Statins and Arthritis

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MachineGhost
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by MachineGhost » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:34 pm

madbean2 wrote: I have been experiencing some unusual fatigue of late but don't know if Crestor is the cause or not. One problem I think they have in evaluating the side effects of statins is the nocebo effect. In some studies I've looked at the side effects reported were the same in the placebo group as they were in those taking the real thing. I guess the only way to tell would be to discontinue but then if I stop feeling fatigue is that a placebo effect?

I'm thinking of stopping after my latest prescription runs out which is in about a month, mainly because my doctor is tied to the idea of having me get a blood test and make an appointment every 3 months. Not gonna happen. I have avoided doctors like the plague for most of my life so there is no way I'm going to be making constant visits like this, especially when she makes 9:00 appointments and then shows up in the office at 10:00 with a waiting room full of people. I think she either hasn't read the latest FDA guidelines that say routine testing isn't necessary with statins any more or else she doesn't want to give up the steady revenue stream. Either way, I'm firing her.

And also for the record, I'm starting to think the lessening of my arthritis pain might have been due to a supplement I was taking called Celadrin because I stopped taking it and it seems to have returned to its prior level.
It sounds like its depleting your CoQ10 already since CoQ10 is required to produce ATP. :'(  As far as placebos go, no one really uses true inert sugar-pill placebos anymore.  They actually like to use inert "placebos" that incur the same side effects as on the drug to make the drug itself look better.  Such a racket.

I tried Celadrin once but it actually make my joints very, very painful, the opposite of the intended effect!
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
gizmo_rat
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by gizmo_rat » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:26 am

madbean2 wrote: I guess the only way to tell would be to discontinue but then if I stop feeling fatigue is that a placebo effect?
Yes it's really difficult, I found fatigue is very bound with emotional state, teasing out which is causing which is hard. I stopped and started statins 4 times before deciding that on balance they were probably the cause. As much as anything it was the effects noticeable to others that made my mind up.
That kind of deep fatigue makes me ratty and brittle, which is a no go with children. There's only so many times you can snap at your kids before thinking "bollocks to this, I'm not running a scientific experiment here".
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by screwtape » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:03 pm

MachineGhost wrote: I tried Celadrin once but it actually make my joints very, very painful, the opposite of the intended effect!
Just ordered my second bottle because I had a few pills left and felt better after taking them for a couple of days.

Maybe with joint pain you go from one placebo effect to another but that's better than nothing, I guess.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by MachineGhost » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:13 pm

There's a statin-iron connection.  Details here: http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ot ... #msg122487
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by MachineGhost » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:29 am

[quote=http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/11/us/pa ... heart.html]“While the preliminary data on both drugs are encouraging, there is no substitute for large randomized clinical trials,” he said. And, he added, the very low LDL levels are so unprecedented, that “it would be cavalier to assume that nothing could possibly go wrong.”

“We’ve not ever done anything like this with drugs before,” Dr. Avorn said.[/quote]

Generally, I'm liking this approach better than statins.  From my understanding, instead of targeting the cholesterol production mechanism, it focuses on reducing LDL by degrading it.  So in theory, it should lower the LDL particle quantity and not cholesterol per se.  A huge red flag is this is a monoclonal antibody of which other derived drugs have caused cancer.

It also looks like berberine already does the job: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781434/

Of course, this is still an intervention that doesn't fix the underlying problem of endothelial dysfunction (which is what allows lipoprotein particles to go into the artery wall and be retained, initiating the inflammation cascade, eventual heart attack and death).  However, reducing oxidized LDL by any mechanism will certainly help maintain endothelial integrity. 

I'm pretty sure what is going to happen is people will use these new drugs as a crutch-all not to adopt a healthier lifestyle and diet.  Why bother when you can just get an injection and no harm done or so they think? ::)
Last edited by MachineGhost on Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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