Evolution discussion

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moda0306
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Re: Evolution discussion

Post by moda0306 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:02 pm

Benko wrote:
moda0306 wrote: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=epLhaGGjfRw

An interesting lecture by my man Tyson. This has been going on for centuries, and by insanely SMART people.  Once we don't understand something, "God did it."  Until we finally figure out that it is completely natural with a new well-tested theory.
Leaving god (skynet, Hal, etc way aside...)
So until the theory arrives which explains things it is OK to say we don't know/understand, right?
As opposed to being branded a denier for pointing this out.
Of course if there is no theory describing a phenomenon it is ok to say "we do not know."  What's dangerous is to assume "God did it" and quit trying to learn about it.
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Re: Evolution discussion

Post by Desert » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:07 pm

moda0306 wrote: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=epLhaGGjfRw

An interesting lecture by my man Tyson. This has been going on for centuries, and by insanely SMART people.  Once we don't understand something, "God did it."  Until we finally figure out that it is completely natural with a new well-tested theory.
Darnit, I thought it was going to be Mike Tyson. 

I'll watch this moda, and I'm sure I'll be converted.  :)
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Re: Evolution discussion

Post by moda0306 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:14 pm

Here's a short video of a guy breaking down supposed "irreducible complexity" of a flagellum. I would love him (or someone else) to break down other supposedly "irreducibly complex" things like eardrums and eyes. I'll see if there is more on the interwebs. Not that it is necessarily true, but i would love to see an ID'er refute them.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m2alpk8PUd4
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Re: Evolution discussion

Post by dualstow » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:19 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Of course if there is no theory describing a phenomenon it is ok to say "we do not know." 
+1
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Re: Evolution discussion

Post by Desert » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:21 pm

Ok, he wanders about for the first 15 minutes, and the most interesting thing he says is that Newton was a genius.  I can agree with that.  He talks about the fact that humans didn't understand planetary motion a couple thousand years ago.  I can buy that.  So he says that where knowledge ends, God is evoked to explain things.  Then he blabbers on about how we're "done with the orbits," without admitting nobody knows where gravity came from, where the planets came from.  I still haven't figured out what his argument is.  He seems disappointed when people ascribe to God things they don't understand; but then when people do understand the laws of the universe, he believes these laws come from .... what?  Nobody doubts that the universe obeys physical laws such as gravity, etc.  And we uncover more laws every day.  So what do we conclude from that?  That's the question.  Who set up the universe?  Tyson, Dawkins, or another sarcastic clown?  No, these guys will be taking a dirt nap in a few decades.  These guys are clowns, just out promoting their brand. 

Now he's talking about intelligent design being the philosophy of ignorance.  He's able to look back in the past and criticize Newton.  Ok, great.  What has this clown done for science?  He's an entertainer, and a boring one at that. 

Now he's blabbering about the internet, and how we invented it in the U.S.  Ok, great.  Something about naming rights.  Now he's blathering on about 9/11.  He lived four blocks away. 

Good crap, this is who you throw out there to prove evolution?  This guy is a complete clown.  My grandma could out debate this idiot, and she's DEAD.  :) 

Ok, off to bed.  I remain convinced that evolution is a religion, and not an honest religion. 
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Re: Evolution discussion

Post by Desert » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:26 pm

Ok, one more comment moda ... you have to find a better mouthpiece than Tyson.  I seriously think Mike Tyson is probably a higher level thinker than this guy.  Do you really find his "arguments" convincing?  Don't you see that he's kind of an MSNBC/FOX entertainer?  A Bill Maher?  Maybe that sort of argument appeals to you, but I honestly expected more from you ... seriously.  So you need to step it up.  I'm not sharing my smoked brisket with you unless you do a LOT better than this douche. 
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Re: Evolution discussion

Post by Desert » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:33 pm

Good crap, watching this guy is like watching a bad train wreck.  I can't stop.  I don't remember seeing a worse argument for anything.  Now he's blabbering about crocs eating chickens.  At least he's apologizing for taking up our time now.  "Birth defects are tragic."  He managed a verbal error when he said "aborted feces" when he meant to say "aborted fetuses."  Good freudian slip there that might tell us more about this guy.  Now he's blabbering about a separate hole for eating, breathing and talking.  Someone slip this clown some food.  Now he's talking about santa claus.  Now he's wondering what's happening between his legs (hint, hopefully nothing ... don't propagate this gene pool). 

Now he's worried that someone in the lab will say that only God knows how something works.  He doesn't want them in the science classroom.  Now he's whining about Republicans. 

Moda, you need to step it WAY up. 

My seven year old just stopped by and lambasted me for referring to someone as a "clown."  And he's right, clowns don't deserve this.  :)
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Re: Evolution discussion

Post by moda0306 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:40 pm

This wasn't a proof that intelligent design is false. It's an accurate description of how people look to God when they can't figure something out. And why it's so harmful. And he's right.

And if you think he's that stupid, I think we best just agree to disagree. I've seen a lot of his stuff and Tyson is the man.

I can understand why you wouldn't like a guy who is sarcastic towards religion, but his sarcasm comes from a place deeply rooted in frustration with when religion tries to silence scientific truth. His has happened so many times in history that it's not even funny.  We are just going to have very different perspectives on how much sarcasm can be heaped upon religion without crossing a professionalism line.
Last edited by moda0306 on Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Evolution discussion

Post by moda0306 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:55 pm

Why don't we leave behind Tyson, as he's obviously long on stories and his controversial "perspective," and short on objective deductive analysis.

I think one of the more useful areas will be focusing on irreducible complexity, which a HUGE portion of the intelligent design communities argument rests upon.  I think this is going to be a huge area of debate.  Should be interesting.
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Re: Evolution discussion

Post by moda0306 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:31 pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W96AJ0ChboU

Another video that more thoroughly dissects ID and irreducible complexity.
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Re: Evolution discussion

Post by rickb » Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:06 am

Desert wrote: I still haven't figured out what his argument is. 
Seriously?

His argument is that science stops when scientists ascribe things they don't understand to God. 

This has happened repeatedly.  Otherwise brilliant scientists have pushed beyond their contemporaries, and discovered/explained things no one in all of history did before them - but stopped dead in their tracks at things they couldn't (at the time) understand and, rather than push further, have offered explanations that invoke God.

His point is that belief in God is detrimental to science.  It basically killed the Arabic scientific explosion (between 800 and 1100 AD).  He's not so subtly saying that Intelligent Design proponents now are endangering science in the US, and that a scientist who accepts "God did it" as the answer to ANY question is not actually a scientist. 

Is evolution the right answer?  If it's wrong, the right answer certainly isn't "God did it".
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Re: Evolution discussion

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:58 am

rickb wrote:
Is evolution the right answer?  If it's wrong, the right answer certainly isn't "God did it".
And you absolutely positively know this how?  The right answer certainly could be "God did it" if God did indeed did do it.  It seems to me the answer "God did it" is a valid hypothesis that unbelievers should not rule out until they can  prove that God had no part in it (however one wishes to define "it").  In my humble opinion, deciding ahead of time to limit ones options by not objectively considering all possibilities is not in the best interests of science or religion.

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I marvel at the creation - its beauty, its endurance, its complexity. I marvel that man can make complex things but is incapable of making even the simplest living organism - a blade of grass, a tree, an ant, an amoeba.
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