Statins and Arthritis

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MachineGhost
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by MachineGhost » Fri May 29, 2015 11:34 am

I found a study that evaluated the efficacy of ubiquinone:

[quote=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9816194]
Cyclical treatment with lovstatin markedly inhibited the mevalonate pathway, evidenced by reductions in both cholesterol and ubiquinone concentrations, by up to 43 and 49% of pretreatment values, respectively.
[/quote]

[quote=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9816194]
Treatment with ubiquinone was associated with reversal of lovastatin-induced myopathy, and its prophylactic administration prevented the development of this toxicity in a cohort of 56 patients.
[/quote]

[quote=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9816194]
The occurrence of myopathy, the dose-limiting toxicity, can be prevented by ubiquinone supplementation.
[/quote]

[quote=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9816194]
Oral ubiquinone supplementation for a week resulted in a 3-fold increase in serum concentrations (Table 3) from baseline concentrations of 1 .23 ± 0.78 p.g/ml to 4.58 ± 3.20 ug/ml (mean ± SD, n = 27). Following the administration of lovastatin for 7 days, ubiquinone concentrations decreased on average by 49% (to 1.88 ± 0.97 p.g/rnl, P = 0.001, Wilcoxon’s signed rank test) but still exceeded baseline measurements.
[/quote]

So a 63% success rate in preventing side effects with ubiquinone.  Not inspiring, but ubiquinone is poorly absorbed and they used 240mg a day.  Ubiquinol is at least 8x more bioavailable.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by pugchief » Sat May 30, 2015 9:44 am

MG, I thought you didn't trust government studies, especially those relating to healthcare...
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by MachineGhost » Sat May 30, 2015 10:55 am

pugchief wrote: MG, I thought you didn't trust government studies, especially those relating to healthcare...
What gave you the impression this study was a government study?
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by pugchief » Sat May 30, 2015 11:04 am

MachineGhost wrote:
pugchief wrote: MG, I thought you didn't trust government studies, especially those relating to healthcare...
What gave you the impression this study was a government study?
Idk, maybe the fact that the link was to nih.gov?
Any time past that I have tried to substantiate statements with links to CDC, NIH, AMA, ADA, xxx.gov, etc., I have been hand-waived by numerous people here. It seems the only govt stats anyone believes are from the St. Louis Fed.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by MachineGhost » Sat May 30, 2015 11:17 am

pugchief wrote: Idk, maybe the fact that the link was to nih.gov?
Any time past that I have tried to substantiate statements with links to CDC, NIH, AMA, ADA, xxx.gov, etc., I have been hand-waived by numerous people here. It seems the only govt stats anyone believes are from the St. Louis Fed.
NIH just hosts PubMed which provides abstracts and links to published studies.  That's a little different than the propaganda coming directly from the three lettered agencies.  In this case, there was no third-party home page for the study so I linked to the abstract on PubMed.

But I'm really tickled if you had actually tried to substantiate statements with government propaganda!  Poor guy. :D
Last edited by MachineGhost on Sat May 30, 2015 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by pugchief » Sat May 30, 2015 11:22 am

MachineGhost wrote: But I'm really tickled if you had actually tried to substantiate statements with government propaganda!  Poor guy. :D
;D Yeah, Gumby really blasted me once, early on. I quickly learned not to bother.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by dualstow » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:27 pm

Ok, MG. Start eviscerating.  ;)

[quote=cnn]A Food and Drug Administration advisory committee today recommended approval of a new type of experimental cholesterol-fighting drug that could be more potent and carry fewer side effects than statins, which are among the most prescribed drugs in the United States.

The agency will likely follow the advisory committee's advice when it decides whether to approve the drug, alirocumab (Praluent) from Sanofi SA and Regeneron Pharmaceuticals Inc., for patients later this summer.

On Wednesday, the advisory committee will discuss a second drug in the same class, evolocumab (Repatha) from Amgen Inc.[/quote]
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by Libertarian666 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:38 pm

dualstow wrote: Ok, MG. Start eviscerating.  ;)
cnn wrote:A Food and Drug Administration advisory committee today recommended approval of a new type of experimental cholesterol-fighting drug that could be more potent and carry fewer side effects than statins, which are among the most prescribed drugs in the United States.

The agency will likely follow the advisory committee's advice when it decides whether to approve the drug, alirocumab (Praluent) from Sanofi SA and Regeneron Pharmaceuticals Inc., for patients later this summer.

On Wednesday, the advisory committee will discuss a second drug in the same class, evolocumab (Repatha) from Amgen Inc.
Since cholesterol is a necessary component of our nervous system, and has NOT been proven to cause any illness other than possibly in some rare cases of a genetic disorder, this is just another attempt to make money by brainwashing people into thinking they need to take a harmful drug.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by Reub » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:33 pm

I'd wait about 20 years to see if it's really safe.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by MachineGhost » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:35 pm

dualstow wrote: Ok, MG. Start eviscerating.  ;)
cnn wrote:A Food and Drug Administration advisory committee today recommended approval of a new type of experimental cholesterol-fighting drug that could be more potent and carry fewer side effects than statins, which are among the most prescribed drugs in the United States.

The agency will likely follow the advisory committee's advice when it decides whether to approve the drug, alirocumab (Praluent) from Sanofi SA and Regeneron Pharmaceuticals Inc., for patients later this summer.

On Wednesday, the advisory committee will discuss a second drug in the same class, evolocumab (Repatha) from Amgen Inc.
It causes a decrease in LDL by forcing the liver to remove even more LDL from the blood than statins.  Remember, the carrier protein (apolipoprotein before cholesterol is on it, then called LDL) transports more than just cholesterol; it transports all the non-water soluble vitamins, fats, hormones, etc..  The less LDL you have, less your organs are gonna get any of the critical stuff needed for life, nevermind optimal health.

On the plus side it looks like it might bypass depleting CoQ10 which is the #1 toxic problem with statins.

I don't know if I've repeated it enough on this topic, but the problem is OXIDIZED cholesterol NOT cholesterol.  Getting rid of the latter is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by dualstow » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:07 pm

Reub wrote: I'd wait about 20 years to see if it's really safe.
Me, too. Or at least 5-10.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by screwtape » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:06 pm

gizmo_rat wrote: madbean

I was prescribed statins about a year ago, all was fine and they were effective at what they were supposed to do. After about 6 months I started to feel deep muscular fatigue (like when you overdo the exercise then take a hot bath) which massively impacted my ability to exercise.
I didn't really connect how I was feeling with the known potential side effects of statins, long story short it took me a couple more months of experimentation to work out the statins were probably responsible.
On my doctors advice I fiddled about with the dosage but I was getting the fatigue effects even on an 8th of the dosage. I stopped taking them entirely about 3 months ago and I'd say have only just about recovered my stamina. Obviously the underlying issue probably remains but I'm trying other means until my next bloodtest in a couple of months. At that time difficult choices may have to be made, hopefully not involving getting fired by my doctor :)

TLDR: Side effects may take months to develop and might not be as others describe them.

Hope the statins continue to work for you.
I have been experiencing some unusual fatigue of late but don't know if Crestor is the cause or not. One problem I think they have in evaluating the side effects of statins is the nocebo effect. In some studies I've looked at the side effects reported were the same in the placebo group as they were in those taking the real thing. I guess the only way to tell would be to discontinue but then if I stop feeling fatigue is that a placebo effect?

I'm thinking of stopping after my latest prescription runs out which is in about a month, mainly because my doctor is tied to the idea of having me get a blood test and make an appointment every 3 months. Not gonna happen. I have avoided doctors like the plague for most of my life so there is no way I'm going to be making constant visits like this, especially when she makes 9:00 appointments and then shows up in the office at 10:00 with a waiting room full of people. I think she either hasn't read the latest FDA guidelines that say routine testing isn't necessary with statins any more or else she doesn't want to give up the steady revenue stream. Either way, I'm firing her.

And also for the record, I'm starting to think the lessening of my arthritis pain might have been due to a supplement I was taking called Celadrin because I stopped taking it and it seems to have returned to its prior level.
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