Gyroscopic Investing

99% of doctors specializing in heart disease believe that eating saturated fat is harmful and causes heart disease.  It is settled.

Benko wrote: 99% of doctors specializing in heart disease believe that eating saturated fat is harmful and causes heart disease.  It is settled.

Google "Lipid Hypothesis" and you see:

In 1978, 211 prominent researchers in the field were questioned about plasma cholesterol and the advisability of changing dietary habits.[16] 90% responded, giving the following answers:

Question

Yes

No

Uncertain

Do you think there is a connection between plasma cholesterol level and the development of coronary heart disease? 189 2 2
Do you think that our knowledge about diet and coronary heart disease is sufficient to recommend a moderate change in the diet for the population of an affluent society? 176 16 1

The National Institute of Health held a consensus development conference reviewing the scientific evidence in 1984, during which a panel of 14 experts unanimously voted "yes" on the questions of whether blood cholesterol was causal and whether reducing it would help to prevent heart disease.[2] The panel concluded:


It has been established beyond a reasonable doubt that lowering definitely elevated blood cholesterol levels (specifically, blood levels of low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol) will reduce the risk of heart attacks caused by coronary heart disease...

—[17]

By the end of the 1980s, there were widespread academic statements that the lipid hypothesis was proven beyond reasonable doubt,[18][19][20] or, as one article stated, "universally recognized as a law."[21][22][23][24][

The problem is models and taking them for reality.  Or perhaps  just the egos of scientists.  Well and doctors who fur shure ain't scientists.

"A scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."
Max Planck

I know almost nothing about particle physics other then string theory is the(a?)  current "model" but I gather it may all turn out to be BS down the road.

The wording of the rebuttal article to Krugman posted in the other thread has some good and valid points about models and reality. 

Funny but I raised my saturated fat intake and my cholesterol fell precipitously.  Why must I always be such a renegade?

Reub wrote: Funny but I raised my saturated fat intake and my cholesterol fell precipitously.  Why must I always be such a renegade?

It is sad that reality so often gets in the way of good theories.

I just finished a good book called Big Fat Surprise that details how the supposed benefits of a low fat diet eventually became "settled science". There's no reason to believe the same thing couldn't happen in virtually any other area.

Wasn't this thread about the fact that so called settled science is not really settled at all? Weren't we using saturated fat's changing role in heart disease as an example to show that the settled science of global warming should not be considered as settled? What's the point of turning this into a discussion of lipid theory when it was actually a discussion about not accepting the religion of global warming?

Reub wrote: Wasn't this thread about the fact that so called settled science is not really settled at all? Weren't we using saturated fat's changing role in heart disease as an example to show that the settled science of global warming should not be considered as settled? What's the point of turning this into a discussion of lipid theory when it was actually a discussion about not accepting the religion of global warming?

Yes.

Moving this to a separate thread is either an easily understood mistake, or another example of people conveniently remove "distracting evidence"  ;-)

Oh and PUG, I make no claims to absolute truth, but 1. You'd have to go through all the studies that make up the meta study to properly evaluate its validity and 2.  replacing saturated fats with polyunsaturates  is way out of favor with anyone who's opinion I respect.  Why?  Firstly getting more omega 6s is not something most people need more of.  2nd polyunsaturates are easily oxidized. 

It is OK TEnn.  I couldn't resist the joke.

It did take on a life of its own especially when Pug posted.

Benko wrote: 99% of doctors specializing in heart disease believe that eating saturated fat is harmful and causes heart disease.  It is settled.

I think I read somewhere that even the doctor who first proposed the Lipid Hypothesis didn't say that eating saturated fat was the cause of heart disease. He just said high blood cholesterol was linked to heart disease without making any assumptions about what causes high blood cholesterol.

Actually, I think I read that he was skeptical about attributing it to dietary fat (skeptical? he should be shot).

But this just seems to be the way these things work to become settled science. Somebody with an agenda just gets some usable facts and takes the ball and runs with it and everybody else parrots what they say.

But from what I read, and I looked into it because my M.D. wanted me to take a statin before he fired me, there IS a solid link between cholesterol and heart disease but not so much between mortality from heart disease and cholesterol. And most people who are taking statin's are probably doing so needlessly. That was the big rub with me, taking any drug that is advertised on television and has a multi-billion dollar industry promoting it. I also once took Vioxx for (mis-diagnosed) arthritis, BTW. Fortunately, not too long.

Benko wrote: 99% of doctors specializing in heart disease believe that eating saturated fat is harmful and causes heart disease.  It is settled.

Benko,

I think you are baiting me.  Chumming the waters.  Larding the ham.

I'll bite.

It's no secret that I'm a big fan of eating animals.  Every damn part of the animal.  The muscles, the cartilage, the embryos, the skin, the organs, the intestines and especially the yummy yummy fat.

Saturated fat is fascinating.  What does "saturated" mean?  It is saturated, full of, hydrogen atoms.  Mostly that means that it doesn't oxidize (no bonds open to react with oxygen).

Thus, no need for all of those "anti-oxidants" that are so over advertised.

What about heart disease?

"Plaque" is the accumulation of calcium in the arteries.  Nothing at all to do with saturated fat.  Very very much to do with vitamin K2.

Okay... I'll stop before I get on a roll.  It's one thing to fall for the bait, quite another to leap into the boat .

It would be fun to have dinner with you sometime, Benko.

MangoMan wrote:

Benko wrote:
replacing saturated fats with polyunsaturates  is way out of favor with anyone who's opinion I respect.  Why?  Firstly getting more omega 6s is not something most people need more of.  2nd polyunsaturates are easily oxidized.

I don't disagree with either statement. However, do you dispute that increasing saturated fat in your diet causes a rise in unhealthy LDLs?

Personally I went from a high carb to a high saturated fat diet and my ldl has fallen from 133 to 100, more than 30%. My hdl is now higher than my triglycerides and crp went from 8 to 0.4. I highly recommend the high fat diet. Oh, I also have lost 15% of my body weight.

MangoMan wrote:

Benko wrote:
replacing saturated fats with polyunsaturates  is way out of favor with anyone who's opinion I respect.  Why?  Firstly getting more omega 6s is not something most people need more of.  2nd polyunsaturates are easily oxidized.

I don't disagree with either statement. However, do you dispute that increasing saturated fat in your diet causes a rise in unhealthy LDLs?

I don't know the literature on that point.  Assuming it is true, what is the bottom line i.e. what do you do with the data?  MInimize all fat consumption?

THIS IS ANECDOTAL but:
--I knew someone who increased his daily egg consumption from 2 per day to over 12 per day and his total cholesterol dropped. 
--I know a number of people who've added coconut oil to their diet and their HDL went up.

Maybe this is all supurious. Maybe.  Or maybe there are differen populations of people who thrive on different diets.

pp4me3 wrote: I think I read somewhere that even the doctor who first proposed the Lipid Hypothesis didn't say that eating saturated fat was the cause of heart disease. He just said high blood cholesterol was linked to heart disease without making any assumptions about what causes high blood cholesterol.

Actually, I think I read that he was skeptical about attributing it to dietary fat (skeptical? he should be shot).

The co-founder of Greenpeace no longer believes in the Global warming propaganda.

MangoMan wrote: I, personally had the opposite experience. I switched from canola oil to coconut oil for cooking [supposed benefits from MCT, maybe reverse the alzheimer's my GF claims I suffer from, too, lol] and saw my LDL elevate to borderline problematic.

We're above my head now.  Check out the website/forum by the cardiologist William Davis.  I don't think you're the only one who had that problem, but neither do I think it the most common result.  Davis advocates a number of blood tests and I do believe there was one group who should avoid sat fats, but i don't remember the details.

Here: check out the forum here:

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/

May need to be a member.

MangoMan wrote: Removing that one trial from the meta-analysis reverses the results and shows that people who replaced saturated fat with polyunsaturated fats had a lower risk of heart disease.[/i]

Same conflationary logic applies.  it is the Omega-3 not the Omega-6.

Mark Leavy wrote: "Plaque" is the accumulation of calcium in the arteries.  Nothing at all to do with saturated fat.  Very very much to do with vitamin K2.

The first part is rather out of date and incorrect.  Get up to speed:

http://www.sabiosciences.com/pathway.ph ... erogenesis

Fair warning: you sound like one of those delusional, religious Paleo nutcases who ignore contrary facts and reality.  Just like a vegan.

MangoMan wrote: I, personally had the opposite experience. I switched from canola oil to coconut oil for cooking [supposed benefits from MCT, maybe reverse the alzheimer's my GF claims I suffer from, too, lol] and saw my LDL elevate to borderline problematic.

You can just use MCT oil and skip all the coconut fat.

Benko wrote: The co-founder of Greenpeace no longer believes in the Global warming propaganda.

Ad hominem attacks are of no use against the collective science behind global warming.  The only religion is in the denial against it.  Like proving a negative, you can't attack faith with facts because it is inherently delusional.

MachineGhost wrote:

Mark Leavy wrote: "Plaque" is the accumulation of calcium in the arteries.  Nothing at all to do with saturated fat.  Very very much to do with vitamin K2.

The first part is rather out of date and incorrect.  Get up to speed:

http://www.sabiosciences.com/pathway.ph ... erogenesis

Thank you for the pointer MG.  That was a good article.  It will take me a few days to digest it.

Mark Leavy wrote:Thank you for the pointer MG.  That was a good article.  It will take me a few days to digest it.

You don't want to digest it too quickly and get an insulin spike.

MangoMan wrote: Could you recommend something specific? Thanks.

Sure thing!  https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson ... -ml-liquid

If you have any kind of subclinical fungus or yeast infection, ketones will feed it as they metabolize ketones directly for energy.  So any adverse reactions to MCT Oil may be indicative of that.  I'm one of those people that get killer MSG-like headaches from coconut oil.  MCT Oil would probably kill me or make me kill myself.

Wikipedia claims that coconut oil is a good source of MCTs. Is that wrong? Personally, coconut oil doesn't seem to have any negative effect on me. I grease my cast iron skillets with it every day. If I don't feel any adverse health effects from it, what's better about this MCT oil?

i have tried both coconut oil and MTC, and enjoyed the results from both, coconut oil in its semi solid state is pretty darn tasty, but results in lots of weird looks from family and friends if you are seen eating a spoonful straight from the jar 

the brand of MTC i tried is https://www.bulletproofexec.com/bulletp ... d-mct-oil/