Help me choose a secondary computer

[Pointedstick]

Wrong on the architectural level and wrong on the user-facing level. Try a recent Linux mint or Ubuntu sometime. You may be shocked by how well they work.

I was definitely referring to the user-facing level.  And I have tried all the latest Ubuntu and Mint derivatives, but am still not impressed.  I'm always left wondering...  is this all there is?  Isn't there anything more?  I'm bored, what's to do?

This is the attitude of a gadget enthusiast, not a normal user. An operating system is not a toy or an entertainment machine; it's a system to facilitate your doing what you want to do. How well it facilitates that--in terms of its speed, reliability, user-friendliness, consistency of interface, compatibility with software, ease of upgrading, customizability, etc--is really all that matters. Linux certainly isn't perfect, and it falls down compared to Windows 8 in the software and ease of upgrading categories

Essentially, they're just all trying to be Windows clones without the ease of use, bloat or app ecosystem -- keep in mind I don't use 8.1, so my frame of reference is more old school with 7/XP Pro x64 where things made more sense.  I can't recommend 8.1 either -- it's a Japanese beast mutated by nuclear radiation!

And yet that's what you'll get if you buy a Windows laptop today. That's my point--Linux is the lesser of two evils if you buy a PC today. Windows 7 was just fine, pretty good even, and Windows 10 may follow in its footsteps. But 8 is a real stinker.

And of course, an Apple laptop is going to be better than either one--but it will probably cost more compared to sorts of bottom-of-the-barrel laptops we're discussing here.

[MachineGhost]

If you are going with Windows, why not just wait til later this year when Windows 10 comes out? I think it is universally accepted that 8 sucks, just like Vista did, but 7 is awesome.

I wouldn't say awesome.  The control panel sucks donkey balls.  It's like when Microsoft HTMLed all up Microsoft Money turning a desktop application into a confusing webpage-like program.

[MachineGhost]

That's a pretty minor gripe. Just switch the view to 'small icons' and it's almost like the old days.

Ehhhhh, still not quite like the old days.  I like my control panel to look like Windows 3.1.  Linux still has that going for it.

[Pointedstick]

That's a pretty minor gripe. Just switch the view to 'small icons' and it's almost like the old days.

Ehhhhh, still not quite like the old days.  I like my control panel to look like Windows 3.1.  Linux still has that going for it.

The similarity is breathtaking!

[MachineGhost]

They look more similar than compared to crap Windows 7 has become!

[Libertarian666]

Part of the attraction of the Stream was the price, not really the aesthetics.  She doesn't necessarily want the latest / greatest / coolest thing.  And so she is afraid that the Stream might be nice now, but a piece of junk in a couple years.

Plus we don't really have the $1000+ to put into a new Macbook.

EDIT: Mrs. TPG says "I thought that board you spend so much time on was all about being careful with money!  I'd actually be upset if you spent that much on something I don't need!"

I like MangoMan's advice (though she really does want a laptop and not a desktop).  To that end, she was checking out refurbished Dell Latitudes on ebay earlier this morning (~ $190), and was attracted to these as well.

I have been buying 17" Dell Inspirons for quite awhile now. My 8 year-old one still works fine, I've installed Linux on my 5 year old one but haven't had time to play with it much, and my new one is my main software development machine. They are reasonably inexpensive and last a long time, contrary to what some Mac fanatics might suggest.

[dualstow]

EDIT: Mrs. TPG says "I thought that board you spend so much time on was all about being careful with money! 

LOL. Didn't see that before tech quoted it.

[vnatale]

Part of the attraction of the Stream was the price, not really the aesthetics.  She doesn't necessarily want the latest / greatest / coolest thing.  And so she is afraid that the Stream might be nice now, but a piece of junk in a couple years.

Plus we don't really have the $1000+ to put into a new Macbook.

EDIT: Mrs. TPG says "I thought that board you spend so much time on was all about being careful with money!  I'd actually be upset if you spent that much on something I don't need!"

I like MangoMan's advice (though she really does want a laptop and not a desktop).  To that end, she was checking out refurbished Dell Latitudes on ebay earlier this morning (~ $190), and was attracted to these as well.

I just finished reading all 37 highly entertaining posts in this topic. But I never read a concluding one of what you actually decided to do? What did you do??!!!

And, I second this by XAN: "Except that Apple has a terrible track record of abandoning not-very-old hardware. Very quickly, your used Mac won't be able to upgrade to the latest OS, and very quickly after that you won't be getting security updates for the OS you can run."

Where is the cost efficiency of (over) paying for Apple hardware that has operating systems on them that cannot be upgraded thereby rendering certain applications no longer being able to be used?

That is something in the Windows operating system world that is not frequently encountered.

Vinny

[Smith1776]

Currently running a MacBook Pro for dev work. School recommended a UNIX based system for programming courses. My previous experience with Linux was a little dicey, as the lack of commercial support was a big barrier. I imagine things have improved in the interim.

When this MacBook Pro kicks the bucket, I'm getting a PC and the Linux + Windows combo the go ahead. Apple's prices are insane.

[dualstow]

.
...
School recommended a UNIX based system for programming courses.
...
When this MacBook Pro kicks the bucket, I'm getting a PC and the Linux + Windows combo the go ahead. Apple's prices are insane.

I know the rest of the world has (and needs) laptops, but a Mac mini is pretty affordable. I’m on my second one, although the first never died. (I want to put Linux on it someday). Using the same Compaq monitor I bought for the first unit over 10 years ago.

[Smith1776]

.
...
School recommended a UNIX based system for programming courses.
...
When this MacBook Pro kicks the bucket, I'm getting a PC and the Linux + Windows combo the go ahead. Apple's prices are insane.

I know the rest of the world has (and needs) laptops, but a Mac mini is pretty affordable. I’m on my second one, although the first never died. (I want to put Linux on it someday). Using the same Compaq monitor I bought for the first unit over 10 years ago.

The Mac mini is so endearing! I had a G4 model way back when.

I wouldn’t hesitate to get another one.

I was also thinking of getting a cheap chromebook as a “throw around” computer.

I don’t know off the top of my head how much programming stuff can be done on a chromebook though.

[dualstow]

I don’t know off the top of my head how much programming stuff can be done on a chromebook though.

I had a “craptop” that I installed GalliumOS on. Gallium is meant to be installed on old Chromebooks and is kind of neat. Alas, I couldn’t even get wi-fi working Even after buying a special dongle. To be fair, though, that was on an HP notebook meant for Windows and the hardware didn’t want any Linuxy stuff coursing through its veins.

Anyway, if you get a Chromebook and end up hating it, maybe try GalliumOS.

[Kriegsspiel]

I was also thinking of getting a cheap chromebook as a “throw around” computer.

I don’t know off the top of my head how much programming stuff can be done on a chromebook though.

I've also thought about trying out Linux on my Chromebook, but there's so many goddamn versions of Linux it gets a bit overwh...

I had a “craptop” that I installed GalliumOS on. Gallium is meant to be installed on old Chromebooks and is kind of neat.

Anyway, if you get a Chromebook and end up hating it, maybe try GalliumOS.

[Smith1776]

Holy crap tom cruise looks so different there.

Still looks damn good for his age these days though.

I wonder how much he spends on getting work done on his appearance.

[Mountaineer]

I was also thinking of getting a cheap chromebook as a “throw around” computer.

I don’t know off the top of my head how much programming stuff can be done on a chromebook though.

I've also thought about trying out Linux on my Chromebook, but there's so many goddamn versions of Linux it gets a bit overwh...

I had a “craptop” that I installed GalliumOS on. Gallium is meant to be installed on old Chromebooks and is kind of neat.

Anyway, if you get a Chromebook and end up hating it, maybe try GalliumOS.

That is my favorite movie. Came out almost 34 years ago! Other favorites, Twelve O'Clock High, Shane. Sorry for the thread diversion.

[Mountaineer]

Currently running a MacBook Pro for dev work. School recommended a UNIX based system for programming courses. My previous experience with Linux was a little dicey, as the lack of commercial support was a big barrier. I imagine things have improved in the interim.

When this MacBook Pro kicks the bucket, I'm getting a PC and the Linux + Windows combo the go ahead. Apple's prices are insane.

Stick with a MacBook Pro. I have a mid-2009 MBP that I upped the memory to the max 8 GB and put in 1 TB SSD several years ago. Still works great. I also have a 2018 MBP that I bought in a weak moment since the 2009 OS could not go past El Capitan - which I subsequently decided is probably, practically speaking, a non-issue for another year or two. Stay with the MacBook Pro, then you won't need secondary, tertiary or replacement crapware running a "great when it works, horrible when it does not OS" every few years. YMMV

[dualstow]

Stay with the MacBook Pro, then you won't need secondary, tertiary or replacement crapware running a "great when it works, horrible when it does not OS" every few years. YMMV

I agree with that, although I’ve never really been smart enough or motivated enough to handle linux for long. I think it’s like having a British car. If you like to tinker, it may be worth it.

However, even Neal Stephenson, linux advocate and author of “in the beginning, there was the command line...” appended that text online with a brief note that his opinion had changed since Apple operating systems went Unix-based. Now he likes Apple computers.

[Smith1776]

Currently running a MacBook Pro for dev work. School recommended a UNIX based system for programming courses. My previous experience with Linux was a little dicey, as the lack of commercial support was a big barrier. I imagine things have improved in the interim.

When this MacBook Pro kicks the bucket, I'm getting a PC and the Linux + Windows combo the go ahead. Apple's prices are insane.

Stick with a MacBook Pro. I have a mid-2009 MBP that I upped the memory to the max 8 GB and put in 1 TB SSD several years ago. Still works great. I also have a 2018 MBP that I bought in a weak moment since the 2009 OS could not go past El Capitan - which I subsequently decided is probably, practically speaking, a non-issue for another year or two. Stay with the MacBook Pro, then you won't need secondary, tertiary or replacement crapware running a "great when it works, horrible when it does not OS" every few years. YMMV

The Mac lifespan and resale value is pretty damn good I must admit. My best friend bought one of the original MacBooks when they came out in 2006. He used that for a solid 11 years. He then got a 2015 MacBook Pro because the 2016 models had the keyboard issues.

I really enjoy a lot of the attention to detail that Apple puts into their machines. They've also got nice balance between power and portability.

As far as having a commercially supported UNIX-based operating system is concerned, I lament they're the only game in town. It's definitely reflected in their prices!

[Smith1776]

https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/le ... aj-8h82Kv8

Guys.... it's just... SO.... CHEAP.

MUST RESIST.

(Cheap for CANADIAN dollars that is...)

[dualstow]

Wow, that really is cheap.
US$130

[shekels]

Just a FYI, If you use Firefox.
Firefox attacks: Homeland Security urges all users to update browsers immediately in rare warning

https://www.fastcompany.com/90450626/fi ... re-warning

[dualstow]

Just a FYI, If you use Firefox.
Firefox attacks: Homeland Security urges all users to update browsers immediately in rare warning

https://www.fastcompany.com/90450626/fi ... re-warning

Good to know.
Interesting that the link says Mac users but then, as you wrote, it's for all users.

I was hoping the update would stop it freezing, but no luck.
I found instructions, followed them, no joy.

[Kriegsspiel]

Article about Chromebooks from back in 2014.

"The key thing to notice is that products improve more rapidly than consumer needs expand. This means that while the incumbent product may have once been subpar, over time it becomes “too good” for most customers, offering features they don’t need yet charging for them anyways. Meanwhile, the new entrant has an inferior product, but at a much lower price, and as its product improves – again, more rapidly than consumer needs – it begins to peel away customers from the incumbent by virtue of its lower price. Eventually it becomes good enough for nearly all of the consumers, leaving the incumbent high and dry.

Like I said, Chromebooks fit this pattern perfectly"

Chromebooks are great if you want something that's simple as fuck and just runs the Chrome browser.

[dualstow]

Interesting. If I didn’t have an ipad mini (and a Brydge keyboard), a Chromebook would probably be my sofa computer. My nieces like them well enough.

ADDED: maybe I should try a Chromebox, the desktop version.
https://wiki.galliumos.org/Hardware_Compatibility