Advice Needed re Large Stash of Cash

[stuper1]

An elderly friend came to me yesterday with a question.  She just discovered that her husband has a large stash of cash in the house ($30,000 in $100 bills).  He is quite frail and senile and not really capable of making decisions any longer.  She wants to deposit the money into their joint account at a credit union, but she is afraid there may be questions if she shows up with that much cash.  They also have a safe deposit box there.  Does anyone have any good advice for this situation?  I told her that I knew just the right people to ask about this, so don't let me down.  Thanks.

[stuper1]

There's a little more to the story that might be important.  This is a second marriage for both of them.  They've been married about 20 years.  She is an immigrant, and she has been here long enough to know that her dark skin and accent can make some situations more difficult than they should be.

Here's what she is afraid of.  She takes the money to the credit union, and they ask her where it came from.  She says that her husband has been saving it at home for many years, and she now wants to put it in the account.  They say "where is your husband?"  She tries to explain that he is old and senile (which is true), but because of her poor English they misunderstand and get suspicious (it happens).

She doesn't want her husband involved, not because she's trying to steal his money, but because she's afraid he will try to fight with her about putting it in the credit union, because he doesn't trust banks very much.  Based on where she found the money, she is pretty sure that he won't even notice that it's gone.  He really is very senile.

Is there any chance that the credit union is going to refuse her deposit without her husband being present?  It's bad enough walking into a bank with $30,000, but she certainly doesn't want to leave with that money still in her purse.  I will try to go with her to help.  But if anyone has any advice, I am all ears.  Thanks.

[Tortoise]

Why not just deposit the cash in several smaller amounts that wouldn't raise any annoying questions?

[Mountaineer]

Perhaps even buy several short term CDs of a thousand or two each over time.  Then reinvest the proceeds into one account as they mature if she wishes.  Ultimately, all the money could be in one place.  If only a thousand or two a month is invested, then it should not attract undue attention.

... F

[Pointedstick]

Why not just deposit the cash in several smaller amounts that wouldn't raise any annoying questions?

Because that's illegal (it's called "structuring") and if you do it badly, you can be caught and wind up in a lot of trouble.

[clacy]

Unfortunately we live in a world where depositing or possessing cash can get your assets seized and have the IRS show up at your house with guns drawn.

Frankly, I would be inclined to spend it down without researching it further. It may be worth $150 visit to a tax attorney.

[barrett]

Hey, shouldn't this be in the "Cash" section? 

I see that PS has already covered structuring. Some can be deposited as cash without raising flags, say in $1000 - $2000 amounts... just throwing out what I think are reasonable figures. I would also add that a lot of cash can be used just by paying for stuff like groceries, gas & some discretionary purchases. She could probably work through $1000 or so a month just by doing that. And there's nothing wrong with keeping some of it at home, at least for the short term.

I know at Chase Bank that it is against their rules to keep cash in a safe deposit box, but how are they really going to know? 25% in the safe deposit box, 25% used to pay for stuff, 25% deposited in cash, and 25% kept where her husband has been hiding it all along. This is the All Weather approach to dealing with a large cash stash.

[l82start]

this is going to sound radical but she could....
split the money into 4 equal parts, spend one part at the gold dealer.. open a vanguard account with another part, start a treasury direct account with the third... and make a deposit at the bank with the remainder.

[dualstow]

That's a really good question, and I don't know the answer. My first instinct would be to go to a trusted acquaintance who runs a business that uses a lot of paper cash. Like, the guy I buy beer from. After all, it's usually criminals who have that big of a stash in currency, and while I'm sure they know just what to do with it, we can't ask them.

I'd be inclined to go with stuper's spend-it-down plan, because 300 bills are easy enough to protect from deterioration. However, 100-dollar bills also attract attention. Not from the IRS, but everyone else. A pp'er could happily start by purchasing $9,000 in gold bullion. But, I don't know if that gets the elderly person in question anywhere.

This needs further study.
--------------
Edit: buy beer from. Thanks, Barrett. Beer was not intended to be a verb, and as far as I know it is not, unless you extend your hand and say "Beer me!" 

[Reub]

Safe deposit box should do it. It's done all the time. The only thing is she will need to have another name on the box in case she falls ill. Leave 5 G's in the house for liquidity. Open a simple savings or checking acct and deposit 2Gs a month. I can't imagine that it would call attention to itself. Are they really going after little old ladies nowadays?

[barrett]

My first instinct would be to go to a trusted acquaintance who runs a business that uses a lot of paper cash. Like, the guy I beer from.

Dualstow, Has "to beer" become a verb? If so, I really need to get out more. Had I realized as a youth that beering was so much fun, I would have beered more. I beer, you beer, he beers?

[Stewardship]

He didn't trust the bank, and apparently she doesn't either if she is worried about how they will respond to a perfectly legal transaction.  The bank isn't going to refuse the money.  They'll ask standard questions and fill out the CTR form and send it to the feds just like they do with all transactions over $10k.

I also find it notable that he saved that money for years without telling her about it.  That suggests to me that he also wanted her mitts off it.

My advice is for the wife to honor her husband's wishes at least until he dies or until there is a compelling reason to deviate from that.

[stuper1]

Stewardship,

You mentioned "standard questions".  Do you know what those questions are?  That's what I'm trying to figure out, to make sure she knows what to expect.

If you were brown with an accent, you might have a different take on authority figures, including bank officials.

If you had a child who was doing something stupid, which could have serious, negative, non-fixable consequences, wouldn't you try to stop them?  I'm not sure it's much different with an old, senile man.  She's a bit younger than him, and she takes very good care of him.  They don't have a lot of money.  She is 70 and still working at a menial, back-breaking job, because she thinks she needs to.  $30,000 is a lot of money to them.  I know she wouldn't even dream of taking it from him for herself.  I would feel terrible if they got robbed or the house burned down with the money inside.

[Reub]

Come on now! Let's not get carried away with the brown skin thing! Ok? Obama has heightened divisions in this country like never before. There are plenty of banks employing people with brown skins, if that's all she trusts. Let her find one of her own if she hates or fears white people.  It s sad that Obama and his friend Al Sharpton along with Univision have put this stuff in people's heads. Or is this really illegal money from a nefarious, off the books business and she knows that taxes were never paid on it?

[stuper1]

Reub,

Obama and Sharpton didn't put anything in her head.  Personal experience put it in her head.  If you don't think that prejudice is alive and well, then you're a bit slow.  More likely, you know it's alive and well, but you don't care.  Well, I do care.  She's a friend of mine.  I don't particularly like it when she's treated as a second class citizen, which by the way, she is, a U.S. citizen.  If you were in her shoes, you would have fought and clawed to come to this country also, unless you are a bit slow, because it's a lot better here than where she came from.

She doesn't take any government assistance.  She's 70 years old and still working a physically intensive job.  She's an awesome wife, taking great care of her infirm husband.  And you want to criticize because she's afraid of running afoul of who knows what stupid regulation when she and her husband have done nothing wrong.  Taxes were paid on the money when it was earned, and her slightly paranoid husband just preferred to keep his savings in cash.

[Reub]

So if she fears all white people then who is the prejudiced one? Is she so helpless that she can't walk into a bank and find a person with sufficient melanin to put her prejudices at ease?  How do you know that they paid the taxes on the money?  Because she told you so? Do you know whether me or my immigrant parents are/were victims of prejudice too? Come off of your high, elitist horse!

[Stewardship]

You mentioned "standard questions".  Do you know what those questions are?  That's what I'm trying to figure out, to make sure she knows what to expect.

Whatever questions the bank wants to ask to aid in filling out the CTR and determining whether a SAR needs to be filed for suspicious activity.  This includes questions about the source of funds.  But even if they decide to file a SAR, it just goes into a database that is accessible by multiple federal agencies for cross-referencing in investigations.  Having a SAR filed on you doesn't automatically mean that you're going to have your assets seized or feds kicking in your door.

If you were brown with an accent, you might have a different take on authority figures, including bank officials.

My wife is brown with an accent and she gets better treatment than me (a white male).  If this woman feels mistreated by authority figures, then it begs the question why is she so eager to hand them a pile of cash that her husband already didn't trust them with.  Authority figures can be a bigger risk to assets than robbers and house fires.

If you had a child who was doing something stupid, which could have serious, negative, non-fixable consequences, wouldn't you try to stop them?  I'm not sure it's much different with an old, senile man.  She's a bit younger than him, and she takes very good care of him.  They don't have a lot of money.  She is 70 and still working at a menial, back-breaking job, because she thinks she needs to.  $30,000 is a lot of money to them.  I know she wouldn't even dream of taking it from him for herself.

If I had a child who amassed a large sum of cash and had specific wishes on what happens with it, then I would certainly take their wishes into consideration.  Even more-so if it were my spouse with the mind of a child.

No one is advocating flushing the money down the toilet.  I don't see why granny would feel she needs to work herself to death if that money is under the mattress where her husband wants it as opposed to in the bank.

[I Shrugged]

Well the senility is a problem.  It's now up to her to manage the money as she sees fit.  Not many people are comfortable with having large sums of cash in their house.

[dualstow]

Well the senility is a problem.  It's now up to her to manage the money as she sees fit.  Not many people are comfortable with having large sums of cash in their house.

+1

[Stewardship]

Well the senility is a problem.  It's now up to her to manage the money as she sees fit.  Not many people are comfortable with having large sums of cash in their house.

Nor would everyone be comfortable walking into the bank with a large sum of cash that they found that a senile spouse had hidden.  Hence, my advice:

My advice is for the wife to honor her husband's wishes at least until he dies or until there is a compelling reason to deviate from that.

[WiseOne]

I suggest going to an attorney, explaining the situation, and see if they'll help present the situation to the bank.  Preferably the one who is handling estate planning, and who would probably already know the husband's state of health.  The bank may still file a form but at least they won't call the police and it's unlikely anything would come of it.  The only alternative is to keep the money and spend it down bit by bit.  Health aides and supplies for caring for someone with advanced dementia can really add up, and she will be glad to have the extra money around to pay for it.

BTW if there are health aides in the house, make very, very sure that they don't see where the stash is, and also don't allow them into the part of the house where she deals with financial matters.  Put locks on doors if necessary.  Frankly, a non-Chase safe deposit box sounds like a better option if she chooses to keep the cash.

And yes, why not buy a few gold coins at a trusted shop with part of the money...the husband might have liked that option, and I hear that's a great long-term investment :-)

[Reub]

Just be certain that it's a sufficiently brown skinned attorney.

[stuper1]

Reub,

Some of us grew out of being jerks in middle school.  Is this something that you're still working through, or maybe you are younger than I thought?

[MediumTex]

Just be certain that it's a sufficiently brown skinned attorney.

What does that mean?  Why would the attorney's skin color matter?  To the extent it did matter, wouldn't a white attorney be perceived as more useful in negotiating with what is presumably a group of white people at the bank?

The only situation I ever recall involving the specific need for a brown-skinned attorney was to assist Hunter S. Thompson's character in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

[Stewardship]

Just be certain that it's a sufficiently brown skinned attorney.

What does that mean?  Why would the attorney's skin color matter?

I suppose since "prejudice is alive and well" as stuper1 asserts, a brown-skinned attorney would be less likely to be prejudiced toward a browned-skinned client.