Designated Hitter

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bedraggled
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by bedraggled » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:56 pm

Warming up with the following:

Yankees pitchers Whitey Ford and Fritz Peterson had the following comments:

Peterson: the hardest I ever threw was 86 mph,

Ford: if I were being scouted today, they never would have signed me- too slow.

In Yankee Stadium history, the 2 pitchers who had the best ERAs were (1) Ford, (2) Peterson.

Today's pitchers break down @ 95+ mph.  And, maybe, fast ain't necessarily pitching.  Might be called throwing.  "Hey, wait!  It's the 4th inning.  Get the bullpen up!" 

This is baseball?

More soon.

Cheers, and thanks, Tenn.
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by bedraggled » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:28 am

Nothing like dredging up an old thread. It's been 2 years for this one!

I went to the Mets' minor league/ spring training facility to see the 'A' level minor league team. (This was my second minor league game ever I saw the Binghampton Bees in 1995, also Mets organization). Low level minor league ball is fun. The hitting is not crisp. Nothing pulled and only long, lazy fly balls and all kinda nice.

Well, I saw, once again, the modern iteration of baseball. Ninety minutes were consumed getting through the first 2 innings. In the 3rd inning, the 4th pitcher came into the game AND there was a big conference on the pitchers mound- again in the 3rd inning! The umpire strolled out and they still lingered a few seconds. I informed my brother, who brought his grand kids, the game may end at midnight. We left 20 minutes later. Fairness demands I mention that the game was low minor league, so teaching is in order but....

The pitchers threw 90-95 mph. Where are the slower throwers?

All-in-all, it was fun and astounding.

Mel Stottlemyre routinely threw two hour games and often shorter. Bob Gibson tossed a 1 hour, 22 minute shutout in 1968. (I believe that's to the minute).

At $6 per ticket, I had a great time, though. I still miss the original Yankee Stadium.

Next topic: the All-Star game home run derby.
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by Xan » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:26 pm

I think it's only been one year and change, bedraggled.

Your "where are the slower throwers" question brought to mind this article I'd read recently:
https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/07/19/new-y ... tball-rate
Basically, the traditional idea that most pitches should be fastballs may be on the way out.
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:18 am

Well shit, I must have been ahead of the curve back in I was catching in HS. My friend had an absolutely wicked curveball, so that's what I had him throw most of the time. Especially when we had two strikes, I'd have him throw a curve into the dirt that they'd inevitably swing at. I wonder how his elbow feels now.
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by bedraggled » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:48 pm

Kriegsspiel,

I immediately thought of your friend's arm at the end of the first line of your post. Elbows can hurt. Tennis elbow on the inside and golfer's elbow on the outside.

Xan,

Great story on the current thoughts re fastballs.

I do not see much baseball lately but it's fun following Aaron Judge on the web. This brings me to my next bit of whining.

I heard several years ago that the All Star Game home run derby damaged the mechanics of at least several hitters for 10-14 games after.
Aaron Judge came back from the HR derby and went 3 for 26 with many pop-ups. He appears to be back in form. Is there any benefit to this HR derby? I understand baseball is losing its following- the derby ain't helping. That moat at the "new" Yankee Stadium probably is adding to the problem.

Another thought on the All Star game. In 1955, Ted Williams told Mickey Mantle while in the dugout during the game that in the first several at bats in a game Teddy Ball Game swung at the top half of the ball and in the late innings he swung at the bottom half for the long ball/home run possibility. Williams asked Mantle what Mantle did. Mantle had no idea what Williams was talking about but got home and as Mickey said "I went 0 for 30, or something like that."

Do we conclude the All Star game is troublesome, and without a solution regardless of the era?

There is a 1955 Al Kaline/Mickey Mantle story for next time.

Thanks to TennPaGa for keeping this thread on life support.
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:13 pm

MangoMan wrote:IDK why, but every time this thread appears on the unread topics list, I still keep reading it as Designated Hitler. Does this count as Godwin's Law? :-\
Typically, one’s presuppositions impact what one hears and sees. For example, two people can see or hear the exact same thing and arrive at two different conclusions. Could that be the case re your seeing Hitler in a line of very similar letters? Just a thought.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by bedraggled » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:30 pm

And in 1955, second year Detroit Tigers outfielder Al Kaline was being heckled by fans in the Yankee Stadium right field, field level seats

The taunt was: "Hey, Kaline, you're not half as good as Mantle."

Kaline's response was "Nobody is."

Keep in mind that Kaline hit .340 that year with 200 hits and 27 HRs- the batting average and hits were the league's best.

I saw Mantle during his decline. People who saw young Mantle said he was beyond. Must have been something to witness.
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by bedraggled » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:45 pm

Tenn, et al,

I might be mistaken but it seems the hard throwers are breaking down a lot.

Could it be poor health?

Here's a story about durability from the early 1960s.

When Juan Marichal was a rookie on the Giants he lost a 15 inning shutout to 43 year old Warren Spahn of the Braves, final score: 1-0. Giants manager Herman Franks approached Marichal in the dugout in the 13th inning. Marichal yelled "get away from me. You're not taking me out before that old man." Both threw complete games.

Both pitchers had long, healthy careers.

Now, Yankees pitchers Mel Stottlemyre and Fritz Peterson, from the 1960s and 1970s, threw huge quantities of inning, 280+ innings routinely, with one year at 303 innings pitched. Both pitchers had their shoulders blow.
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by bedraggled » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:13 pm

I heard that when Johnny Sain was pitching coach for the Atlanta Braves in the mid- 1990s, Sain would help a 95 mph thrower slow to 91 mph. The pitcher could often control the pitch better and hit the corners, shutting down the hitter. Must be nice to be a respected pitching coach.

Tenn,
You are correct about going all-out. Does "all-out" destroy careers? Would be nice to see a remedy to this problem.
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by bedraggled » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:47 pm

Ok, now, a bit of the esoteric. I just had my 466th post, which was the deepest distance in feet in Yankee Stadium, just to the left of the monuments and the 463 FT. sign. They had the flag pole and loud speaker out there, too, by the monuments.

I understand the Polo Grounds was 490 FT. to center and Cleveland Municipal was at least 490 FT. to center.

Just thought you should know.
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by bedraggled » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:36 am

Tenn,

Your resources are impressive. The Polo Grounds diagram tells us that the Willie Mays catch of Dick Wertz's moon blast was about 445 feet from home plate. I thought the ball travelled 480 feet. That info suggests Mays and Wertz are/were mere mortals. Mays is still alive and, I believe, living in the Bronx, therefore the "are/were" reference.

When Lou Brock was a rookie with the Cubs, he homered into the left centerfield bleachers against the Mets. Casey Stengel told his team just before the next day's game that they should appreciate Brock's blast as they wouldn't see anything like that again. Of course, Brock homered to the same place that day. Both homers were in the 465-475 feet range. Stengel knew his baseball as he started playing at the Polo Grounds around the time of WWI, 1914 +/-. For whatever reason, Brock stole bases in his career and skipped the home runs. Those 2 weekend bombs in 1963 confuse me.
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by bedraggled » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:43 am

Tenn,

I must be lazy. Ball park diagrams must be available on the web. The large dimension probably tell that the home run was not a factor in early baseball. I will check Cleveland Municipal Stadium later. As that stadium was built in the Ruth era, the distant dimensions are confusing. The place held 81,000 attendees! Cleveland was a significant, prosperous place at one time
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by Xan » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:48 pm

The Astrodome is in a sad situation. It's no longer used for anything. There isn't money for upkeep, so it deteriorates, and I'm not sure whether there's the money or the inclination to tear it down.
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by Xan » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:17 am

The World Series is broadcast on Fox.
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by Xan » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:21 pm

Put up an antenna!

The only shame of it is that the Astros are in the wrong league. :-(
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by bedraggled » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:06 am

For my 493rd post, I thought I'd bring up Lou Gehrig who hit 493 home runs. If you check his career totals, he was productive through the 1938 season: 29 HR and 107 RBIs, very good for the early stages of dying.

Now for the complaining. Gehrig NEVER struck out 100 times in a season. Babe Ruth NEVER struck out 100 times in a season. Jimmy Foxx struck out 100 times twice in his career. None of the Athletics teammates, including Foxx, came close to 100 strikeouts and this was during the World Series years of 1929-1931, when the Yankees went on hiatus.

Ralph Kiner did strike out 109 times his rookie year but never again. Willie mays struck out 100 times once, at the end of his career. Ted Williams, Joe DiMaggio, Yogi Berra- never struck out 100 times in a season.

Everyone mentioned above were eminent power hitters.

The strike out era started with Mickey Mantle in the 1950s. Mantle, though, was one of the greatest bunters.

Based on the foregoing, is today's game of home run or strike out really baseball? And I don't see a whole lot of bunting unless the pitcher is up. Hit and run? That interferes with trying to hit the ball 800 feet.

Dare I suggest the game is boring? Oh my, contact hitting and two strike defensive hitting! Seen any of that lately? Why did Derek Jeter and Brett Gardner accumulate 100 K seasons? Is this the new definition of "contact hitter?' And Carl Yastrzemski, Modern Era, never had 100 Ks in his career. Carl was a big thumper. Apparently, Carl was concerned with making contact. Could making contact be an element of the "team player?"

BTW, Aaron Judge, with his 208 strike outs last year will improve and he just had left shoulder surgery. Might be fun to follow the Yankees again.

Happy Thanksgiving! Not cooking today allows this bit of whining. Enjoy!
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by vnatale » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:28 pm

bedraggled wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:30 pm
And in 1955, second year Detroit Tigers outfielder Al Kaline was being heckled by fans in the Yankee Stadium right field, field level seats

The taunt was: "Hey, Kaline, you're not half as good as Mantle."

Kaline's response was "Nobody is."

Keep in mind that Kaline hit .340 that year with 200 hits and 27 HRs- the batting average and hits were the league's best.

I saw Mantle during his decline. People who saw young Mantle said he was beyond. Must have been something to witness.
Trout is a good approximation. But unlike Mantle who played in the media capital of the world and on many World Championships, Trout plays on the west coast and I think he's only been in one post season series in his career. Unfortunately, the prospects do not look too bright for him being in any more for at least the next two seasons.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by vnatale » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:38 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:31 am
My current GF's ex-husband's dream was to see a game in every ballpark in the major leagues. Even though I personally have been to about 7 different parks, I am more of a football guy, so that is not even close to being on my bucket list. Just curious if any of you baseball guys have this goal. I hear it's a thing.
Off the charts baseball (Yankees) fan who has lived in New England (Rhode Island & Massachusetts) all my life. Been to a ton of games at Yankee Stadium. A lot at Fenway (still a dump after all their extensive renovations). I've been to two games in Baltimore (double-header), Red Sox / Mets 1st World Series game at Shea Stadium in 1986, one game at the Astrodome, one game in Philadelphia. Generally not interested in going to a game if the Yankees are not in it. And, love being surrounded by all that Yankees blue when at Yankee Stadium.

I would, though, have been to a ton of other parks in 1981 when I was on a month long bus tour of the United States. Unfortunately, major league baseball was on strike both before and after that month so did not see one major league game. Did see one minor league game in Kansas City.

A dream vacation week for me would be a week in Cleveland doing the following:

Seeing 3 NBA games (hopefully the Celtics in one of them)
Seeing 5 baseball games (hopefully Yankees are in three of them)
Four days at the Rock and Roll Museum

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by vnatale » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:43 pm

After reading all the posts here I see there are / were a few other baseball fans here!

And, I'm 100% for the designated hitter. I believe that the National League may be the only professional baseball league that does not use one?

And, looking at the winners of the All Star games / World Series in the last 10-15 years, it is fairly obvious that the American League is the superior league while the National League is the inferior league. Any time a "good" National League pitcher comes to play in the American League there is always concern expressed as to whether he'll be able to maintain that performance in the superior league.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by Xan » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:10 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:02 pm
Are you allowed to live in MA and not be a BoSox fan?

If you do go to Cleveland (motto: hey, it's better than Detroit!) I highly recommend the pro football hall of fame in Canton (1 hour drive). One of the best museums I have ever been to.
Also has one of the best symphony orchestras in the world. [Edit: Cleveland, I mean, not Canton]

And the DH is still terrible: if you're swinging a bat, you need to be playing in the field, and vice versa. If that puts the NL at a disadvantage, then fine, at least they're actually playing baseball.
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:26 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:02 pm
Are you allowed to live in MA and not be a BoSox fan?

If you do go to Cleveland (motto: hey, it's better than Detroit!) I highly recommend the pro football hall of fame in Canton (1 hour drive). One of the best museums I have ever been to.
I went to my uncle's installation in the PFHOF Canton, just a few decades back ;) .
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:34 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:28 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:26 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:02 pm
Are you allowed to live in MA and not be a BoSox fan?

If you do go to Cleveland (motto: hey, it's better than Detroit!) I highly recommend the pro football hall of fame in Canton (1 hour drive). One of the best museums I have ever been to.
I went to my uncle's installation in the PFHOF Canton, just a few decades back ;) .
Who was your uncle?
Sam Huff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Huff
Last edited by Mountaineer on Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by vnatale » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:56 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:02 pm
Are you allowed to live in MA and not be a BoSox fan?

If you do go to Cleveland (motto: hey, it's better than Detroit!) I highly recommend the pro football hall of fame in Canton (1 hour drive). One of the best museums I have ever been to.
I am THE Yankees fan in many people's eyes around here!

Since I have only seen one football game since the famous Namath / Unitas Super Bowl game 51 years ago the football Hall of Fame would not be of interest. I do live only 45 minutes from the NBA Hall of Fame / Museum, which is of great interest. And, have been to the Baseball Hall of Fame nearly 10 times.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by vnatale » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:57 pm

Xan wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:10 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:02 pm
Are you allowed to live in MA and not be a BoSox fan?

If you do go to Cleveland (motto: hey, it's better than Detroit!) I highly recommend the pro football hall of fame in Canton (1 hour drive). One of the best museums I have ever been to.
Also has one of the best symphony orchestras in the world. [Edit: Cleveland, I mean, not Canton]

And the DH is still terrible: if you're swinging a bat, you need to be playing in the field, and vice versa. If that puts the NL at a disadvantage, then fine, at least they're actually playing baseball.
Why do not then football players stay on the field for ALL plays? When we were kids playing pickup football we always played both ways.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Designated Hitter

Post by vnatale » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:59 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:34 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:28 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:26 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:02 pm
Are you allowed to live in MA and not be a BoSox fan?

If you do go to Cleveland (motto: hey, it's better than Detroit!) I highly recommend the pro football hall of fame in Canton (1 hour drive). One of the best museums I have ever been to.
I went to my uncle's installation in the PFHOF Canton, just a few decades back ;) .
Who was your uncle?
Sam Huff
I do remember him. I was actually a football fan for a few years in the mid-sixties. And, for some reason, in Rhode Island, we'd get New York Giants football games on TV(and radio). The Patriots then were in the AFL, which was considered somewhat of a minor league compared to the NFL and prior to any of the Super Bowls.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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