Anarchist/Statist Union: realistic, libertarian solutions to the USA's problems

[Pointedstick]

Just for kicks and giggles, let's brainstorm some pro-freedom, realistic policy prescriptions for the "anarchist/statist union" party.

In order to be considered, the proposals must increase freedom and opportunity for American citizens, must be effective at accomplishing their aims, must be popular enough to pass and not be repealed, and must be feasible to enact given the current social environment and must require at most only only slight alterations to the current gridlocked political environment (e.g. one party in control of both houses of congress, or no silent filibuster, etc).

I'll start:

Energy
- Reduce the legal and bureaucratic hurdles to building new nuclear power plants, coupled with a phase-out of coal plants. Natural gas plants would be unaffected. In essence, all coal plants must eventually be replaced with natural gas, nuclear, or other even cleaner generation technology.
- Heavily incentivize the construction of hydroelectric plants where geographically feasible.
- Heavily subsidize alternative energy technologies, with the subsidies tapering off over a time span measured in decades.

Immigration
- Reinstate/create a system privileging legal immigrants with money, advanced degrees, who already know english, etc.
- Begin Australia-style propaganda campaigns aimed at making foreigners not want to enter the USA.
- Make it very easy for people to legally work in the USA on a seasonal basis without having to permanently move here.
- Deport all immigrants who have committed any crimes, other than illegal immigration itself, with no exceptions allowed.

College and student loan debt
- Make student loan debt dischargeable in bankruptcy again.
- Completely eliminate federal student loan guarantees and federal lending programs.

[Mountaineer]

Justice System

- Loser in court cases pays for all court costs and legal fees for both parties.

- Supreme Court judges appointed for life by a 2/3 majority of a panel consisting of President, Senate Majority Leader, Speaker of the House, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, One Marine Gunnery Sergeant chosen at random, Four US Citizens chosen at random.  Three initial judge candidates proposed by President.  If no one selected after 3 ballots, Senate Minority Leader chooses three more, if no one selected after three more ballots, Speaker of the House chooses 3 more, then on down the line until a person is selected.  If no one is able to be selected after all four citizens have finished - winner of one round of 7 card stud with nothing wild from the above participants picks the judge.

Legislative System

- All persons who lobby to educate and/or influence policy makers are limited to "policy makers' offices" during normal working hours" only and may not give freebies such as lunches, dinners, vacations or the like to those they are trying to educate or influence.  Policy makers are prohibited from accepting perks from lobbyists.  Felony offense if violated.

- Federal and State Senators and Representatives limited to two consecutive terms maximum.

- Federal and State Senators and Representatives shall have no government subsidized pension, health insurance, or savings plan; travel expenses will be reimbursed (coach class for all domestic flights, business class for international) for the traveler and a maximum of 5 security personnel.  Salaries will be sufficient to enable lifestyles while in office to be no higher than the top 5% or no lower than the top 10% of private salaries/wages.

... Mountaineer

[Benko]

These are some great ideas.  When the thread is finished, why doesn't someone take some of the suggestions and send them to some of the folks who'll be running for president in the next go around?  Obviously many will not be suitable but there are probably some that would.  OR perhaps I'm being naive.

[Pointedstick]

These are some great ideas.  When the thread is finished, why doesn't someone take some of the suggestions and send them to some of the folks who'll be running for president in the next go around?  Obviously many will not be suitable but there are probably some that would.  OR perhaps I'm being naive.

Nah, that wouldn't work. To actually get any of these ideas implemented, the general course of action would be something like this:

- Get lots of people (voters or no, doesn't matter) to in some manner indicate their support for this platform; collect their personal information, and in particular, their email addresses.
- Inflate the apparent size of this group with low-barrier-to-entry methods such as having a Facebook page with a zillion likes, a Twitter account with lots of followers; you name it. The appearance of mass support is a huge advantage.
- Use evidence of this popular support (no matter how thin) to start an extremely lean, low-cost lobbying organization whose aim is to get politicians who are already in office or likely to win their elections to publicly agree to the platform. Utilize the internet as much as possible, due to its low expense and high reach compared to traditional mailings.
- Hold these politicians' feet to the fire by bombarding the people who approved with emails telling them about those politicians stances once in office, always including extremely easy ways for them to send messages of approval and/or disapproval with the click of a mouse.

Basically, you need to start an astroturfing campaign that inflates the degree of true support for this platform, when in fact you have mostly manufactured that support by putting the whole pre-manufactured platform right in front of people who were already likely to approve of it, and then reducing the difficulty of their contacting politicians to indicate this support to a lower level than that of other people who were not targeted by such a campaign. The result is that to cowardly politicians, it appears that there is a groundswell of enthusiasm for a popular movement that they'd better get on board.

This, by the way, is how all the Pros already do it. It's not a revolutionary idea. It's simply standard procedure, and yet another indication how how representative governance is basically a cruel joke. But it's simply how the game is played these days, and you have to play the game if you want to win.

Anyway, so as not to derail the thread too much:

Social Security/retirement
- Grandfather in all living people; if you're alive today, you will be able to continue to use the system as it exists today until you kick the bucket.
- Create a new plan for people who opt in as well as for all people not yet born whereby the employer and employee contributions are instead put into a private account that defaults to being like the TSP G-fund. Other safe-low return government securities are available, and also a "brokerage window" option. The funds in this account cannot under any circumstances be accessed prior to age 50 but are completely tax-free forever. People are allowed to put as much of their own post-tax money into this fund as they like.

[Pointedstick]

Agree strongly on the Environment and Immigration ideas.

I don't understand why you think student debt should be dischargeable.  Or any debt for that matter. It is a responsibility you choose to take on, not one that is forced on you at gunpoint. Debt that is discharged is paid for by everyone else through higher costs and fees. Completely disagree here.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm one of those saps who paid off his tens of thousands of dollars in student loans with his own money, and then went on to purchase a house in cash. I take debt obligations very seriously. My belief that debt should be dischargeable in bankruptcy is mostly a pragmatic, utilitarian belief rather than a moral one. When debt must be repaid no matter what, people who stupidly become indebted beyond their means to pay effectively become slaves to their creditors. I don't think this state of affairs is good for society. It fosters class resentment, it unnecessarily impoverishes stupid people, and it reduces the indebted people's ability to meaningfully contribute to the rest of society itself as opposed to digging themselves out of their financial holes, which only benefits their creditors.

Lenders take a risk with their money; that's why they earn a rate of interest on it. If loans were supposed to be risk-free, there shouldn't be interest payments to reward lenders for taking that lack of risk. So, how about the following compromise: the percentage that is dischargeable should be tied to the interest rate. Something like this:

- Interest rate under current prime rate: loan not dischargeable in bankruptcy
- Interest rate equal to or above current prime rate: up to 50% is dischargeable
- Interest rate twice current prime rate or higher: 100% is dischargeable

[Mountaineer]

Executive System

The President shall serve a single six year term.  The Vice President will serve a single three year term.  The President and Vice President shall be chosen by a national lottery.  Those not eligible for the lottery are: non-citizens, former Presidents and Vice Presidents, felons, those under the age of 40, those over the age of 65, and members of any domestic or international terrorist organizations as identified by the FBI.

All Presidental and Vice Presidential advisors will be nominated (and then chosen by a two thirds majority) by a board consisting of nine randomly selected State Governors with no more than five from any one political party.  Those not eligible for nomination/selection are non-citizens, felons, Federal lobbyists, and any teacher/professor employed by an organization of higher learning (college, university, and the like) within the previous ten years, and members of any domestic or international terrorist organizations as identified by the FBI.  Advisors will be between the ages of 35 and 70.

... Mountaineer

[Pointedstick]

I love your ideas, Mountaineer, but I'm not sure I think they have a prayer of a chance of ever getting implemented.

[moda0306]

eliminate the federal department of education
do away with all federal education rules, standards, financing, and control. Issue education credits to every US citizen to spend at their discretion on education for their kids, grand kids, relatives, extended family, themselves or to donate to a child in need, their alma mater, or school  of their choice.

How much would each of these credits be worth? $10?  $10,000?

I'm ok with this if it's enough.

I'm interested in hearing who proposes the first monetary system here

good question, i wonder what the per person amount would come to if you took all the money spent now, plus all the money spent on government salaries, legislation, research, policy making, building rental/ownership/upkeep, red tape etc etc etc and divided it across the population.. my guess is it would be a nice amount.

[Libertarian666]

Conviction on impeachment should require only a simple majority of the Senate.

[Pointedstick]

Taxes
- When you tax something, you discourage it; why do we tax earning income and creating jobs!? These are the things we want most!
How to fix it:
- If we repealed income, sales, and corporate taxes, we could incentivize greater positive economic activity.
- If anything should be taxed, it should be things we don't want, like pollution, crime, inaction, etc!
-- Heavy pollution taxes
-- increased taxes on non-productive investments (e.g. in foreign firms, precious metals, etc)
-- All welfare benefits become taxable
-- Crime tax paid by liquidating the criminal's assets as aplicable if he has no money

[Mountaineer]

Taxes
- When you tax something, you discourage it; why do we tax earning income and creating jobs!? These are the things we want most!
How to fix it:
- If we repealed income, sales, and corporate taxes, we could incentivize greater positive economic activity.
- If anything should be taxed, it should be things we don't want, like pollution, crime, inaction, etc!
-- Heavy pollution taxes
-- increased taxes on non-productive investments (e.g. in foreign firms, precious metals, etc)
-- All welfare benefits become taxable
-- Crime tax paid by liquidating the criminal's assets as aplicable if he has no money

PS for Prez!

... Mountaineer

[Libertarian666]

Taxes
- When you tax something, you discourage it; why do we tax earning income and creating jobs!? These are the things we want most!
How to fix it:
- If we repealed income, sales, and corporate taxes, we could incentivize greater positive economic activity.
- If anything should be taxed, it should be things we don't want, like pollution, crime, inaction, etc!
-- Heavy pollution taxes
-- increased taxes on non-productive investments (e.g. in foreign firms, precious metals, etc)
-- All welfare benefits become taxable
-- Crime tax paid by liquidating the criminal's assets as aplicable if he has no money

What have you done with Pointedstick? Or is it really you and you need some sort of intervention? Most of these make NO sense.

Increased taxes on precious metals? Nearly double the rate for LTCG on PMs relative to stocks isn't enough? That's a great way to punish those trying to protect themselves from inflation.
Welfare benefits become taxable? Does nothing, because that is just giving and taking away the same money.
Crime tax paid by liquidating the criminal's assets? Then all they have to do is make everything illegal and presto, 100% taxation!

[Pointedstick]

Criminal justice
- Felony: A violent crime with at least one identifiable human victim
- Misdemeanor: a non-violent crime with at least one identifiable human victim
- Violation: A crime with no identifiable victim (Maximum punishment: fines)

- A person will be incarcerated for life with no possible release save an official pardon after separate convictions for the following:
-- Three felonies
-- Eight misdemeanors

- A person's criminal record is sealed and only available to the public with the payment of a $10,000 fee
- No ongoing disablements (e.g. banned from voting, owning guns, holding certain jobs, etc) may be applied to people who have been previously convicted of crimes and who are now back in society

[WiseOne]

A most worthy thread to resurrect!

Medical care:

All medical and dental care is free market, cash basis.

Implement a national health system of insurance for catastrophic events and serious chronic conditions, with reimbursements tied to condition and severity level rather than point of service, funded from the general budget.  (Serious chronic conditions = ones that kill you if untreated and can get very expensive e.g. diabetes, heart failure, epilepsy, stroke, major depression; things like subjective pain syndromes are not the government's problem.)  Payments go to the patients upon certification of a qualifying diagnosis.  The money goes straight into an HSA, to ensure it will be there when needed to pay medical bills, and not used to buy a new Lexus.  The HSA should have very tight restrictions on non-medical withdrawals, i.e. none permitted before age 65.

Patients can opt to buy private insurance to cover expenses not backstopped by the government policy, but it has to work in the above cash-based system. 

Medicaid and Medicare both disappear, as do state Medicaid taxes and the separate Medicare payroll tax.  Citizens with incomes below, say, 2x poverty level and those above retirement age get extra help in the form of government contributions to their HSA.

Get rid of all government funded medical research outside of NIH (including military programs and the new PCORI program funded under Obamacare).

Then (and only then) make Obamacare disappear.  SSI/disability will also be greatly reduced, since patients will once again have an incentive to go get a job as allowed by their condition, and no disincentives in the form of Medicaid.

[Pointedstick]

Brilliant. I love it.

[WiseOne]

Thanks!

There are lots of great suggestions in this thread.  It makes it clear the extent to which the government is doing the equivalent of setting fire to large piles of money and wasting so many people's time, every day of the week.  Insane.

[MachineGhost]

WiseOne, I approve!  But why don't we just go all the way and scrap everything we have now and implement a Citizen's Dividend?  It may leave a lot of people (politicians, pundits, bureacurats, rank and file) with nothing to obliviate over, but I consider that a cost well-worth paying.

[MachineGhost]

Deport all immigrants who have committed any crimes, other than illegal immigration itself, with no exceptions allowed.

I think you mean all violent crimes here...  I don't care about some beano pot smoker.  And what's to stop them from redefining "crime" again?

[MachineGhost]

- Create a new plan for people who opt in as well as for all people not yet born whereby the employer and employee contributions are instead put into a private account that defaults to being like the TSP G-fund. Other safe-low return government securities are available, and also a "brokerage window" option. The funds in this account cannot under any circumstances be accessed prior to age 50 but are completely tax-free forever. People are allowed to put as much of their own post-tax money into this fund as they like.

Depending on who manages the TSP funds, Wall Street will fight you tooth and nail on this.  Privatization is only "acceptable" if they get in on the gravy train.

[MachineGhost]

The President shall serve a single six year term.  The Vice President will serve a single three year term.  The President and Vice President shall be chosen by a national lottery.  Those not eligible for the lottery are: non-citizens, former Presidents and Vice Presidents, felons, those under the age of 40, those over the age of 65, and members of any domestic or international terrorist organizations as identified by the FBI.

All Presidental and Vice Presidential advisors will be nominated (and then chosen by a two thirds majority) by a board consisting of nine randomly selected State Governors with no more than five from any one political party.  Those not eligible for nomination/selection are non-citizens, felons, Federal lobbyists, and any teacher/professor employed by an organization of higher learning (college, university, and the like) within the previous ten years, and members of any domestic or international terrorist organizations as identified by the FBI.  Advisors will be between the ages of 35 and 70.

If your point is to cause gridlock and a massive increase in "free speech" lobbying vs getting anything done, you'll succeed.

[MachineGhost]

-- All welfare benefits become taxable

Really, you want the ultimate in regressive taxation on people who can least afford it?  If you're going to adopt this kind of B.S. and force people into wage slavery, then you better set the minimum wage to a living wage of at least $20 an hour.

[WiseOne]

Taxes
- When you tax something, you discourage it; why do we tax earning income and creating jobs!? These are the things we want most!

Exactly why I like the Fair Tax!  One of the many reasons actually.  It taxes consumption of new goods.  Earnings and used goods purchases are not taxed.

[moda0306]

Taxes
- When you tax something, you discourage it; why do we tax earning income and creating jobs!? These are the things we want most!

Exactly why I like the Fair Tax!  One of the many reasons actually.  It taxes consumption of new goods.  Earnings and used goods purchases are not taxed.

1) Wouldn't a tax system that only taxes things we DON'T want (rather than one that more properly measured degree of use), be very difficult to use as a reliable revenue-creator, and over-punish certain behaviors and not factor in much actual use at all (ie, gas tax to pay for roads, income tax to pay for wars, etc).

2) I've never cared for the fair tax.  It's not nearly as simple as it seems.  Consumption taxes can get SUPER complicated.  What is a taxable "sale?"  Consumer products?  Services?  Equipment?  Real property?  Do I get a credit for sales tax I paid when I purchased raw materials and labor to produce a widget? 

Further, we WANT economic activity, and it's punishing that.  It's simply punishing the other side of the transaction.  In stead of punishing "income production," it punishes "purchasing," (which is someone else's income... gross anyway).  This punishes desirable economic activity. I like sales taxes in the sense that they make people pay for increased economic activity that drives the need for greater government (while income taxes only punish you if you're extremely successful at producing income, which doesn't necessarily mean you engaged in more economic activity).  But it's not anywhere close to the tax-solution as it would seem.


I would assert that the income tax is one of the most effective taxes.  It's just way too complex because of 1) different rates for different types of income (not income brackets, mostly, but types).  If you earn muni-bond income, vs dividend income, vs sweat income, you're taxed in VASTLY different ways.  2) Various deductions/credits, and especially PHASE OUTS of those deductions/credits.

Tax ALL income as income equal to any other, and get rid of phaseouts at least, but perhaps a bunch of deductions as well (if you get rid of the phase-outs, the deductions really aren't that big of a deal all by themselves).  This is what I think the feds should do.  At the local/state level, where you have more transportation spending, more of a consumption tax framework is most-likely appropriate, as economic activity generates a need for that infrastructure.

But I'd also add an inheritance as income to someone.  If I have to go out and shovel driveways to earn money, and that money is going to be taxed as income, so should Preston Pendleton Pennipincher III's inheritance that he didn't have to work for.  Yes, that income has "already been taxed," but so was the income somebody paid me with to shovel his driveway.


It appears I have quite different views on taxes than some libertarians here... part of what makes this "king for a day" stuff hard is what level of pragmatism you want to build into your model.  And what levels of government you are "king" of.  As king technocrat of the U.S., do I get to affect tax policy of small towns nation-wide?

[WiseOne]

Taxes
- When you tax something, you discourage it; why do we tax earning income and creating jobs!? These are the things we want most!

Exactly why I like the Fair Tax!  One of the many reasons actually.  It taxes consumption of new goods.  Earnings and used goods purchases are not taxed.

2) I've never cared for the fair tax.  It's not nearly as simple as it seems.  Consumption taxes can get SUPER complicated.  What is a taxable "sale?"  Consumer products?  Services?  Equipment?  Real property?  Do I get a credit for sales tax I paid when I purchased raw materials and labor to produce a widget? 

A taxable sale is any new goods or services that pass from a merchant to someone who will consume them.  Products, services, equipment - all yes.  Property  no - it has to be a *new* item.  For example, a new home would be taxed but an existing home would not be.  (Goods & services used to renovate said existing home would be taxed.)  Credit for sales tax paid - no, this is in addition to state sales taxes.  If you are a commercial entity and you are buying raw materials to produce a widget that will be sold - no, that is not taxed - that would be a "value added tax" which specifically taxes industrial production.  The Fair tax avoids that.

The arguments I've heard against the Fair Tax are that it'll encourage tax avoidance schemes, e.g. people will do more bartering etc.  Certainly that will be the case, but of course that kind of thing goes on now.  How many people are employed on a cash only, under the table basis?  And what about tips received as cash?  One of your arguments against it is undoubtedly true:  it will likely depress consumption of new goods & services.  To me, that's actually a positive thing, as it will get a lot more people inching toward living a more frugal/sustainable/sane existence.

[moda0306]

Exactly why I like the Fair Tax!  One of the many reasons actually.  It taxes consumption of new goods.  Earnings and used goods purchases are not taxed.

2) I've never cared for the fair tax.  It's not nearly as simple as it seems.  Consumption taxes can get SUPER complicated.  What is a taxable "sale?"  Consumer products?  Services?  Equipment?  Real property?  Do I get a credit for sales tax I paid when I purchased raw materials and labor to produce a widget? 

A taxable sale is any new goods or services that pass from a merchant to someone who will consume them.  Products, services, equipment - all yes.  Property  no - it has to be a *new* item.  For example, a new home would be taxed but an existing home would not be.  (Goods & services used to renovate said existing home would be taxed.)  Credit for sales tax paid - no, this is in addition to state sales taxes.  If you are a commercial entity and you are buying raw materials to produce a widget that will be sold - no, that is not taxed - that would be a "value added tax" which specifically taxes industrial production.  The Fair tax avoids that.

The arguments I've heard against the Fair Tax are that it'll encourage tax avoidance schemes, e.g. people will do more bartering etc.  Certainly that will be the case, but of course that kind of thing goes on now.  How many people are employed on a cash only, under the table basis?  And what about tips received as cash?  One of your arguments against it is undoubtedly true:  it will likely depress consumption of new goods & services.  To me, that's actually a positive thing, as it will get a lot more people inching toward living a more frugal/sustainable/sane existence.

I guess the question I would pose, is "why?"

Why are any of those limitations you gave self-evident and not up for debate?  Why does it have to be new and to a final consumer?  Why is this a taxable event, and not some other number?  If I go around and shovel driveways, I'm not producing a new product, so why do I get away scott-free?

It's not that I hate this system, but it's ripe for political influence in the future.  It's very arbitrary to consider some sales a taxable event but not others.