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Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:36 pm
by Reub
Any doubt that it's emissaries of the religion of peace? Dozens dead all over Paris. A hundred young hostages.

Maybe if we stick our heads in the sand they'll like us and they won't come here?

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:10 pm
by AdamA
Reub wrote:
Maybe if we stick our heads in the sand they'll like us and they won't come here?
What do you think we should do?
Simonjester wrote: i heard the Muslim immigrants are voting for a new french state motto

"veni vidi Vichy vici"

"I came; I saw; they collaborated; I conquered"

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:12 pm
by Pointedstick
Yikes, crazy. Hollande has closed the borders.

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:57 pm
by Pointedstick
AdamA wrote: What do you think we should do?
If there's any personally-applicable lesson to learn here, it's this: if they try it here, shoot back. Carry your guns. I'm wearing one right now and you should be too. Don't go down without a fight. Do your part to protect your society and your civilization.

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:55 pm
by Gosso
The Eagles of Death Metal, the so called "American Band" at the concert hall is a band that I have followed since their inception and would likely have attend their concert if it were in my city.  Craziness.

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:17 pm
by Libertarian666
Pointedstick wrote:
AdamA wrote: What do you think we should do?
If there's any personally-applicable lesson to learn here, it's this: if they try it here, shoot back. Carry your guns. I'm wearing one right now and you should be too. Don't go down without a fight. Do your part to protect your society and your civilization.
That's why they won't try it here, or if they do, they won't be very successful.
Unless it's in a "gun free zone", of course.  :(

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:20 pm
by dualstow
Gosso wrote: The Eagles of Death Metal, the so called "American Band" at the concert hall is a band that I have followed since their inception and would likely have attend their concert if it were in my city.  Craziness.
What so-called; they're from California.

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:53 pm
by clacy
Obama just told me that we can't rush to judge who was behind this, so I'm going to wait and see.

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:54 pm
by I Shrugged
Libertarian666 wrote:
Pointedstick wrote:
AdamA wrote: What do you think we should do?
If there's any personally-applicable lesson to learn here, it's this: if they try it here, shoot back. Carry your guns. I'm wearing one right now and you should be too. Don't go down without a fight. Do your part to protect your society and your civilization.
That's why they won't try it here, or if they do, they won't be very successful.
Unless it's in a "gun free zone", of course.  :(
I suppose in most states, rock concerts and sports stadia are gun free zones.

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:18 pm
by Gosso
dualstow wrote:
Gosso wrote: The Eagles of Death Metal, the so called "American Band" at the concert hall is a band that I have followed since their inception and would likely have attend their concert if it were in my city.  Craziness.
What so-called; they're from California.
I know, but from the media I have watched they were being referred to as just the "american rock band", or something along the lines of the "Eagles of Rock Music".

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:27 pm
by dualstow
Ah, I see.

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:51 am
by MediumTex
Reub wrote: Any doubt that it's emissaries of the religion of peace? Dozens dead all over Paris. A hundred young hostages.

Maybe if we stick our heads in the sand they'll like us and they won't come here?
Is someone proposing that we stick our heads in the sand?

Far from sticking our heads in the sand, didn't a U.S. drone just turn that guy who was cutting off people's heads last year into a pile of charred lunchmeat earlier this week?

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:36 am
by dualstow
It does some like just yesterday (It's been 2 years) that many of us were saying ISIS is none of our business and it's not "coming to our town" and nothing to worry about.
Now, we've already had two attacks in Paris alone.
Next stop, Times Square?
I'm glad we're better at thwarting attacks than France is, but how do you stop every single attempt?

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:16 am
by moda0306
dualstow wrote: It does some like just yesterday (It's been 2 years) that many of us were saying ISIS is none of our business and it's not "coming to our town" and nothing to worry about.
Now, we've already had two attacks in Paris alone.
Next stop, Times Square?
I'm glad we're better at thwarting attacks than France is, but how do you stop every single attempt?
Please link us to what "many of us" were actually saying. I don't think anyone thinks Isis to not a threat at all, nor that they couldn't possibly "Come to our town."  Of course they are "our business" to a degree.  The question is whether they are a catastrophic threat to the safety of our country (or Europe) worthy of engaging in permanent war with.

Application of soft power or sanctions is far, far different than a state of permanent war.

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:30 am
by ochotona
Pointedstick wrote:
AdamA wrote: What do you think we should do?
If there's any personally-applicable lesson to learn here, it's this: if they try it here, shoot back. Carry your guns. I'm wearing one right now and you should be too. Don't go down without a fight. Do your part to protect your society and your civilization.
These kinds of attacks don't work well in concealed carry states!

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:53 am
by dualstow
moda0306 wrote:
dualstow wrote: It does some like just yesterday (It's been 2 years) that many of us were saying ISIS is none of our business and it's not "coming to our town" and nothing to worry about.
Now, we've already had two attacks in Paris alone.
Next stop, Times Square?
I'm glad we're better at thwarting attacks than France is, but how do you stop every single attempt?
Please link us to what "many of us" were actually saying. I don't think anyone thinks Isis to not a threat at all, nor that they couldn't possibly "Come to our town."
~
I like how, in the process of calling me on quotes, you changed "are not" to "couldn't possibly." At least you wisely left that part out of the quotes.But anyway, here's the first example of what I was thinking of. Took about 6 seconds to find.

http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ot ... ghborhood/

I'm not going to comb through all the ISIS search results, just to show that my memory of two years ago is more accurate than yours from one post ago, Moda. But, if you want to look for yourself, I seem to remember such turns of phrase as "burn themselves out" or "will burn itself out."

And let me be clear: I did not mean for my post above to sound like an "I told you so." The same people who said that ISIS was not a big threat to the West are members that I consider to be friends, here. Hell, I may have even been one of them! That's why I said many of us and not "many of you." I'm just saying that it is rather startling, what strides ISIS has made since we first heard of them. At least, to me it's startling.

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:13 am
by moda0306
dualstow wrote:
moda0306 wrote:
dualstow wrote: It does some like just yesterday (It's been 2 years) that many of us were saying ISIS is none of our business and it's not "coming to our town" and nothing to worry about.
Now, we've already had two attacks in Paris alone.
Next stop, Times Square?
I'm glad we're better at thwarting attacks than France is, but how do you stop every single attempt?
Please link us to what "many of us" were actually saying. I don't think anyone thinks Isis to not a threat at all, nor that they couldn't possibly "Come to our town."
~
I like how, in the process of calling me on quotes, you changed "are not" to "couldn't possibly." At least you wisely left that part out of the quotes.But anyway, here's the first example of what I was thinking of. Took about 6 seconds to find.

http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ot ... ghborhood/

I'm not going to comb through all the ISIS search results, just to show that my memory of two years ago is more accurate than yours from one post ago, Moda. But, if you want to look for yourself, I seem to remember such turns of phrase as "burn themselves out" or "will burn itself out."

And let me be clear: I did not mean for my post above to sound like an "I told you so." The same people who said that ISIS was not a big threat to the West are members that I consider to be friends, here. Hell, I may have even been one of them! That's why I said many of us and not "many of you." I'm just saying that it is rather startling, what strides ISIS has made since we first heard of them. At least, to me it's startling.
Sorry for misquoting you. I wasn't trying to engage in hyperbole.

That link really shows no hard opinions on the matter.

The most dovish thing I think I've seen on this board about ISIS is that they are not a catastrophic threat to the US and we shouldn't use them as an excuse to engage in permanent war. I don't think I've seen anything more extreme than that.

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:19 am
by dualstow
Hey, I'm all for dovishness when the horse isn't already out of the barn.

Took a break from my soupmaking and found a quote from my beloved Jan Van (Goldmember avatar)
At some point Isis will self implode, you heard it here first!
http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ot ... y-isis/72/
Let's hope it's sooner rather than later, Jan.  ;)

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:25 am
by dualstow
Elsewhere-
(Clacy) Someone, somewhere has to stand up to these barbarians.  The US certainly can't do it alone, but there is NO WAY they can be defeated without the US's leadership (as well as money/weapons/etc).
By the way, Clacy nailed it more than anyone else on this forum. Early and often.

fnord, who is far and away the most helpful math guy on the forum, replied. And fnord, I envy you your pacifism, but looking back...I don't know. As bad as Iraq was, maybe turning away is not an option.


(fnord)Why is the US leadership required? Why do we need to defeat them?

Let's say they setup a crazy, behead-happy theocracy in western Iraq and eastern Syria, mostly composed of Sunnis.  Why is this our problem?  The US is running massive deficits.  Saudi Arabia has a budget surplus of tens to hundreds of billions of dollars a year. Why not let Saudi Arabia deal with them?  Germany has had budget surpluses recently in the billions - why not let them deal with it?  Both countries are much closer to Syria/Iraq than we are.

Why should we bankrupt our country further and impose massive debt on our children to try to force the population in the area in question to live under an oppressive government we pick rather than one they pick?
For the record, I agreed in several places about how Saudi Arabia should really step up. The only problem is that they don't do enough.

Edit: fixed quote tags.

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:26 am
by Fred
Reub wrote: Maybe if we stick our heads in the sand they'll like us and they won't come here?
If the choice is either to stick our heads in the sand or respond to this attack the way we did to the 9/11 attacks, I will take the first option.

Especially if this is the result of waging war on Isis...

http://www.fox8live.com/story/30428985/ ... ew-orleans

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:08 am
by Pointedstick
What we need to stop is the invade the world/invite the world insanity. One or the other, preferably both. But for Christ's sake, if we're going to bomb or attack a region of the world, we can't let their refugees into our country! Those are people who are going to be bitter and angry, avoid assimilating, and be a drain on the economy, and their kids will become gang members or domestic terrorists.

When it comes to ISIS, I think the USA has less to worry about then Europe because of the geographic distance, but it's clear that these lunatics want to blue us up too, they just haven't figured out a wood way yet. I propose a total ban on all immigration and visa issuance to Muslims and Arabs until ISIS is dead and gone, and a ramping up of concealed carry laws throughout the country, with federal pre-emption of gun-free zones. If the terrorists want to try a Mumbai/Paris-style attack here, let them eat bullets.

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:17 am
by dualstow
Pointedstick wrote: I propose a total ban on all immigration and visa issuance to Muslims and Arabs until ISIS is dead and gone,
It must suck to be a Muslim fleeing Assad, only to find yourself unwanted by a large group of people in your new homeland because of the actions of a few from your old homeland. But, the world is (still) unfair. This is the cruel reality we're living in.

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:39 am
by Pointedstick
Long-term, I think it would be in the west's interests to help the middle-eastern states stabilize and become nicer places to live so the substantial number of people living there don't turn to terrorism and flee their oppressive governments, civil wars, or political violence. Easier said than done, obviously.

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:31 am
by Libertarian666
Pointedstick wrote: Long-term, I think it would be in the west's interests to help the middle-eastern states stabilize and become nicer places to live so the substantial number of people living there don't turn to terrorism and flee their oppressive governments, civil wars, or political violence. Easier said than done, obviously.
Sure, but an obvious first step is for the US military to get out of there and stay out.

Re: Armageddon In Paris

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:03 am
by Jake
Days like today remind me of the article that Harry Browne wrote on September 12th, 2001.

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/browne2.html