Fats and Health

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Mark Leavy
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by Mark Leavy » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:50 am

MachineGhost wrote:
Mark Leavy wrote: "Plaque" is the accumulation of calcium in the arteries.  Nothing at all to do with saturated fat.  Very very much to do with vitamin K2.
The first part is rather out of date and incorrect.  Get up to speed:

http://www.sabiosciences.com/pathway.ph ... erogenesis
Thank you for the pointer MG.  That was a good article.  It will take me a few days to digest it.
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by pugchief » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:40 am

MachineGhost wrote:
pugchief wrote: I, personally had the opposite experience. I switched from canola oil to coconut oil for cooking [supposed benefits from MCT, maybe reverse the alzheimer's my GF claims I suffer from, too, lol] and saw my LDL elevate to borderline problematic.
You can just use MCT oil and skip all the coconut fat.
Could you recommend something specific? Thanks.
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by Xan » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:21 am

Mark Leavy wrote:Thank you for the pointer MG.  That was a good article.  It will take me a few days to digest it.
You don't want to digest it too quickly and get an insulin spike.
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by MachineGhost » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:54 am

pugchief wrote: Could you recommend something specific? Thanks.
Sure thing!  https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson ... -ml-liquid

If you have any kind of subclinical fungus or yeast infection, ketones will feed it as they metabolize ketones directly for energy.  So any adverse reactions to MCT Oil may be indicative of that.  I'm one of those people that get killer MSG-like headaches from coconut oil.  MCT Oil would probably kill me or make me kill myself.
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by Pointedstick » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:59 am

Wikipedia claims that coconut oil is a good source of MCTs. Is that wrong? Personally, coconut oil doesn't seem to have any negative effect on me. I grease my cast iron skillets with it every day. If I don't feel any adverse health effects from it, what's better about this MCT oil?
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by pugchief » Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:59 am

Pointedstick wrote: Wikipedia claims that coconut oil is a good source of MCTs. Is that wrong? Personally, coconut oil doesn't seem to have any negative effect on me. I grease my cast iron skillets with it every day. If I don't feel any adverse health effects from it, what's better about this MCT oil?
Coconut oil is indeed a rich source of MCTs. But it is also a virtually 100% saturated fat. For those of us that still believe saturated fats are unhealthy, tropical oils should probably be avoided.

MG, the oil in your link is made from coconut and palm kernel oil, and is 100% saturated fat. Can you recommend one without the saturated fat? otherwise, one might as well just stick with organic coconut oil.
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by l82start » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:12 am

i have tried both coconut oil and MTC, and enjoyed the results from both, coconut oil in its semi solid state is pretty darn tasty, but results in lots of weird looks from family and friends if you are seen eating a spoonful straight from the jar  :-[

the brand of MTC i tried is https://www.bulletproofexec.com/bulletp ... d-mct-oil/
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by Pointedstick » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:34 am

pugchief wrote: Coconut oil is indeed a rich source of MCTs. But it is also a virtually 100% saturated fat. For those of us that still believe saturated fats are unhealthy, tropical oils should probably be avoided.
That's the rub, I guess. What's the status of this? I remember reading some pretty convincing stuff back when Gumby was around that made me rethink my terror of saturated fats. Is that still considered true, or is the bleeding edge of nutrition back to the mainstream position on saturated fats?
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by pugchief » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:50 am

Pointedstick wrote:
pugchief wrote: Coconut oil is indeed a rich source of MCTs. But it is also a virtually 100% saturated fat. For those of us that still believe saturated fats are unhealthy, tropical oils should probably be avoided.
That's the rub, I guess. What's the status of this? I remember reading some pretty convincing stuff back when Gumby was around that made me rethink my terror of saturated fats. Is that still considered true, or is the bleeding edge of nutrition back to the mainstream position on saturated fats?
I would refer you back to reply #6 in this thread. There is much conflicting data in this arena.
http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ot ... #msg106069
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by MachineGhost » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:19 pm

pugchief wrote: Coconut oil is indeed a rich source of MCTs. But it is also a virtually 100% saturated fat. For those of us that still believe saturated fats are unhealthy, tropical oils should probably be avoided.

MG, the oil in your link is made from coconut and palm kernel oil, and is 100% saturated fat. Can you recommend one without the saturated fat? otherwise, one might as well just stick with organic coconut oil.
No, that's an oxymoron as the MCT components in coconut/palm oil are all saturated.  There are many subtypes of saturated fats.  If you still buy the cholesterol lipid-saturated fat hypothesis malarky**, then the saturated fat subtypes that raise LDL levels are largely myristic, secondarily palmetic which are in animal fats and tropical oils.  The antibacterial component of coconut oil is in the 47% by weight lauric acid and is sold as a saturated-fat free extract called monolaurin: http://www.vitacost.com/health-from-the ... capsules-1
I believe lauric acid/monolaurin is one of the reasons why South Pacific Islanderss who eat a ton of coconut fat are so healthy along with the capric acid.

** Breast milk has 20% more saturated fat than lard.

BTW, despite the lofty name, the CSPI has no credibility.  Follow the money and you'll see who funds them.  They're the ones directly responsible for coercing tropical oils removed from all fast food back when it was actually tasty only to be replaced with tasteless and toxic trans-fat vegetable oils back in 1989-1990 only to reverse their position again to get trans-fats banned a few years ago.  They're also vehemetly anti-nutrition and anti-supplement.  They're nothing but a joke.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by MachineGhost » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:29 pm

Pointedstick wrote: That's the rub, I guess. What's the status of this? I remember reading some pretty convincing stuff back when Gumby was around that made me rethink my terror of saturated fats. Is that still considered true, or is the bleeding edge of nutrition back to the mainstream position on saturated fats?
The mainstream position is still that it is bad for you, but the latest scientific evidence has shot it down.  From Harvard Medical School, no less.  So the tune at the top is slowly catching up with reality.  Like the Soviet Union, it takes a very long time for the truth to set people free.  Most of the subterfuge has had to do with Big Pharma, public policy career agendas and horribly flawed studies and evil organizations like the CSPI.  I posted this in another forum awhile back:
Here are five short term, one long term, randomized human trials replacing animal fats with Omega-6 vegetable oils:

Doubled number of major cardiac events:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2166702/
No effect:
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.100 ... 95642-3_15
Increased mortality by 39%:
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.100 ... -0967-3_18
"No effect" but results reported halfway through!:
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.asp ... eid=337080
Small increase in mortality: http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/9/1/129.short
More atherosclerosis, marked increase in cancer risk*, total mortality slighty higher:
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/40/1S2/II-1.short
(Note that the butter group had 200% more heavy smokers and 60% more moderate smokers!  The Vitamin E was also deficient in the butter due to reuse after [re]cooking; the vegetable oil was specifically not reused:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14281370
)

Corn oil vs Coconut oil in rats:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0703002600

And out of sheer curiosity, here's the evil deed after the takeover of the AHA by Ancel Keys**, et al. that started the cholesterol lipid hypothesis ball rolling:
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/23/1/133.short

Of course theres many other negative health effects from Omega-6, but I'm limiting it to just CVD here.

Joe Sixpack

* Study at:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3671910865
** The sordid history of Ancel Keys is best told here:
http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/12/22/the-tr ... -it-wrong/
Last edited by MachineGhost on Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Fats and Health

Post by dragoncar » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:44 pm

MachineGhost wrote:
Pointedstick wrote: That's the rub, I guess. What's the status of this? I remember reading some pretty convincing stuff back when Gumby was around that made me rethink my terror of saturated fats. Is that still considered true, or is the bleeding edge of nutrition back to the mainstream position on saturated fats?
The mainstream position is still that it is bad for you, but the latest scientific evidence has shot it down.  From Harvard Medical School, no less.  So the tune at the top is slowly catching up with reality.  Like the Soviet Union, it takes a very long time for the truth to set people free.  Most of the subterfuge has had to do with Big Pharma, public policy career agendas and horribly flawed studies and evil organizations like the CSPI.  I posted this in another forum awhile back:
Here are five short term, one long term, randomized human trials replacing animal fats with Omega-6 vegetable oils:

Doubled number of major cardiac events:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2166702/
No effect:
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.100 ... 95642-3_15
Increased mortality by 39%:
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.100 ... -0967-3_18
"No effect" but results reported halfway through!:
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.asp ... eid=337080
Small increase in mortality: http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/9/1/129.short
More atherosclerosis, marked increase in cancer risk*, total mortality slighty higher:
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/40/1S2/II-1.short
(Note that the butter group had 200% more heavy smokers and 60% more moderate smokers!  The Vitamin E was also deficient in the butter due to reuse after [re]cooking; the vegetable oil was specifically not reused:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14281370
)

Corn oil vs Coconut oil in rats:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0703002600

And out of sheer curiosity, here's the evil deed after the takeover of the AHA by Ancel Keys**, et al. that started the cholesterol lipid hypothesis ball rolling:
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/23/1/133.short

Of course theres many other negative health effects from Omega-6, but I'm limiting it to just CVD here.

Joe Sixpack

* Study at:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3671910865
** The sordid history of Ancel Keys is best told here:
http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/12/22/the-tr ... -it-wrong/
MG, you've done a ton of research on this.  I've heard that canola oil is maybe the best mainstream oil you're going to find, if you are picking the best of bad choices.  Agree/disagree?
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