Statins and Arthritis

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MachineGhost
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by MachineGhost » Wed May 20, 2015 7:21 pm

Libertarian666 wrote: I'm not sure what "cognitive heart failure" is, but other than that you're right on the money. Statins are the "killer app" of the pharmaceutical-industrial complex.
Lolz!  I had cognitive brain failure there.  I meant "congestive".  Since statins deplete your heart of CoQ10, its a guaranteed lock.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Wed May 20, 2015 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by MachineGhost » Wed May 20, 2015 7:23 pm

Reub wrote: So you've changed your opinion on aspirin,  MG?
No.  I was just trying to be helpful for people not into dietary supplements.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by screwtape » Tue May 26, 2015 7:39 pm

MachineGhost wrote:
madbean wrote: Okay, I will. What are your real credentials for giving this advice?
Continuing Education (not sponsored by Big Pharma).
Got so pissed off at the replies to this post that I actually deleted my account but I came back just to give my reply. Don't know how long I'll stay.

I'm very familiar with the case against statins. I might not have read as thoroughly as you or others have on the subject but I actually read most of Uffe Ravnskov's book as well as many other online articles and for many years I was convinced. Like I think I said, I have been fired by two doctors for not following their advice.

Despite diet and exercise including 2 fasting days per week for 2 years and losing 35 lbs to the point where my BMI is almost normal my total cholesterol continued to hover around 325. That's abnormally high in anybody's book and nothing I do seems to change it. I have no history of high cholesterol or heart disease in my family and a doctor recently told me that at age 65 I had the blood pressure of a teenage boy (110/70 by last measurement).

I went to a doctor for unrelated issues in January and got the usual recommendation to take a statin. I figured what the heck, might as well give it a try and see what happens.

I already described part of the results after 3 months - a reduction in total cholesterol from 325 to 205 and an anecdotal observation of arthritis relief in my back. And for the record, I already tried most of the things you suggested including aspirin and circumin. I thought circumin was helping for a while but it seemed to stop. A form of ibuprofen I can get from Canada that contains a muscle relaxer helps best but I don't like taking too much because Nsaids also have long-term side-effects. I've recently been using lidocaine patches which also help. I've also had physical therapy.

But in addition to the observation I already made about the benefit I thought I was receiving from Crestor I can also report two other things:

1.) I suffered from pulsating tinnitus in my ear for over a year and thought it was going to be a fact of life for me for the rest of my life. About two months after starting Crestor it just stopped in the middle of the night and has not come back. Google puslating tinnitus and you will see that one possible cause is hardening of the arteries. Crestor claims that it can actually reverse hardening of the arteries. Anectodal evidence only, to be sure, but there it is.

2.) Another symptom I had of hardening of the arteries was erectile dysfunction. More anecdotal evidence, to be sure, but I feel that condition has also improved.

Make of this what you want. If you want to continue to say that statins are only about enriching "Big Pharma" then go ahead but I'm not so convinced any more.
Last edited by screwtape on Tue May 26, 2015 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by MachineGhost » Tue May 26, 2015 8:06 pm

madbean2 wrote: Got so pissed off at the replies to this post that I actually deleted my account but I came back just to give my reply. Don't know how long I'll stay.
Wow, you need to take a chill pill!  We're all about helping each other in here.

Its great that you're receiving some short term benefits from a statin.  After all, they reduce inflammation and C-Reactive Protein as an unintended consequence.  And whenever you reduce inflammation and oxidation in the body, you're bound to improve things.  But it doesn't mean that the long-term negative side effects from the primary mechanism don't apply.  That was the point of our replies, however poorly in taste that you felt they were.

It reads to me like you have familial hypercholesterolemia.  That's a little different situation than wanting to drug literally everyone with a statin.  Even though it still stands that the only primary benefit statins have in terms of CVD outcomes is they reduce the risk of dying slightly and only after you've had your first heart attack.

I won't even recommend red yeast extract which is where statins were originally synthesized from because the primary mechanism is just simply too deadly in the long-term and it is fundamentally the wrong approach to solving the core issue of LDL oxidation.  Statins take a sledgehammer to what is a nail.

It seems to me you would benefit from looking more into primary anti-inflammatories which hopefully would have less scary side effects than statins.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Tue May 26, 2015 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by screwtape » Tue May 26, 2015 8:23 pm

MachineGhost wrote: I won't even recommend red yeast extract which is where statins were originally synthesized from

Wow, you need to take a chill pill! 
Any recommendations for a chill pill?

I took red yeast rice last year before my biometrics at work to see if I could get my numbers down and reduce my health insurance premium. Didn't work.

But I was just reading about it today and from what I have learned the FDA has banned all red yeast rice from the market if it contains anything more than trace amounts of lovastatin so most of what is sold doesn't have it. I read that you can still get the real thing if you look hard enough but if you want to go to all that effort might as well take lipitor and be sure of what you are getting.

And BTW, the cost of my Crestor is $10/day, paid fully by health insurance. It doesn't go generic until next year. If I was paying for it myself I definitely would NOT be doing it. In addition my doctor is requiring me to get a blood test and make an office visit every 3 months which the FDA no longer recommends for any statin drugs. She will be fired before my next office visit. If I continue to take Crestor it will be with another doctor.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by gizmo_rat » Wed May 27, 2015 9:31 am

madbean

I was prescribed statins about a year ago, all was fine and they were effective at what they were supposed to do. After about 6 months I started to feel deep muscular fatigue (like when you overdo the exercise then take a hot bath) which massively impacted my ability to exercise.
I didn't really connect how I was feeling with the known potential side effects of statins, long story short it took me a couple more months of experimentation to work out the statins were probably responsible.
On my doctors advice I fiddled about with the dosage but I was getting the fatigue effects even on an 8th of the dosage. I stopped taking them entirely about 3 months ago and I'd say have only just about recovered my stamina. Obviously the underlying issue probably remains but I'm trying other means until my next bloodtest in a couple of months. At that time difficult choices may have to be made, hopefully not involving getting fired by my doctor :)

TLDR: Side effects may take months to develop and might not be as others describe them.

Hope the statins continue to work for you.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by dualstow » Wed May 27, 2015 10:29 am

Stick around, madbean. It's all just words on a screen.
Any recommendations for a chill pill?
I *do* not recommend valerian root. Not only does it not work, but supposedly the smell is attractive to rats. That may turn out to be a myth, like copper tape vs garden slugs, but in any case, it stinks! And it will not help you chill that much.  :)
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by ochotona » Wed May 27, 2015 10:53 am

Statins have made a huge positive difference for me in terms of NAFLD (non-alcoholic fatty liver disease). I went from having NAFLD to not having NAFLD in a couple of years, by losing a bit of weight, taking Vitamin E, and a statin. Obviously, I can't tease apart which one helped, and how much it helped, but the net effect was good. I have not noticed any other side effects.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by sixdollars » Wed May 27, 2015 5:43 pm

ochotona wrote: Statins have made a huge positive difference for me in terms of NAFLD (non-alcoholic fatty liver disease). I went from having NAFLD to not having NAFLD in a couple of years, by losing a bit of weight, taking Vitamin E, and a statin. Obviously, I can't tease apart which one helped, and how much it helped, but the net effect was good. I have not noticed any other side effects.
I've read that this is a pretty common disorder in a lot of Americans.  If I had to bet on any one of those three factors you named, I'd bet on the first one having the largest contribution if you are currently overweight.  Increasing your intake of natural sources of choline (e.g. eggs, organ meats) may help with fatty liver tremendously - choline is an essential nutrient that's required for the transport of fat out of the liver.  Reducing your intake of excess fructose (e.g. sodas) tends to improve this as well.  Just my two cents
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by Reub » Wed May 27, 2015 9:14 pm

sixdollars wrote:
ochotona wrote: Statins have made a huge positive difference for me in terms of NAFLD (non-alcoholic fatty liver disease). I went from having NAFLD to not having NAFLD in a couple of years, by losing a bit of weight, taking Vitamin E, and a statin. Obviously, I can't tease apart which one helped, and how much it helped, but the net effect was good. I have not noticed any other side effects.
I've read that this is a pretty common disorder in a lot of Americans.  If I had to bet on any one of those three factors you named, I'd bet on the first one having the largest contribution if you are currently overweight.  Increasing your intake of natural sources of choline (e.g. eggs, organ meats) may help with fatty liver tremendously - choline is an essential nutrient that's required for the transport of fat out of the liver.  Reducing your intake of excess fructose (e.g. sodas) tends to improve this as well.  Just my two cents
Lecithin is a great source of choline as well as other vital components necessary for cellular membrane vitality. I take it as a supplement every day.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by MachineGhost » Wed May 27, 2015 11:37 pm

madbean2 wrote: But I was just reading about it today and from what I have learned the FDA has banned all red yeast rice from the market if it contains anything more than trace amounts of lovastatin so most of what is sold doesn't have it. I read that you can still get the real thing if you look hard enough but if you want to go to all that effort might as well take lipitor and be sure of what you are getting.
That's interesting and I didn't know that (or forgot it a very very long time ago).

So if you're going to stay on a statin at least be smart about it and pair it with ubiquinol.  I can't promise doing so will prevent all the negative side effects from the statin, but it seems logical that if you prevent your body from being depleted of CoQ10 by the statin in the first place, then the negative side effects may not ever show up.  Of course, this excludes the negative side effects from insufficient cholesterol, but there's no cure for that other than not to take a statin.  The ideal number is 220 where all cause mortality is the lowest.  I don't know if you can have insufficient cholesterol while near that number on a statin or it is only at those extremely risky <150 numbers.  But remember how statins work... they force the liver to unnaturally purge ALL cholesterol out of the body from everywhere, including the brain.  There's no selectivity and no discrimination.

And BTW, a lot of so-called "high cholesterol" is due to hypothyroidism.  Ignorant doctors aren't aware of the relationship.  Fixing the hypothyroidism will normalize cholesterol because the thyroid endproducts use LDL against infections.  This probably doesn't apply to familial hypercholesterolemia though (>300).
Last edited by MachineGhost on Wed May 27, 2015 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Statins and Arthritis

Post by MachineGhost » Wed May 27, 2015 11:55 pm

sixdollars wrote: I've read that this is a pretty common disorder in a lot of Americans.  If I had to bet on any one of those three factors you named, I'd bet on the first one having the largest contribution if you are currently overweight.  Increasing your intake of natural sources of choline (e.g. eggs, organ meats) may help with fatty liver tremendously - choline is an essential nutrient that's required for the transport of fat out of the liver.  Reducing your intake of excess fructose (e.g. sodas) tends to improve this as well.  Just my two cents
Avoid niacin too...  it's in all that fortification.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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