Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs
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Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-u-pay ... 00462.html
Norway and other state-run health systems drive hard bargains, and are willing to say no to costly therapy.
Good article. The way the US health care system is designed prices are kept high. This system is likely to stay in place for along time. For my variable portfolio I am looking to invest in a high performing health care fund. The funds I like are: Vanguard Health Care VGHCX , the Admiral ($50,000 min) one: VGHAX. Also like to consider the Health Care index fund and etf :Vanguard Health Care Index Fund Admiral Shares (VHCIX)- min $100,000, Vanguard Health Care ETF (VHT). The index fund and etf have a lower expense ratio. The first fund had been around since the 80s and has done really well. The etf may be the better choice...
Norway and other state-run health systems drive hard bargains, and are willing to say no to costly therapy.
Good article. The way the US health care system is designed prices are kept high. This system is likely to stay in place for along time. For my variable portfolio I am looking to invest in a high performing health care fund. The funds I like are: Vanguard Health Care VGHCX , the Admiral ($50,000 min) one: VGHAX. Also like to consider the Health Care index fund and etf :Vanguard Health Care Index Fund Admiral Shares (VHCIX)- min $100,000, Vanguard Health Care ETF (VHT). The index fund and etf have a lower expense ratio. The first fund had been around since the 80s and has done really well. The etf may be the better choice...
Last edited by lazyboy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Inside of me there are two dogs. One is mean and evil and the other is good and they fight each other all the time. When asked which one wins I answer, the one I feed the most.�
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Re: Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs
The reason drug prices are kept high in the U.S. is that pharmaceutical companies have very strong lobbies, not to mention that they practically own the FDA. You could argue that the U.S. is subsidizing pharmaceutical research which benefits all those other countries with price controls, but that's an effect of the above political clout - not the primary reason.
As long as this situation continues, buying a pharmaceutical stock is a decent bet.
As long as this situation continues, buying a pharmaceutical stock is a decent bet.
Re: Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs
The pharmaceutical lobby is undoubtedly strong, and I agree drugs are likely more expensive than they need to be. Still, I always find this topic interesting for a very common ideological inconsistency.
The system is certainly not perfect, but drug companies generally charge for their product around the world based on what people in the country in question can afford to pay. The US naturally pays much more for the same drug than Nigeria, which many people interpret as companies gouging wealthy countries. The fact that the low price of the drug in the poor country is below the sustainable price and that global sales should be considered as a whole gets glossed over. Cost redistribution = bad, and is something to be corrected by the government.
But flip the topic from drugs to health insurance, and many people change their tune and consider that as the only fair way to do it. Wealthy people should naturally pay more for the same product to make it affordable for everyone. Cost redistribution = good, and is something to be managed by the government.
It's almost as if people love redistribution of wealth when they're on the receiving end but resent it when they are not. Go figure.
The system is certainly not perfect, but drug companies generally charge for their product around the world based on what people in the country in question can afford to pay. The US naturally pays much more for the same drug than Nigeria, which many people interpret as companies gouging wealthy countries. The fact that the low price of the drug in the poor country is below the sustainable price and that global sales should be considered as a whole gets glossed over. Cost redistribution = bad, and is something to be corrected by the government.
But flip the topic from drugs to health insurance, and many people change their tune and consider that as the only fair way to do it. Wealthy people should naturally pay more for the same product to make it affordable for everyone. Cost redistribution = good, and is something to be managed by the government.
It's almost as if people love redistribution of wealth when they're on the receiving end but resent it when they are not. Go figure.
Re: Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs
Also, there was a law passed during the Bush II administration that prohibited the government from negotiating with drug companies.
So, whereas before, as a large buyer (Medicare), it could have negotiated prices downward, since then it can't do that.
So, whereas before, as a large buyer (Medicare), it could have negotiated prices downward, since then it can't do that.
Re: Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs
True but only to an extent. Drug prices are far lower in Canada (for example), because that country's medical system negotiated lower prices with manufacturers. It's why there are laws against ordering your medications from Canadian pharmacies - the big pharma lobbyists made sure you have no alternative but to pay the inflated U.S. prices.Tyler wrote: ...drug companies generally charge for their product around the world based on what people in the country in question can afford to pay.
The drug prices in the U.S. are not set by anything like the free market. It's monopoly pricing with the government's blessing, plain and simple. You can't have a free market where one party gets to set the price for a commodity that has no alternatives, and the other party is forced to pay that price and not permitted to haggle it down. That's Medicare, yes, but realize that Medicare is the primary driver of drug prices.
Incidentally, this situation is a big reason for the rise in insurance prices. Drugs (unfortunately) command a very large share of overall medical costs. Consider this for example: At a typical 3 month followup visit, a physician will write two or three prescriptions, each costing several hundred $$ per month (but $1-2K/month is not unusual, nor is more than 3 scripts). The physician gets somewhere between $50 and $200 for the visit. About once a year (or every 4th visit) they'll find an excuse to order lab tests and/or procedures that will cost, let's say, $2000. Do the math and tell me where the $$ is going!
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Re: Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs
+1. It's quite possible its a de facto cartel now. That would be an interesting legal angle to try. There's no logical reason it should take over a billion and 10 years just to get palliative lifestyle drugs approved (i.e. symptom treatment not cures) through three Phase trials. That's where the large drug markups come from. It's anti-trust and anti-competitive behavior.WiseOne wrote: The reason drug prices are kept high in the U.S. is that pharmaceutical companies have very strong lobbies, not to mention that they practically own the FDA. You could argue that the U.S. is subsidizing pharmaceutical research which benefits all those other countries with price controls, but that's an effect of the above political clout - not the primary reason.
We need separation between economy and state like you wouldn't believe.
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Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs
They only did that due to activist uproar and to improve their PR image. It wasn't a free market consumer response. Shareholder capitalism is not concerned with conscious capitalism.Tyler wrote: The system is certainly not perfect, but drug companies generally charge for their product around the world based on what people in the country in question can afford to pay. The US naturally pays much more for the same drug than Nigeria, which many people interpret as companies gouging wealthy countries. The fact that the low price of the drug in the poor country is below the sustainable price and that global sales should be considered as a whole gets glossed over. Cost redistribution = bad, and is something to be corrected by the government.
It's a behavioral bias. Losses hurt 2.5x more than the equivalent in terms of gains.It's almost as if people love redistribution of wealth when they're on the receiving end but resent it when they are not. Go figure.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs
Fortunately, passing legislation is only half the battle. The other half is enforcement. I'm sure there's bigger fish to fry for the USPS or Customs than worrying about [re]imported pharmaceuticals from Canada. BTW, did everyone know even Big Pharma offshores their drug manufacturing to India? They have interesting patent protections over there that is the reverse of the way the USA works.WiseOne wrote: True but only to an extent. Drug prices are far lower in Canada (for example), because that country's medical system negotiated lower prices with manufacturers. It's why there are laws against ordering your medications from Canadian pharmacies - the big pharma lobbyists made sure you have no alternative but to pay the inflated U.S. prices.
I get my drugs (without a prescription) overseas, thank you. The six-figure earning lobbyists can go fuck themselves since the laws they advocate for "the little people" don't apply to them by virture of their overpaid taxpayer-funded salaries.
I'm seriously thinking I should move to DC. Why bother to fight? Joining the frenzy is the path of least resistance.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
- MachineGhost
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Re: Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs
Lab companies, insurance companies and Big Pharma?WiseOne wrote: Incidentally, this situation is a big reason for the rise in insurance prices. Drugs (unfortunately) command a very large share of overall medical costs. Consider this for example: At a typical 3 month followup visit, a physician will write two or three prescriptions, each costing several hundred $$ per month (but $1-2K/month is not unusual, nor is more than 3 scripts). The physician gets somewhere between $50 and $200 for the visit. About once a year (or every 4th visit) they'll find an excuse to order lab tests and/or procedures that will cost, let's say, $2000. Do the math and tell me where the $$ is going!
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs
Would you mind elaborating on this?MachineGhost wrote: I get my drugs (without a prescription) overseas, thank you.
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Re: Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs
Granted that the high cost of drugs and other medical costs in the US, are for all the above reasons: Big Pharma, lobbies, Medicare laws under Bush 2, insurance companies, lack of a single payer system that most or all of the developed world has, etc, etc. ...Getting back to the original post- does it make sense to invest and profit from this trend that seems to favor this form of American monopoly? WiseOne indicated yes, it's a decent bet.
Inside of me there are two dogs. One is mean and evil and the other is good and they fight each other all the time. When asked which one wins I answer, the one I feed the most.�
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Re: Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs
Cheaper, easier and less hassle than dealing with an overbusy physician (if that lucky!) gatekeeper in an HMO filling in all those EMR fields. I don't like being in a submissive position and that is patient to doctor, unfortunately. At least in insurance networks.Pointedstick wrote: Would you mind elaborating on this?
I only buy from India or Mexico (sometimes Thailand but its been a long time) where prescriptions are not needed. And not lifestyle drugs (i.e. turgid crap like Viagra) since those are the ones where all the money is for counterfeit fraudsters. Stupid is as stupid does.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Re: Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs
I bought Vanguard Health Care because profits seem baked in longterm by the business/government/medical system. And the products and services are considered essential by most people. Personally, I'd prefer and vote for, a different system. But since its rigged this way I'll try to profit from it cognizant that one day I and loved ones could lose a fortune in future medical expenses.
Last edited by lazyboy on Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Inside of me there are two dogs. One is mean and evil and the other is good and they fight each other all the time. When asked which one wins I answer, the one I feed the most.�
Sitting Bull
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- MachineGhost
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Re: Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs
I like yours and WiseOne's thinking and I'm going to find a way to include it in my PP.lazyboy wrote: I bought Vanguard Health Care because profits seem baked in longterm by the business/government/medical system. And the products and services are considered essential by most people. Personally, I'd prefer and vote for, a different system. But since its rigged this way I'll try to profit from it cognizant that one day I and loved ones could lose a fortune in future medical expenses.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!