When the cops are the criminals

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Ad Orientem
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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Investigators say the officer was driving his orange Corvette 94 miles an hour, nearly twice the speed limit, when he collided off-duty with a family’s SUV.

The crash killed a 1-year-old girl who went flying out of the vehicle, according to police. But the Baton Rouge Police Department’s Christopher Manuel will face no criminal charges — not even for speeding, prosecutors said this week.

The news has drawn further scrutiny to the 2017 tragedy that stirred public outrage last year after authorities arrested the dead child’s mother, 21-year-old Brittany Stephens, on suspicion of negligent homicide, saying the baby probably would not have been ejected and killed if Stephens had properly secured the car seat. Authorities have decided not to charge her, East Baton Rouge district attorney Hillar Moore III said.

The choice to prosecute neither Manuel nor Stephens was an agonizing one, Moore told The Washington Post on Friday. But after two years of discussions, he said, prosecutors felt they couldn’t meet the burden of proof for homicide or even a lesser charge like negligent injury for the officer. At the same time, they were loath to go after a young woman whom Moore said has already “punished herself.”

“You never want any officer traveling 94 miles an hour,” he said. “It’s just stupid. It’s dangerous. But when we looked at the law and the facts and the circumstances, we just thought that this was the only reasonable decision to make.”

An attorney for Stephens told The Post he’s troubled by authorities’ handling of the case, though. He has questioned last year’s action against his client, calling it a tactic to muddy responsibility for baby Seyaira’s death. Now, he’s blasting the district attorney for letting the officer off the hook, saying the choice exudes “impropriety” given prosecutors’ close work with police.
Read the rest here.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... e-charges/
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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Disgraceful.
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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Not letting the officer off the hook here, but it probably actually is criminally negligent in the part of the parents for the baby not being properly fastened in the vehicle. The officer chose to speed, and the parents chose not to bother fastening their baby. The parents might deserve more blame, really: any number of things could have killed their kid, and if they had cared enough, they could have prevented it.
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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Xan wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:17 pm ...any number of things could have killed their kid, and if they had cared enough, they could have prevented it.
True, but those other things didn't. In this case, it was the actions of the officer that triggered the outcome.

Agree that the parents made a poor choice, but I also believe that those we entrust with upholding the law (and grant a monopoly on violence) should be held to a higher standard. In this case, it was the officers direct actions that led to the outcome.
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

Post by Xan »

drumminj wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:19 pm
Xan wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:17 pm ...any number of things could have killed their kid, and if they had cared enough, they could have prevented it.
True, but those other things didn't. In this case, it was the actions of the officer that triggered the outcome.

Agree that the parents made a poor choice, but I also believe that those we entrust with upholding the law (and grant a monopoly on violence) should be held to a higher standard. In this case, it was the officers direct actions that led to the outcome.
I would say that he caused the accident, but they caused her death. The law may see things differently. And I could simply be wrong, that's possible.

I agree 100% with holding law enforcement officers to a higher standard in matters related to their duties. For example, if a cop is taking a bribe to look the other way, or if he uses excessive violence when dealing with a suspect, or running a protection racket against business on his beat, then (if guilty) throw the book at 'em.

It isn't quite as clear for actions that take place off duty, when the officer is acting as an ordinary citizen. Whether or not a crime is prosecuted, and whether the officer/suspect is guilty or innocent, shouldn't have anything to do with his status as a policeman unless it related to being a policeman.

Actually, speeding could be kind of a grey area. Was he speeding because he knows that cops don't get speeding tickets? The "wink and nod" arrangement that cops don't get tickets certainly is an issue, and I don't know what the solution is. To the extent that this speeding was enabled by that knowledge, now you might be crossing back into an abuse of office kind of thing.
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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The idea that the officer is not even being charged with speeding is indefensible.
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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Xan wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:10 pm It isn't quite as clear for actions that take place off duty, when the officer is acting as an ordinary citizen. Whether or not a crime is prosecuted, and whether the officer/suspect is guilty or innocent, shouldn't have anything to do with his status as a policeman unless it related to being a policeman.
This is an interesting issue, and I think I disagree. Yes, they're not on duty, but they still should better understand the law (if ignorance isn't an excuse for the rest of us, it most certainly shouldn't be for the police), and I think there's some aspect as a society where we should expect our 'enforcers' to set a good example, whether they're on the clock or not. IMO this is a profession where I think it's wholly appropriate that their behavior in their private life affect their job/professional life. If the police don't follow the law, why should anyone else???

Xan wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:10 pm Actually, speeding could be kind of a grey area. Was he speeding because he knows that cops don't get speeding tickets? The "wink and nod" arrangement that cops don't get tickets certainly is an issue, and I don't know what the solution is. To the extent that this speeding was enabled by that knowledge, now you might be crossing back into an abuse of office kind of thing.
There's this too. Police seem to get away with so many things that us normal folks don't, so I don't see how the outcome could be any different than simply believing the rules don't apply to you as an officer. I think our current society has this wrong -- the bar has to be higher, not lower, for those we employ to enforce the rules of our society.
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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drumminj wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:44 pm There's this too. Police seem to get away with so many things that us normal folks don't, so I don't see how the outcome could be any different than simply believing the rules don't apply to you as an officer. I think our current society has this wrong -- the bar has to be higher, not lower, for those we employ to enforce the rules of our society.
There was a podcast about this recently.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/r ... 0456295816
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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drumminj wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:44 pm
Xan wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:10 pm It isn't quite as clear for actions that take place off duty, when the officer is acting as an ordinary citizen. Whether or not a crime is prosecuted, and whether the officer/suspect is guilty or innocent, shouldn't have anything to do with his status as a policeman unless it related to being a policeman.
This is an interesting issue, and I think I disagree. Yes, they're not on duty, but they still should better understand the law (if ignorance isn't an excuse for the rest of us, it most certainly shouldn't be for the police), and I think there's some aspect as a society where we should expect our 'enforcers' to set a good example, whether they're on the clock or not. IMO this is a profession where I think it's wholly appropriate that their behavior in their private life affect their job/professional life. If the police don't follow the law, why should anyone else???

Xan wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:10 pm Actually, speeding could be kind of a grey area. Was he speeding because he knows that cops don't get speeding tickets? The "wink and nod" arrangement that cops don't get tickets certainly is an issue, and I don't know what the solution is. To the extent that this speeding was enabled by that knowledge, now you might be crossing back into an abuse of office kind of thing.
There's this too. Police seem to get away with so many things that us normal folks don't, so I don't see how the outcome could be any different than simply believing the rules don't apply to you as an officer. I think our current society has this wrong -- the bar has to be higher, not lower, for those we employ to enforce the rules of our society.
In 100% agreement with your last sentence. Known as "setting an example"?

Vinny
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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The government lied, "framed," hid favorable evidence, and showed "contempt for the law at every turn" in their treatment of Michael Flynn, the retired three-star Army general and former Trump White House national security adviser.

Those charges were contained in a new filing in the government's case against Flynn. And his attorney, Sidney Powell, was just getting started.

In the 27-page-filing, an add-on to her previous motions, Powell demanded charges be dropped against Flynn based on previously withheld exculpatory documents by the government and the IG report on FISA abuse.
link
Hmm.
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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Kriegsspiel wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:07 am
The government lied, "framed," hid favorable evidence, and showed "contempt for the law at every turn" in their treatment of Michael Flynn, the retired three-star Army general and former Trump White House national security adviser.

Those charges were contained in a new filing in the government's case against Flynn. And his attorney, Sidney Powell, was just getting started.

In the 27-page-filing, an add-on to her previous motions, Powell demanded charges be dropped against Flynn based on previously withheld exculpatory documents by the government and the IG report on FISA abuse.
link
Hmm.
The source of the article to be trusted?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PJ_Media

"Accuracy and ideology PJ Media is an extreme far right[17] American news, opinion, and commentary website. Overall, PJ Media is to be Questionable based on extreme right wing bias, promotion of propaganda and conspiracies as well as numerous failed fact checks. One recent false allegation in January 2020 was a fake story by anti-Muslim PJ Media Columnist Richard Spencer[18]to smear U.S. Rep. Ilhan Omar by falsely claiming that she advised Iran to attack Trump-branded hotels in the world, thus committing treason[19]. This slandering story by PJ Media was also promoted on their Facebook Page[20][21]. Of course, this was a false story[22] by the PJ Media Contributor, who also runs the anti-Muslim conspiracy blog Jihad Watch. "

Vinny
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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vnatale wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:39 am The source of the article to be trusted?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PJ_Media

"Accuracy and ideology PJ Media is an extreme far right[17] American news, opinion, and commentary website. Overall, PJ Media is to be Questionable based on extreme right wing bias, promotion of propaganda and conspiracies as well as numerous failed fact checks. One recent false allegation in January 2020 was a fake story by anti-Muslim PJ Media Columnist Richard Spencer[18]to smear U.S. Rep. Ilhan Omar by falsely claiming that she advised Iran to attack Trump-branded hotels in the world, thus committing treason[19]. This slandering story by PJ Media was also promoted on their Facebook Page[20][21]. Of course, this was a false story[22] by the PJ Media Contributor, who also runs the anti-Muslim conspiracy blog Jihad Watch. "

Vinny
I was just going to link to the filing from the lawyer, but I figured since PJ Media was where I learned about it (and the story is backed up by other news sources), I'd link to them.

By the way, Richard Spencer is the white nationalist dude. The article on PJ Media is by Robert Spencer, who is a different person. What would that be, a false smear Inception?

EDIT Or a Russian Nesting Dolls Hoax situation >:D
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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vnatale wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:39 am The source of the article to be trusted?
The article accurately quotes Flynn's own attorney and provides a direct link to the court filing to back it up. So yes.

I'm more interested in what your doubt about the veracity of a well-known court case implies about the sources you do trust. If the truth surprises you, maybe it's time to branch out!
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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Justice Department watchdog finds errors in over 25% of FBI applications to "monitor" Americans.
The report said investigators found facts in all 25 applications that were either not supported, not clearly corroborated or inconsistent with documentation in factual-support files, though it didn’t look at the broader case file for such information. It said the review had found an average of 20 issues per application, with as many as 65 issues in one, and fewer than five in another.

The findings follow a December report in which the watchdog found a series of errors in the FBI’s pursuit of a wiretap against Mr. Page, a former Trump foreign-policy adviser.

In four additional applications, the FBI couldn’t locate the files of factual support, the report said.
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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Kriegsspiel wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:55 pm Justice Department watchdog finds errors in over 25% of FBI applications to "monitor" Americans.
The report said investigators found facts in all 25 applications that were either not supported, not clearly corroborated or inconsistent with documentation in factual-support files, though it didn’t look at the broader case file for such information. It said the review had found an average of 20 issues per application, with as many as 65 issues in one, and fewer than five in another.

The findings follow a December report in which the watchdog found a series of errors in the FBI’s pursuit of a wiretap against Mr. Page, a former Trump foreign-policy adviser.

In four additional applications, the FBI couldn’t locate the files of factual support, the report said.
It's stuff like this that makes me intellectually sympathetic to the libertarian ideal.

Government authority, arbitrary abuses of power, and the lack of any real checks and balances are the issues that plague our society today.

What really worries me is how the government is going to use the (legitimate) COVID-19 pandemic to permanently erode our freedoms.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/30/snowden-c ... veillance/
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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Full agree. This is something to keep an eye on.
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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Maybe after this pandemic, the only way a person will be allowed to buy or sell anything in public will be if a personal device or implanted chip (“mark of the Beast”) verifies that the person isn’t currently infected by the seasonal boogeyman virus.

That’ll get both the libertarians and the Christian fundamentalists excited!
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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Tortoise wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:55 pm Maybe after this pandemic, the only way a person will be allowed to buy or sell anything in public will be if a personal device or implanted chip (“mark of the Beast”) verifies that the person isn’t currently infected by the seasonal boogeyman virus.

That’ll get both the libertarians and the Christian fundamentalists excited!
There was a weird conspiracy theory about Bill Gates wanting to implant such a chip. It was supposed to tell you whether or not someone had been tested. i thought it was a funny parody of Windows certification (proof of purchase), but there are people out there who took it seriously.
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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OMG

https://youtu.be/DLVqvYJqATQ

The Chicago way...
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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Kriegsspiel wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:16 pm Image
Anyone been following the developments with this crew?
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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😂 😂
Kriegsspiel wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:16 pm Image
Anyone been following the developments with this crew?
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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Melbourne made it into the "Solari Report"

Social Distancing the Victorian way....

https://twitter.com/TheSolariReport/sta ... 3361348608
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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What was that all about?
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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Kriegsspiel wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 6:01 am What was that all about?
Either not a legitimate reason to be out of your house (eg Supermarket) or more than two people together.
Take your pick :)
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-w ... s-c-958222
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Re: When the cops are the criminals

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Hal wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 6:36 am
Kriegsspiel wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 6:01 am What was that all about?
Either not a legitimate reason to be out of your house (eg Supermarket) or more than two people together.
Take your pick :)
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-w ... s-c-958222
And please Gerald Celente, do a parody on this >:D
Still remember your last one from about ten years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx3R_glJde8
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