consequences resulting from a shingles attack.

Got shingles 2 years ago last month and yes it is awful. Mine was in the left arm and shoulder and I found nothing that provided anything more than mild relief for the pain. And then there was the constant itching which drove me crazy due to lack of sleep. All in all, the whole episode lasted about 2 months but for a lot of people, myself included, that's not the end of the story. There is something call PHN (post hepatic nueralgia) which can linger afterward for as long as the rest of your life. Mine has been gradually decreasing and is almost gone so I'm confident I won't be in the latter group.

I believe what brought my case on was a weakened immune system due to severe jetlag on a trip to Australia, followed with catching a very bad cold from being 8 days in a car with a child sneezing and coughing on me the whole time. That had been my second bad cold that year so my immune system was probably still in recovery from that. I'm no doctor but according to what I've read, it is believed that this can be what cases the virus, which has been tucked away and isolated somewhere in a nerve from chicken pox, to be set free. And obviously it's pissed off from being restrained for all those years.

My Dad had it. Shingles sounds absolutely horrible, and somehow your last line made me smile.

dualstow wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:31 am My Dad had it. Shingles sounds absolutely horrible, and somehow your last line made me smile.

My parents both had it. It is awful, and sometimes causes serious issues like hearing loss if it affects the ear, long-standing pain etc. Hope yours completely recovered? Anyway it's a blessing that people who got the vaccine before they could contract chicken pox won't have to worry about shingles.

Slight nitpick, the virus lives in nerve cells in the spinal cord or brainstem, not blood vessels. The linear distribution follows the dermatome innervated by the guilty nerve root. I guess this is nice to know because you know it won't spread beyond that, unless there are other nerve roots involved.

WiseOne wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:48 am

dualstow wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:31 am My Dad had it. Shingles sounds absolutely horrible, and somehow your last line made me smile.

My parents both had it. It is awful, and sometimes causes serious issues like hearing loss if it affects the ear, long-standing pain etc. Hope yours completely recovered? Anyway it's a blessing that people who got the vaccine before they could contract chicken pox won't have to worry about shingles.

Slight nitpick, the virus lives in nerve cells in the spinal cord or brainstem, not blood vessels. The linear distribution follows the dermatome innervated by the guilty nerve root. I guess this is nice to know because you know it won't spread beyond that, unless there are other nerve roots involved.

Yes, I remember reading that it was in a nerve, not a vein, so thanks for the correction. Honestly, I don't really know the difference though.

WiseOne, yes, he fully recovered in the sense that he didn’t go blind or anything like that. I think he mostly had it on his back, and he still has feelings of “electricity” on his chest from time to time.