Fats and Health

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MachineGhost
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by MachineGhost » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:29 pm

dragoncar wrote: MG, you've done a ton of research on this.  I've heard that canola oil is maybe the best mainstream oil you're going to find, if you are picking the best of bad choices.  Agree/disagree?
Disagree.  It's refined to death at lofty pizza oven temperatures, has too much oxidized Omega-6 damaged by the refining, may contain toxic erucic acid.  Stick to unrefined, genuine olive oil.
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by Benko » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:59 pm

MachineGhost wrote:
dragoncar wrote: MG, you've done a ton of research on this.  I've heard that canola oil is maybe the best mainstream oil you're going to find, if you are picking the best of bad choices.  Agree/disagree?
Disagree.  It's refined to death at lofty pizza oven temperatures, has too much oxidized Omega-6 damaged by the refining, may contain toxic erucic acid.  Stick to unrefined, genuine olive oil.
Agree.  But that still leaves what to use for cooking:  I believe you can only use good olive oil at low temp and perhaps medium temps.  Plus there are some things that don't taste good with olive oil taste. 

I would suspect that butter might be good for many people.  I can't use butter (I have food allergy to dairy including butter) so I just use "regular" coconut oil (nutiva)  or the kind without the coconut taste (Jarrow makes some).    Other thoughts  MT?
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by MachineGhost » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:21 pm

Benko wrote: I would suspect that butter might be good for many people.  I can't use butter (I have food allergy to dairy including butter) so I just use "regular" coconut oil (nutiva)  or the kind without the coconut taste (Jarrow makes some).    Other thoughts  MT?
I use EVOO for all cooking and baking.  It has enough antioxidants to be okay against the heat.  So long as you don't reuse it, the antioxidant depletion is nothing to worry about.  Finding what is called light olive oil with no taste that is also 100% pure is a real problem nowadays, though.  I think [refined] coconut oil, red palm oil, grass-fed ghee, grass-fed butter, non-hydrogenated lard, animal fat, etc. are all good to use for cooking and baking if you can handle them.  I'm not one of them.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

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Re: Fats and Health

Post by Mark Leavy » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:38 pm

dragoncar wrote: MG, you've done a ton of research on this.  I've heard that canola oil is maybe the best mainstream oil you're going to find, if you are picking the best of bad choices.  Agree/disagree?
I'm not MG, but I'll pile on to his very sound answer.  Just for fun.

There is no such thing as a "canola" plant.  Canola oil is rapeseed oil.  But, clearly, no one will buy something called rapeseed oil and feed it to their children.  Some brilliant marketeer contracted the phrase "Canada Oil" into canola.  And thus a star was born.

Rapeseed oil has a long use in the US as an industrial lubricant.  Cheap, light machine oil.  You wouldn't use it for food as it [used to be] poisonous.  That was a serious loss of profitability - considering the large amount of cheap oil you can get from rapeseed.  Science to the rescue.  After decades of selective breeding and hybridization, rapeseed is no longer deemed to be poisonous.

Probably.  Maybe...

Pretty non biased wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:52 am

sunnykmr152 wrote: Eating a lot of saturated fat can increase the cholesterol in your blood. High levels of cholesterol can increase your risk of heart disease, which includes heart attack and strokes.
Hi Sunny.  Welcome to the board.

The posters here are, by and large, extremely well read, disciplined, experienced and successful.

When someone on this board says something that doesn't agree with your worldview - you would do well to think, "hey... these very smart people have mentioned something that doesn't agree with my worldview.  I wonder if they know something I don't?"

Just a thought.  And again, welcome to the board, and happy investing.
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by gizmo_rat » Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:09 am

MachineGhost wrote: I think [refined] coconut oil... are all good to use.
Typo or have I missed a twist in the debate ? I thought that that refining was doing nasty things to oils and fats to disguise rancidity, so to be avoided if possible.
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by pugchief » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:11 am

gizmo_rat wrote:
MachineGhost wrote: I think [refined] coconut oil... are all good to use.
Typo or have I missed a twist in the debate ? I thought that that refining was doing nasty things to oils and fats to disguise rancidity, so to be avoided if possible.
There is so much conflicting information on this topic, both here and elsewhere, it is very difficult to decide what to believe.
Mark Leavy wrote:
sunnykmr152 wrote:
Eating a lot of saturated fat can increase the cholesterol in your blood. High levels of cholesterol can increase your risk of heart disease, which includes heart attack and strokes.
The posters here are, by and large, extremely well read, disciplined, experienced and successful.

When someone on this board says something that doesn't agree with your worldview - you would do well to think, "hey... these very smart people have mentioned something that doesn't agree with my worldview.  I wonder if they know something I don't?"
Truer word may never have been spoken. But that doesn't mean that everything said here should be taken as the gospel either. Due diligence is always required, whether researching investing or health. Or put another way, YMMV.
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by MachineGhost » Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:20 am

gizmo_rat wrote: Typo or have I missed a twist in the debate ? I thought that that refining was doing nasty things to oils and fats to disguise rancidity, so to be avoided if possible.
Oh in the case of coconut oil, I'm talking about gentle refining to get rid of the coconut taste.  You have to be on the ball and inquire with the companies about their processing as many are just cashing in and using moldy coconuts just sitting around the warehouse and not caring a whit about their processing temperatures.  I can confirm Nutiva brand does it right for EVCO.  Tropical Traditions is also safe for refined EVCO/CO.

I think you're missing the point though that refining oil at pizza oven temperatures damages heat sensitive oils (Omega-3/Omega-6) which are not saturated.  So perhaps you can nuke saturated fats and not worry about it, but I you have to ask yourself: Is doing so natural?  Is doing so healthy?  Where in natuare does biology eat nuked saturated fats short of after a Bambi-style forest fire?

Image

I don't agree with a large majority of the cold uses, of course.  But the majority of people that look into this topic aren't hip to the dangers of excess Omega-6 per se, just the oxidization of it.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by MachineGhost » Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:44 am

pugchief wrote: There is so much conflicting information on this topic, both here and elsewhere, it is very difficult to decide what to believe.
You have to follow the money trail so you can see who is funding the propaganda mouthpieces.  A poignant example would be Coke, Pepsi, GM, Kraft, etc. funding the American Dietectic Association (oh I'm sorry these jokers now think they're nutrition experts so they've renamed themselves to the "Academy of Nutrition and Dietectics" and are actively trying to pass nutritionist licensing laws favorable only themselves).  There is no objectivity in America -- everyone is a crony capitalist to one degree or another.  Even me, although I have no financial interests in Big Farma, Big Pharma, junk food, dietary supplements or the sickcare system so I'm very relatively objective.  And I care about my health as a #1 priority, not making a profit for myself, my family, my company, my cronies, my alumni network, my community or suppporting all the fragile, tenuous egos involved in public policy bureaucracy (I'm sure sophie can relate to that one!).

I've never said that saturated fats are pro-healthy.  My anecdotal experience indicates otherwise.  But not being heathly is not the same thing as being unhealthy or dangerous.  The body is far more complex and context dependent than a simple universal "eat x and get y disease" shtick.  The dietary saturated fat/cholesterol lipid hypothesis has no evidence that stands up to objective scrutiny**.  Study the history of Ancel Keys and all the pieces will fall into place.

** Propaganda mouthpieces, undergraduates, journalists, publish or perish non-tenured academics doing meta-analysis of previously flawed studies and conflict-of-interest studies all declaring that "x causes y disease" are simply not credible.  Unfortunately, the vast majority of published "scientific evidence" is now of this type.  The real problem is a dearth of critical thinking skills, lazyness and a lack of time.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by dragoncar » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:04 am

Why does everyone mention that canola is made from rapeseed? The name of the plant is never used in packaging, so it's not really germane to the discussion.  I can only conclude that it's included as FUD. 
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:11 am

dragoncar wrote: Why does everyone mention that canola is made from rapeseed? The name of the plant is never used in packaging, so it's not really germane to the discussion.  I can only conclude that it's included as FUD.
I use it to show that it is not a new oil, but it has a long history in industrial uses.  The canola oil brand was created to distance the oil from it's historical use as a commonly known industrial lubricant.  If you want to read about the development of the oil for it's food use, it helps to do web searches using the name it has had for most of history.
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by MachineGhost » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:35 am

dragoncar wrote: Why does everyone mention that canola is made from rapeseed? The name of the plant is never used in packaging, so it's not really germane to the discussion.  I can only conclude that it's included as FUD.
It's because mustard gas is derived from the erucic acid in rapeseed oil.  So there was a marketing fiction problem when trying to cash in on the vegetable oil fad.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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