When the cops are the criminals

[moda0306]

John 3:20 - "For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed."

So could that explain why some in the NYPD don't like the criticism?

Bazinga!

[Mountaineer]

John 3:20 - "For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed."

So could that explain why some in the NYPD don't like the criticism?

Bazinga!

That was energetic.  I would think that the word "everyone" would include the NYPD as well as you and me if we do wicked things.  Do you see it differently?

... Mountaineer

[moda0306]

So could that explain why some in the NYPD don't like the criticism?

Bazinga!

That was energetic.  I would think that the word "everyone" would include the NYPD as well as you and me if we do wicked things.  Do you see it differently?

... Mountaineer

Well I certainly think it's true that it's very natural to not enjoy criticism, and to try to defend yourself from it, so you make a very good point.

The point-being, though... let's not be afraid to call wrong-doing out when it exists, especially if the people engaging in that behavior are doing so directly or indirectly on your behalf ("your" local police)... and if they try to defend indefensible behavior, call that out as well.

Though uncomfortable, I wouldn't expect to be treated any differently.

[Mountaineer]

Bazinga!

That was energetic.  I would think that the word "everyone" would include the NYPD as well as you and me if we do wicked things.  Do you see it differently?

... Mountaineer

Well I certainly think it's true that it's very natural to not enjoy criticism, and to try to defend yourself from it, so you make a very good point.

The point-being, though... let's not be afraid to call wrong-doing out when it exists, especially if the people engaging in that behavior are doing so directly or indirectly on your behalf ("your" local police)... and if they try to defend indefensible behavior, call that out as well.

Though uncomfortable, I wouldn't expect to be treated any differently.

Wow Moda,  I think this was our 999th point of agreement.  (I'm declaring it to be so; I've been taking lessons from dl on making statements and declaring it so just because I said it.  )  What say we go for 1000?

... Mountaineer

[Libertarian666]

My brother, who has been both an assistant DA and a contract public defender, explained yesterday exactly why we will never see police held accountable for their actions under anything resembling our current system.

In essence, the police and the DA's are partners in the legal system, not formally but practically. The DA's will not prosecute police except under the rarest of circumstances (i.e., when the spotlight of some particular outrage is shining on them), as they have to work with the police every day.

Therefore, there will be no change in this situation.

[Ad Orientem]

My brother, who has been both an assistant DA and a contract public defender, explained yesterday exactly why we will never see police held accountable for their actions under anything resembling our current system.

In essence, the police and the DA's are partners in the legal system, not formally but practically. The DA's will not prosecute police except under the rarest of circumstances (i.e., when the spotlight of some particular outrage is shining on them), as they have to work with the police every day.

Therefore, there will be no change in this situation.

I concur and have heard similar observations from people whose opinions I trust. The answer to me seems obvious. Allegations of serious misconduct or criminality by LEOs need to be handled by an independent prosecutor with no other jurisdiction or potential conflicts of interest.

[LC475]

Allegations of serious misconduct or criminality by LEOs need to be handled by an independent prosecutor with no other jurisdiction or potential conflicts of interest.

The only possible way for such a person to exist would be in a poly-centric legal system.  There can be no true independence in a mono-centric system.

[Lowe]

That may not actually be true.  The DoJ is more or less independent from the state's attorney.  Given the manpower, they will prosecute local cops.

Unfortunately the DoJ does not prosecute offenses that do not violate federal statutes.  So it does not work like that in practice.  They probably don't have enough police and attorneys to do it, anyway.

[LC475]

That may not actually be true.  The DoJ is more or less independent from the state's attorney.  Given the manpower, they will prosecute local cops.

Unfortunately the DoJ does not prosecute offenses that do not violate federal statutes.  So it does not work like that in practice.  They probably don't have enough police and attorneys to do it, anyway.

Independence is a spectrum.  The federal government apparatus is somewhat (one could say largely) separate and independent from the state government apparatus.  True.  But not completely.  The degree of independence is essentially determined by the degree of difference in the funding source.

For illustration: you might not be comfortable with the legal division of General Motors arbitrating and deciding the outcome of a dispute you have with the robotics division of General Motors.  They are two separate divisions.  Maybe there are organizational walls ("checks and balances!") built in to try to make them separate and independent, but in the end there can be no true, actually, complete independence.

Kind of like, you can't run your own "independent" audit.  It has to be an actual, separate entity, not funded by you.

[moda0306]

That may not actually be true.  The DoJ is more or less independent from the state's attorney.  Given the manpower, they will prosecute local cops.

Unfortunately the DoJ does not prosecute offenses that do not violate federal statutes.  So it does not work like that in practice.  They probably don't have enough police and attorneys to do it, anyway.

Independence is a spectrum.  The federal government apparatus is somewhat (one could say largely) separate and independent from the state government apparatus.  True.  But not completely.  The degree of independence is essentially determined by the degree of difference in the funding source.

For illustration: you might not be comfortable with the legal division of General Motors arbitrating and deciding the outcome of a dispute you have with the robotics division of General Motors.  They are two separate divisions.  Maybe there are organizational walls ("checks and balances!") built in to try to make them separate and independent, but in the end there can be no true, actually, complete independence.

Kind of like, you can't run your own "independent" audit.  It has to be an actual, separate entity, not funded by you.

I think this has to do more with a district attorney putting a guy whose buddies/boss he works with on a daily basis rather than having similar funding sources. 

Independence, in this case, is less about money and more about close-knit personal/professional relationships and career security/aspirations within your community.

[Libertarian666]

Allegations of serious misconduct or criminality by LEOs need to be handled by an independent prosecutor with no other jurisdiction or potential conflicts of interest.

The only possible way for such a person to exist would be in a poly-centric legal system.  There can be no true independence in a mono-centric system.

Correct, which is why I'm a "non-governmentalist".

[Ad Orientem]

Albuquerque prosecutor indicts cops, is shut out by cops

WaPo: Albuquerque prosecutor indicts cops, immediately faces repercussions

Further evidence for why we need an independent prosecutor to handle cases like this.

[MachineGhost]

Encouraging, but still enough loopholes to drive a Mack truck through.  For being a liberal, Obama sure is a wimp.  Along with marijuana legalization, this is the other hot button issue that made me a staunch libertarian back in the day.  Civil forfeiture is f*cking unAmerican.  The police should not be crony capitalists.

Attorney General Eric Holder is barring local and state police from using federal law to seize cash, cars and other property without proof that a crime occurred. The Post's Robert O'Harrow Jr. explains the most sweeping check on police power to confiscate personal property since the seizures began three decades ago.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/investiga ... ml?hpid=z1

[Ad Orientem]

San Francisco cops arrest public defender... for defending client.

According to this report, SFPD is claiming that "lawyers are only allowed to counsel a suspect when they are being formally interrogated for a crime..."

Read the rest here...
http://www.loweringthebar.net/2015/01/s ... ender.html

[Kriegsspiel]

I heard them talking about that on NPR the other morning. Sounded like total horseshit to me.

[MachineGhost]

More pigs get off...  unbelievable.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/office ... red-wrong/

[Ad Orientem]

Secret detention facility in Chicago

Chicago's police department is detaining US citizens for days on end in a secret compound where suspects have no contact with the outside world, the Guardian reports today.

Lawyers have compared the off-the-books interrogation warehouse in Chicago's Homan Square neighborhood to the CIA's so-called black sites offshore that are used to interrogate terrorists.
---
Suspects brought in for questioning don't get read their Miranda rights, according to the Guardian, which also reported that they don't get access to lawyers either. People are reportedly shackled for hours on end at the facility before being taken to a police station, booked, and formally charged.

Hill noted that when arrests are questionable, police will often take suspects to Homan Square instead of to a police station to avoid having a record of an arrest ever being made.

http://www.businessinsider.com/chicago- ... ite-2015-2

Bad link

NM  Looks like it was a temporary glitch.

[Ad Orientem]

Honestly this business about the Chicago PD needs its own thread.

[I Shrugged]

Honestly this business about the Chicago PD needs its own thread.

Color me skeptical until we see some verification.  Also, I did not see any tanks, huge or otherwise, in the photo.
Here is a better look at the same photo.  I thought maybe I could make google maps move down the street for other looks, but I can't seem to.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.868205, ... zF6rkQ!2e0

[Ad Orientem]

The latest example of cellphone video vindicating someone from false charges is a doozy. It comes from Washington Parish, La., and WWL TV.

    One of the worst days of Douglas Dendinger’s life began with him handing an envelope to a police officer.

    In order to help out his family and earn a quick $50, Dendinger agreed to act as a process server, giving a brutality lawsuit filed by his nephew to Chad Cassard as the former Bogalusa police officer exited the Washington Parish Courthouse.

    The handoff went smoothly, but Dendinger said the reaction from Cassard, and a group of officers and attorneys clustered around him, turned his life upside down.

    “It was like sticking a stick in a bee’s nest.”? Dendinger, 47, recalled. “They started cursing me. They threw the summons at me. Right at my face, but it fell short. Vulgarities. I just didn’t know what to think. I was a little shocked.”?

    Not knowing what to make of the blow-up, a puzzled Dendinger drove home. That’s where things went from bad to worse.

    “Within about 20 minutes, there were these bright lights shining through my windows. It was like, ‘Oh my God.’ I mean I knew immediately, a police car.”?

    “And that’s when the nightmare started,”? he said. “I was arrested.”?

He was not only arrested, he was also charged with two felonies and a misdemeanor. A prior drug charge on his record meant he was potentially looking at decades in prison. Seven witnesses backed up the police account that Dendinger had assaulted Cassard.

But Dendinger had asked his wife and nephew to record him serving the papers. It was a last minute decision, but one that may have saved him his freedom.

Another infuriating case of rotten cops, and this time prosecutors too, using the power of the state to pursue a personal vendetta. Details here...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the- ... the-video/

[moda0306]

The latest example of cellphone video vindicating someone from false charges is a doozy. It comes from Washington Parish, La., and WWL TV.

    One of the worst days of Douglas Dendinger’s life began with him handing an envelope to a police officer.

    In order to help out his family and earn a quick $50, Dendinger agreed to act as a process server, giving a brutality lawsuit filed by his nephew to Chad Cassard as the former Bogalusa police officer exited the Washington Parish Courthouse.

    The handoff went smoothly, but Dendinger said the reaction from Cassard, and a group of officers and attorneys clustered around him, turned his life upside down.

    “It was like sticking a stick in a bee’s nest.”? Dendinger, 47, recalled. “They started cursing me. They threw the summons at me. Right at my face, but it fell short. Vulgarities. I just didn’t know what to think. I was a little shocked.”?

    Not knowing what to make of the blow-up, a puzzled Dendinger drove home. That’s where things went from bad to worse.

    “Within about 20 minutes, there were these bright lights shining through my windows. It was like, ‘Oh my God.’ I mean I knew immediately, a police car.”?

    “And that’s when the nightmare started,”? he said. “I was arrested.”?

He was not only arrested, he was also charged with two felonies and a misdemeanor. A prior drug charge on his record meant he was potentially looking at decades in prison. Seven witnesses backed up the police account that Dendinger had assaulted Cassard.

But Dendinger had asked his wife and nephew to record him serving the papers. It was a last minute decision, but one that may have saved him his freedom.

Another infuriating case of rotten cops, and this time prosecutors too, using the power of the state to pursue a personal vendetta. Details here...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the- ... the-video/

Holy balls.  I wouldn't have believed this but for the video... and I'm a "cop hater!"

[MachineGhost]

As a disabled Army veteran on a fixed income,

Wow, that is really fucking low.   I'm not going to watch the video to save my blood pressure.

[madbean]

This sounds like a great idea whose time has come.

http://sputniknews.com/news/20150303/1018971990.html

[Libertarian666]

This sounds like a great idea whose time has come.

http://sputniknews.com/news/20150303/1018971990.html

But, but, but! That's one of the very few things that government is supposed to do because private enterprise can't do it!
Note:

[I Shrugged]

I am getting this second hand from a relative, but I'm told that the Chicago detention center thing got a pretty thorough looking into by local media after the Guardian article, and even the defense attys scoffed at the report.  This is a problem with the internet, and we all tend to believe things which mesh with our biases.