Crazy Doctor Talk

[MediumTex]

A couple of off-topic questions...

• Do you really? (drink blood)
• Do you really? (laugh out loud while partaking)

I just play a demon cannibal on the internet.

In reality I'm almost 30 and I've totally lost control of my life. My days pass by in a dreamlike insomnia, none of my hours my own, constantly tasked with the impossible, at the beck and call of abusive strangers I can't refuse. I have no idea what's true anymore and after the last few years I honestly don't know what's right or wrong either.

While at work, do you ever feel like you're trapped under a pile of rubble?

[MediumTex]

While at work, do you ever feel like you're trapped under a pile of rubble?

I'd describe it more like you're trained in an army platoon to go out and fight the whole Vietnam war without any backup, and then one day you look up and notice that everyone around you and your commanding officers are all raccoons in fatigues, and their assault rifles are candy canes.

"Hey guys seriously do we at least have a map or any kind of plan or what?"

...and they all skitter around and start rummaging through the trash bin.

I can see how drinking blood would be the next logical step in a situation like that.

Do you ever wear one of those Davy Crockett hats when you are slurping the plasma?  That might make it all feel like a moral victory at least. 

[rickb]

Do you ever wear one of those Davy Crockett hats when you are slurping the plasma?  That might make it all feel like a moral victory at least. 

Some time ago I dressed up on Halloween (at work) as a corporate HR executive, which of course means a Dracula sort of outfit (imagine Dracula in an expensive 3-piece suit).  I carried around a partially filled 10 gallon Ziploc bag with a clear plastic tube and approached everyone I saw saying "I'm from HR.  I vant your blood - all of it!"  I dropped by the local blood donation center.  They did not seem particularly amused.

[WiseOne]

While at work, do you ever feel like you're trapped under a pile of rubble?

All the time!!!

Carving out time to work on an enjoyable, long-term project has been just an invitation for yet another "nastygram" to pop up in the inbox, demanding that I instead spend the time on the latest ACGME-mandated task, candidate interview, meeting, accounting/personnel issue that the supposed administrators can't handle so somehow it's up to the MDs to deal with, etc. 

Not to mention I'm now into the tenure process at a university with a very high opinion of itself.  Yay, except it will be 12-18 months of pain and substantial extra work starting now.

[jafs]

From what I've heard, becoming a doctor involves subjecting yourself to a lot of stress/extreme treatment.  It doesn't make any sense if we want to help people become balanced healers, so I'm not sure why it's done that way.

The movie "The Doctor" was good and thought provoking about this issue.

[jafs]

Sounds like a reasonable balanced plan - I hope you manage to make that happen.

[Pointedstick]

There are a lot of jobs that are fun and cool that can nonetheless make you miserable because of the traits of the average person who who chooses to work those jobs. College English professor comes to mind as another example. If you decide to stick with your plan, ERE seems like a good idea--get out as soon as possible before you lose your sanity. It's more valuable than the money, or your dreams, or your interests, and certainly the inertia of your life.

[Tyler]

Just want to say thanks for joining the forum and contributing, IDB.  I love your perspective.

And welcome to the ERE dark side.

[WiseOne]

Are you nearly through the process?  It sounds like it's taking a heavy toll.

Right in transition between second and third year. Studying for the licensing exam.

The time commitment sucks, but I'm good at taking time back for myself. I actually enjoy the subject matter and doing the work.

What makes it awful are the humans.

The school treats you like cattle and the students are third and fourth generation preening social climbers. Literally, all they do all day every day is to try to appear smarter than each other. Emphasis on the word "appear." I do what I have to to get by, but I've seen people get treated like lepers for the stupidest stuff. Not dressing like a sitcom stereotype of a super geek, not using super formal language for no reason, not having the "right" opinions political or otherwise, not pretending every incompetent, negligent and malicious act of the school is a fun experience for our benefit and there's nothing they'd rather be doing with their time...

The whole thing is a joke. It reminds me of a communist country where everything is going to hell and there's famines and all the people around you are still squawking about how the czar is a god and everything is perfectly under control and in our best interests.

You remember when the last few Harry Potter movies came out and there were people lined up in costumes? Imagine that but with The Big Bang Theory. Best possible summary of med school I could give.

For Harry Potter, people showed up early in the frosty morning LONG before the theater was opened dressed like fat Hogwarts wizards. They lined up, pushed and shoved for a chance to get screwed out of $12 for a theater soda.

Replace Harry Potter characters, $12 and a soda with Sheldon Cooper, $300,000 and having the dean give you a digital rectal exam while everyone watches.

"ME! ME! PICK ME! I WANNA GO NEXT!"
"Silence plebeian, I've been waiting for this DRE since I was in preschool. CLEARLY it should be ME."

It's not just a job with these people, it's an absurd cult to see who is most dedicated to the scientific establishment's party line. If you don't look like a PhD at first glance and aren't willing to sacrifice all of your time, money and family for the cause of F**king Science! (tm), then you're scum. If you even feel like you should be financially compensated for any of this, you are Literally Hitler.

Me? I want to practice part time and spend the rest managing money, doing hobbies and hanging out with friends and family. If all goes well then 3% withdrawal should cover most if not all of our basic expenses before I even start residency.

I don't mind medicine, but I feel no joy in dealing with these "colleagues," so as early as humanly possible I want to make it an option, not an obligation.

As someone who has been through the process...

If you're saying this now, particularly the statements in bold, you are in the WRONG business my friend.  Get out now.  Take a job with the pharmaceutical or insurance company, go into hospital administration, be a lab rat....anything but medicine.  The issues you describe, as well as your attitude, are only going to get worse.  You ain't seen nothing yet.  I would say that right now you have approximately a zero percent chance of getting as far as hanging out a shingle and practicing.

There is no shame in dropping out of medical school.  The shame comes when you're halfway through residency and either get booted out or leave of your own accord after having wasted many years & dollars, leaving your colleagues to pick up the slack.  Do not let it get to that stage.

[jafs]

Are you really saying that it's not possible for somebody to be a doctor, practice part-time and have a balanced life?

I hope not!

[Pointedstick]

Medicine is a major industry with a grueling career path process. Anything that is routinized, systematized, regulated, and subjected to an expensive hierarchical initiation process will tend to be drained of compassion. The notion of a gigantic multi billion dollar medical industry that is full of compassion is unfortunately nonsensical.

You know all those jokes where the punchline involves "doctors and lawyers?" Note what these careers have in common: money! You go into professions like these to make big bucks, not to live a life of compassion. If you want that, try teaching or religion.

I think it's worth reflecting on why you want to enter this industry that you clearly seem to despise already. If your highest goals are work/life balance, the ability to have fun hobbies and hang out people who are important to you, you can bypass ERE entirely and have that right now by simply going into another field! No need to take the hard way that will strain your mental health when the easy way beckons. I'm doing ERE too, but I like my job and my colleagues. If I felt the same way about them that you seem to feel about your life circumstances, I wouldn't wait another day: I'd quit pronto. Anything is better than living like that. It's avoidable! Drink someone else's blood! There are plenty of necks, in the, uh, sea.

[jafs]

So there are/can be no compassionate doctors?

That really doesn't make sense to me - maybe Mr./Ms. Drinks blood wants to be one of those.  After all, being a doctor is a helping profession.  I agree that the training to be a doctor seems designed to crush the spirit and beat the **** out of people, and that's a very bad way to train people if you want them to become more compassionate.

[Pointedstick]

So there are/can be no compassionate doctors?

That really doesn't make sense to me - maybe Mr./Ms. Drinks blood wants to be one of those.  After all, being a doctor is a helping profession.  I agree that the training to be a doctor seems designed to crush the spirit and beat the **** out of people, and that's a very bad way to train people if you want them to become more compassionate.

What I'm saying is that if you want to be a compassionate doctor, you will be fighting the system. Sucks, but that's the way it seems to be.

[jafs]

Yes, it sucks.

The fact that he/she wants to work part-time and can afford to do that should help, I would think.  Part of the problem with many doctors is that they have to cram as many patients in/out of the office as they can, which doesn't allow for much time/energy for each patient.

[BearBones]

You go into professions like these to make big bucks, not to live a life of compassion. If you want that, try teaching or religion.

Why do so many in this group like to make broad sweeping angry and/or totally cynical generalizations, often about things they really know little about? I ordinarily ignore the threads on this forum that are about arguments and strong opinions (e.g, Trump for president) in favor of investing wisdom. Got sucked into this one by the title.

Don't mean to come down hard on you, PS. I have a lot or respect for you. Generally love your posts and have learned about ERE from you. Just seems like most of the posts on this forum recently are largely about affirming a strong ego identity. While beating on the chest, "I'm smart. I'm right. I'm smart. I'm right..."

And now I'm participating... Ha.

[Pointedstick]

Nah it's all good BB! I'll admit I have no idea what I'm talking about here. I'm just basing it on the feelings expressed by a lot more doctors I personally know, but maybe they're the crabby outliers.

Even better, maybe you can help poor Mr. Vampire not lose his mind in medicine.

[WiseOne]

I have zero interest in promulgating the self-sacrificing ideal of a doctor who gives up a personal life for the sake of their patients.  Nobody seriously believes that, if indeed they ever did.

The problem is that the level of cynicism and dislike for the medical profession that Mr. or Ms. Blood Drinker is showing is pretty extreme for this early stage, when most people are enthusiastic and optimistic about their career choice.  Cynicism will increase exponentially from here, given the current environment.  Inevitably it will rub off on fellow students, and most attendings will be perceptive enough to pick up on it as well.  Poor grades and ostracism from peers are pretty much a guarantee.  And what's going to happen when he/she has to pull all nighters on a regular schedule, and work 80-100 hour weeks?  That's residency and much of the clerkship years as well.

Why would you spend ANY time on a profession you dislike?  Part time of badness is still badness.  There are lots of other careers, and certainly lots of other ways to earn money - many of them substantially easier than medicine.

There's nothing wrong with working part time in medicine.  I know several people who do that.  But the thing is, you have a minimum of 5 years until that happens, and that's only if you restrict yourself to general medicine or pediatrics.  For any other specialty, add more years.

[WiseOne]

2 years clerkships (you said you're studying for USMLE now), prior to graduating med school.

3 years residency for internal medicine or pediatrics.

2 + 3 = 5.

If you go for, let's say, radiology, then the path is different.  Same 2 years clerkships, but now you have one year internship and 4 years residency.  2 + 1 + 4 = 7 years, from now until you actually get a job as a radiologist.

But then, let's say you want to subspecialize.  Fellowships are anywhere from 1 to 4 years after residency.  Add that to the total.

In my case it was 4 years med school, 3 years PhD, 1 year internship, 3 years residency, 2 years fellowship.  If I were angry and bitter through that whole process, I'd have been one destroyed former human being by the end of it.  I just took the time to write what I did in hopes that you might be spared that.

[MediumTex]

So there are/can be no compassionate doctors?

That really doesn't make sense to me - maybe Mr./Ms. Drinks blood wants to be one of those.  After all, being a doctor is a helping profession.  I agree that the training to be a doctor seems designed to crush the spirit and beat the **** out of people, and that's a very bad way to train people if you want them to become more compassionate.

My impression of medical school has always been to make sure that geeky science-types who are also assholes will have a career path.  I didn't think that the "wise and humble healer" ideal had that much to do with it.

Law school provides the same type of career path for geeky liberal arts-type assholes.

Having traveled the law school path myself, I have found that people like me (lifelong non-assholes  ) often just squeaked through passages that were clearly designed so that only jerks could pass through easily.

[jafs]

Well, maybe so.

But as patients, we want smart, well-educated but also compassionate doctors who know how to listen to/talk to their patients about health issues, don't we?

[MediumTex]

Well, maybe so.

But as patients, we want smart, well-educated but also compassionate doctors who know how to listen to/talk to their patients about health issues, don't we?

Honestly, I just want a doctor that isn't going to go concierge the MOMENT he can.

[jafs]

Even if they're stupid, arrogant, and impossible to communicate with?

[MediumTex]

Even if they're stupid, arrogant, and impossible to communicate with?

I'm not saying that's what I would want in a perfect world.  What I am saying is that I believe these types of practitioners are what our current system spits out.

If you can get past their lousy personalities and poor bedside manner, U.S. doctors as a group are probably the finest in the world, and people should remember that as well.  The fact that creating these fine doctors often twists their personalities into a permanent state of unpleasantness is something the medical profession needs to figure out if they care about their own lives.  If people who think they are that smart are, in fact, not smart enough to avoid ruining their personalities and making their personal lives toxic, then maybe they are really just a bunch of semi-delusional high functioning idio savants, notwithstanding the stories they tell themselves about how "special" they are.

My aunt is a long-time ER nurse and one time she was telling me about this new doctor whose personality was creating a lot of workplace stress.  She said when you're trying to save people in emergencies, it's hard to constantly keep a red carpet rolled out for an arrogant narcissistic kid who doesn't know how to talk to anyone without looking down at them.

[MediumTex]

Even if they're stupid, arrogant, and impossible to communicate with?

.

Physicians with those personality traits are unlikely to succeed in a concierge practice model.

Yep.  What we're headed for is a world where the regular people are going have to settle for seeing the arrogant jerks when they get sick.  If you've got money, you will get to see the Marcus Welbys.  In the last five years I have lost two really good personal doctors to a paywall. 

[BearBones]

... people like me (lifelong non-assholes  )...

Not really congruous with:

My impression of medical school has always been to make sure that geeky science-types who are also assholes will have a career path.  I didn't think that the "wise and humble healer" ideal had that much to do with it.

What we're headed for is a world where the regular people are going have to settle for seeing the arrogant jerks when they get sick.

Sorry you are having a bad experience, Tex. We can see you have a lot of anger here, and I am sure you can find some likeminded to commiserate with here. But can we move this thread to the "I have a lot of anger and I need to vent by saying a lot of parochial, inflammatory comments" discussion section? What does this have to do with the PP? Moderator?