Designated Hitter

[bedraggled]

Tenn,

I must be lazy. Ball park diagrams must be available on the web. The large dimension probably tell that the home run was not a factor in early baseball. I will check Cleveland Municipal Stadium later. As that stadium was built in the Ruth era, the distant dimensions are confusing. The place held 81,000 attendees! Cleveland was a significant, prosperous place at one time

[Xan]

The Astrodome is in a sad situation. It's no longer used for anything. There isn't money for upkeep, so it deteriorates, and I'm not sure whether there's the money or the inclination to tear it down.

[Xan]

The World Series is broadcast on Fox.

[Xan]

Put up an antenna!

The only shame of it is that the Astros are in the wrong league. :-(

[bedraggled]

For my 493rd post, I thought I'd bring up Lou Gehrig who hit 493 home runs. If you check his career totals, he was productive through the 1938 season: 29 HR and 107 RBIs, very good for the early stages of dying.

Now for the complaining. Gehrig NEVER struck out 100 times in a season. Babe Ruth NEVER struck out 100 times in a season. Jimmy Foxx struck out 100 times twice in his career. None of the Athletics teammates, including Foxx, came close to 100 strikeouts and this was during the World Series years of 1929-1931, when the Yankees went on hiatus.

Ralph Kiner did strike out 109 times his rookie year but never again. Willie mays struck out 100 times once, at the end of his career. Ted Williams, Joe DiMaggio, Yogi Berra- never struck out 100 times in a season.

Everyone mentioned above were eminent power hitters.

The strike out era started with Mickey Mantle in the 1950s. Mantle, though, was one of the greatest bunters.

Based on the foregoing, is today's game of home run or strike out really baseball? And I don't see a whole lot of bunting unless the pitcher is up. Hit and run? That interferes with trying to hit the ball 800 feet.

Dare I suggest the game is boring? Oh my, contact hitting and two strike defensive hitting! Seen any of that lately? Why did Derek Jeter and Brett Gardner accumulate 100 K seasons? Is this the new definition of "contact hitter?' And Carl Yastrzemski, Modern Era, never had 100 Ks in his career. Carl was a big thumper. Apparently, Carl was concerned with making contact. Could making contact be an element of the "team player?"

BTW, Aaron Judge, with his 208 strike outs last year will improve and he just had left shoulder surgery. Might be fun to follow the Yankees again.

Happy Thanksgiving! Not cooking today allows this bit of whining. Enjoy!

[vnatale]

And in 1955, second year Detroit Tigers outfielder Al Kaline was being heckled by fans in the Yankee Stadium right field, field level seats

The taunt was: "Hey, Kaline, you're not half as good as Mantle."

Kaline's response was "Nobody is."

Keep in mind that Kaline hit .340 that year with 200 hits and 27 HRs- the batting average and hits were the league's best.

I saw Mantle during his decline. People who saw young Mantle said he was beyond. Must have been something to witness.

Trout is a good approximation. But unlike Mantle who played in the media capital of the world and on many World Championships, Trout plays on the west coast and I think he's only been in one post season series in his career. Unfortunately, the prospects do not look too bright for him being in any more for at least the next two seasons.

Vinny

[vnatale]

My current GF's ex-husband's dream was to see a game in every ballpark in the major leagues. Even though I personally have been to about 7 different parks, I am more of a football guy, so that is not even close to being on my bucket list. Just curious if any of you baseball guys have this goal. I hear it's a thing.

Off the charts baseball (Yankees) fan who has lived in New England (Rhode Island & Massachusetts) all my life. Been to a ton of games at Yankee Stadium. A lot at Fenway (still a dump after all their extensive renovations). I've been to two games in Baltimore (double-header), Red Sox / Mets 1st World Series game at Shea Stadium in 1986, one game at the Astrodome, one game in Philadelphia. Generally not interested in going to a game if the Yankees are not in it. And, love being surrounded by all that Yankees blue when at Yankee Stadium.

I would, though, have been to a ton of other parks in 1981 when I was on a month long bus tour of the United States. Unfortunately, major league baseball was on strike both before and after that month so did not see one major league game. Did see one minor league game in Kansas City.

A dream vacation week for me would be a week in Cleveland doing the following:

Seeing 3 NBA games (hopefully the Celtics in one of them)
Seeing 5 baseball games (hopefully Yankees are in three of them)
Four days at the Rock and Roll Museum

Vinny

[vnatale]

After reading all the posts here I see there are / were a few other baseball fans here!

And, I'm 100% for the designated hitter. I believe that the National League may be the only professional baseball league that does not use one?

And, looking at the winners of the All Star games / World Series in the last 10-15 years, it is fairly obvious that the American League is the superior league while the National League is the inferior league. Any time a "good" National League pitcher comes to play in the American League there is always concern expressed as to whether he'll be able to maintain that performance in the superior league.

Vinny

[Xan]

Are you allowed to live in MA and not be a BoSox fan?

If you do go to Cleveland (motto: hey, it's better than Detroit!) I highly recommend the pro football hall of fame in Canton (1 hour drive). One of the best museums I have ever been to.

Also has one of the best symphony orchestras in the world. [Edit: Cleveland, I mean, not Canton]

And the DH is still terrible: if you're swinging a bat, you need to be playing in the field, and vice versa. If that puts the NL at a disadvantage, then fine, at least they're actually playing baseball.

[Mountaineer]

Are you allowed to live in MA and not be a BoSox fan?

If you do go to Cleveland (motto: hey, it's better than Detroit!) I highly recommend the pro football hall of fame in Canton (1 hour drive). One of the best museums I have ever been to.

I went to my uncle's installation in the PFHOF Canton, just a few decades back .

[Mountaineer]

Are you allowed to live in MA and not be a BoSox fan?

If you do go to Cleveland (motto: hey, it's better than Detroit!) I highly recommend the pro football hall of fame in Canton (1 hour drive). One of the best museums I have ever been to.

I went to my uncle's installation in the PFHOF Canton, just a few decades back .

Who was your uncle?

Sam Huff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Huff

[vnatale]

Are you allowed to live in MA and not be a BoSox fan?

If you do go to Cleveland (motto: hey, it's better than Detroit!) I highly recommend the pro football hall of fame in Canton (1 hour drive). One of the best museums I have ever been to.

I am THE Yankees fan in many people's eyes around here!

Since I have only seen one football game since the famous Namath / Unitas Super Bowl game 51 years ago the football Hall of Fame would not be of interest. I do live only 45 minutes from the NBA Hall of Fame / Museum, which is of great interest. And, have been to the Baseball Hall of Fame nearly 10 times.

Vinny

[vnatale]

Are you allowed to live in MA and not be a BoSox fan?

If you do go to Cleveland (motto: hey, it's better than Detroit!) I highly recommend the pro football hall of fame in Canton (1 hour drive). One of the best museums I have ever been to.

Also has one of the best symphony orchestras in the world. [Edit: Cleveland, I mean, not Canton]

And the DH is still terrible: if you're swinging a bat, you need to be playing in the field, and vice versa. If that puts the NL at a disadvantage, then fine, at least they're actually playing baseball.

Why do not then football players stay on the field for ALL plays? When we were kids playing pickup football we always played both ways.

Vinny

[vnatale]

Are you allowed to live in MA and not be a BoSox fan?

If you do go to Cleveland (motto: hey, it's better than Detroit!) I highly recommend the pro football hall of fame in Canton (1 hour drive). One of the best museums I have ever been to.

I went to my uncle's installation in the PFHOF Canton, just a few decades back .

Who was your uncle?

Sam Huff

I do remember him. I was actually a football fan for a few years in the mid-sixties. And, for some reason, in Rhode Island, we'd get New York Giants football games on TV(and radio). The Patriots then were in the AFL, which was considered somewhat of a minor league compared to the NFL and prior to any of the Super Bowls.

Vinny

[vnatale]

Are you allowed to live in MA and not be a BoSox fan?

If you do go to Cleveland (motto: hey, it's better than Detroit!) I highly recommend the pro football hall of fame in Canton (1 hour drive). One of the best museums I have ever been to.

I am an independent in many way! I choose to root for who I want to root for. That said, I am a Boston Celtics fan.

But I am THE Yankees fan in many people's eyes around here!

And, I always get comments when I'm wearing both Celtics and Yankees clothing at the same time!

Since I have only seen one football game since the famous Namath / Unitas Super Bowl game 51 years ago the football Hall of Fame would not be of interest. I do live only 45 minutes from the NBA Hall of Fame / Museum, which is of great interest. And, have been to the Baseball Hall of Fame nearly 10 times.

Vinny

[vnatale]

Are you allowed to live in MA and not be a BoSox fan?

If you do go to Cleveland (motto: hey, it's better than Detroit!) I highly recommend the pro football hall of fame in Canton (1 hour drive). One of the best museums I have ever been to.

Also has one of the best symphony orchestras in the world. [Edit: Cleveland, I mean, not Canton]

And the DH is still terrible: if you're swinging a bat, you need to be playing in the field, and vice versa. If that puts the NL at a disadvantage, then fine, at least they're actually playing baseball.

Why do not then football players stay on the field for ALL plays? When we were kids playing pickup football we always played both ways.

Vinny

Pro football is just a little rougher and more strenuous than 5th grade touch football in the street.

To keep the analogy. Once you become a professional baseball player, being a pitcher is way more demanding than on the none-professional level Therefore, all the focus on the professional level is on pitching, with the hitting aspect being left behind.

Vinny

[vnatale]

Are you allowed to live in MA and not be a BoSox fan?

If you do go to Cleveland (motto: hey, it's better than Detroit!) I highly recommend the pro football hall of fame in Canton (1 hour drive). One of the best museums I have ever been to.

Also has one of the best symphony orchestras in the world. [Edit: Cleveland, I mean, not Canton]

And the DH is still terrible: if you're swinging a bat, you need to be playing in the field, and vice versa. If that puts the NL at a disadvantage, then fine, at least they're actually playing baseball.

Why do not then football players stay on the field for ALL plays? When we were kids playing pickup football we always played both ways.

Vinny

Pro football is just a little rougher and more strenuous than 5th grade touch football in the street.

To keep the analogy. Once you become a professional baseball player, being a pitcher is way more demanding than on the none-professional level Therefore, all the focus on the professional level is on pitching, with the hitting aspect being left behind.

Vinny

Yes, but just bc you pitch doesn't mean you don't have the energy or ability to swing a bat once every 3 innings. After 8 downs on offense, it would be tough to keep up with the other team then on defense.

You are overlooking the part wherein if you are a starting pitcher you are only going to be in one out of five games and, only, on the average, be in 2/3's of those games. So, at best you are going to get about 60 at bats a season. And, the relievers would only get a handful. Therefore, pitchers are in no way on an equal playing level when it comes to position players who focus some of their practice on defense but probably 90% on offense. Pitchers probably spend 99% of their practice time on pitching, leaving a tiny 1%, if that, for hitting practice.

It's just silly to have pitchers in a batting order.

Do National League fans really get excited / pay money to see a pitcher hit?

The quality of baseball went way up in the American League with the advent of the designated hitter as you no longer had the 8th hitter trying to get a walk to be on base so the pitcher could attempt a sacrifice bunt. You had the height of dullsville for not an insignificant portion (22%) of your offensive lineup.



Vinny

[Xan]

Dullsville is having 9 sluggers waiting to hit a homerun. No double switches. No strategy.

Dullsville is aging hitters (note: NOT baseball players) who no longer have the skills to play in the field unfairly extending their careers.

None of your points are valid because they apply evenly to both teams. Or should, anyway. Do I pay to see a pitcher bat? Yes! Because, for one, I pay for baseball players to play baseball, not for hitters to hit and pitchers to pitch. And because some pitchers ARE good at hitting, and that talent should be rewarded, and because when a pitcher does get a hit or hit a homerun or something, it's just the best.

[vnatale]

Dullsville is having 9 sluggers waiting to hit a homerun. No double switches. No strategy.

Dullsville is aging hitters (note: NOT baseball players) who no longer have the skills to play in the field unfairly extending their careers.

None of your points are valid because they apply evenly to both teams. Or should, anyway. Do I pay to see a pitcher bat? Yes! Because, for one, I pay for baseball players to play baseball, not for hitters to hit and pitchers to pitch. And because some pitchers ARE good at hitting, and that talent should be rewarded, and because when a pitcher does get a hit or hit a homerun or something, it's just the best.

Pitchers are just a totally different breed of baseball player. We have regularly seen position players change positions in a game / during their careers. It is rare that we see a position player pitch or a pitcher anywhere in the field except for pitching. In the game of baseball a pitcher is an EXTREME specialist. Pitching only. NO hitting!

I think I know enough about football to ask if I am correct about this question. In professional football (or even in college) does the kicker do anything else but kick? Does he also regularly play either offense or defense? Forgive the ignorance of a question asked by someone who has seen exactly one football game on any level in any way in the last 51 years.

Vinny

[Xan]

I don't understand the football argument. Do you really want to have a separate offense and defense in baseball? You'd certainly have better hitting and better defense. But that isn't baseball. Why go down that road at all?

[vnatale]

I don't understand the football argument. Do you really want to have a separate offense and defense in baseball? You'd certainly have better hitting and better defense. But that isn't baseball. Why go down that road at all?

Not saying that at all. Just saying that in the case of the pitchers there some similarity to football.

As a professional baseball player you are in one of two camps - you are either a pitcher or you are a position player.

The main role of a position is to hit and play defense. But never pitch. The main role of a pitcher is to pitch and he should never be seen with a bat in his hands.

Vinny

[Kriegsspiel]

I don't understand the football argument. Do you really want to have a separate offense and defense in baseball? You'd certainly have better hitting and better defense. But that isn't baseball. Why go down that road at all?

I recently heard about a form of basketball that girls played in the midwest until it lost popularity. It was 3 on 3, but 3 girls only played on the offensive half court, and the other 3 played defense, and they couldn't cross half court. It sounds kinda neat but I couldn't find any videos of it.

[vnatale]

I don't understand the football argument. Do you really want to have a separate offense and defense in baseball? You'd certainly have better hitting and better defense. But that isn't baseball. Why go down that road at all?

I recently heard about a form of basketball that girls played in the midwest until it lost popularity. It was 3 on 3, but 3 girls only played on the offensive half court, and the other 3 played defense, and they couldn't cross half court. It sounds kinda neat but I couldn't find any videos of it.

I remember reading that in the old days - possibly 60s, or even earlier, certain amount of the girls on the team were not allowed to go over the half court line, similar to what you are describing. But it was my understanding that that was the rules for girls basketball EVERYWHERE, not just in the Midwest.

This looks like it is addressing what we each have in mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-on-six_basketball.

Vinny

[Kriegsspiel]

I don't understand the football argument. Do you really want to have a separate offense and defense in baseball? You'd certainly have better hitting and better defense. But that isn't baseball. Why go down that road at all?

I recently heard about a form of basketball that girls played in the midwest until it lost popularity. It was 3 on 3, but 3 girls only played on the offensive half court, and the other 3 played defense, and they couldn't cross half court. It sounds kinda neat but I couldn't find any videos of it.

I remember reading that in the old days - possibly 60s, or even earlier, certain amount of the girls on the team were not allowed to go over the half court line, similar to what you are describing. But it was my understanding that that was the rules for girls basketball EVERYWHERE, not just in the Midwest.

This looks like it is addressing what we each have in mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-on-six_basketball.

Vinny

Yea that was it.

"Beginning in 1958 the Office of Civil Rights started looking at banning six-on-six high school girls basketball."

[bedraggled]

Vinny,

I've argued against the DH previously.


TennPaGa is a great contributor to this thread.

IT's getting late but I'll be contributing more in a day or2.

Looks like Xan and I are on the same page re the DH.

Cheers.