Pointedstick wrote:
It gave me a very strong desire to ensure that everything I spent, everything I did was effective; that none of it was simply wasted. It's not so much a scarcity mindset as an appreciation for the sufficient. If I look around, there is very little that I want for, and none of it costs an enormous amount of money.
Agreed to PS's points entirely. I actually grew up in a very frugal household as my father did as well. I was jealous of friends that had cable TV when I was a kid but then when I grew up I realized I didn't really need it. I did have my college education paid for by my parents while others weren't so lucky so in that regard, I was incredibly blessed.
My parents saved for what was important and discarded those things that didn't add real value to my life. I still consider A/C in a house a luxury even though I'm only 27 and I never grew up without the option for it if need be and that is due to the wisdom that is my father. My wife is on-board with it as well even though sometimes we get hot from the summer heat.
I can't wait until I can say I am working because I want to work, not because I NEED to work. The best way for me to do that is not through investing, but at taking a minimalist approach and realizing what I truly need to be happy and content.
Pointedstick wrote:
Isn't it interesting how our adult attitudes are so heavily shaped by the environments we grew up in? I was raised by people who are maybe a lot like you, mathjak: "work hard, play hard." They are New Yorkers who have lots of hobbies and love travel and have worked incredibly hard to facilitate it, clawing their way up from poverty to a very comfortable upper middle-class lifestyle replete with monthly air travel, gourmet food, you name it. But the amount of waste they produce always appalled me growing up. So much stuff bought and not used, so much food purchased that spoiled, so many car trips to a store half a mile away. Effort, money, resources… just thrown down the drain because after a certain point, the plenty from which they were drawn seemed inexhaustible. It was the classic story of people who had little growing up becoming bedazzled by the wondrous power of money.
It gave me a very strong desire to ensure that everything I spent, everything I did was effective; that none of it was simply wasted. It's not so much a scarcity mindset as an appreciation for the sufficient. If I look around, there is very little that I want for, and none of it costs an enormous amount of money.
I share the exact same feelings and a similar background.
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. - Blaise Pascal
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Don’t get me wrong, I used to have a daily routine — before I quit my six-figure job to pursue my passions and live a more meaningful life. And I hated that routine. Every day felt like Groundhog Day: awake to a blaring alarm, shower, shave, put on a suit and tie, spend an hour or more in mind-numbing traffic, succumb to the daily trappings of emails and phone calls and instant messages and meetings, drive home through even more mind-numbing traffic, eat something from a box in the freezer, search for escape within the glowing box in the living room, brush my teeth, set the alarm clock, sleep for five or six hours, start all over again in the morning.
That linked article was scary similar to my pre and post retirement life (major exceptions being I still have TV that I don't watch much and internet which I spend far too much time on). I did not realize I was into zen.
... M
Last edited by Mountaineer on Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
Kshartle wrote:
I feel like retirement is a worse-case scenario. It's kind of like saying "I never found a way to make money that I really enjoyed so I saved enough to stop".
...
I plan to never retire. That helps me focus on short-term goals which are vastly, vastly easier to acheive because they are near-term. They build on each other and keep building a better life, and ironically make early retirement a greater possibility should I ever choose that "worst-case scenario".
I think the happiest and most incredible people never retire until they are pysically incapable of continuing their work.
I don't expect to ever lie around the house all day. However, although my job isn't bad, it also isn't how I would spend my time if I didn't want the money.
So at some point I'm going to stop working for others and work for myself instead.
And as you recently disclosed that point DID happen sometime between then and now...
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
Kshartle wrote:
I feel like retirement is a worse-case scenario. It's kind of like saying "I never found a way to make money that I really enjoyed so I saved enough to stop".
...
I plan to never retire. That helps me focus on short-term goals which are vastly, vastly easier to acheive because they are near-term. They build on each other and keep building a better life, and ironically make early retirement a greater possibility should I ever choose that "worst-case scenario".
I think the happiest and most incredible people never retire until they are pysically incapable of continuing their work.
I don't expect to ever lie around the house all day. However, although my job isn't bad, it also isn't how I would spend my time if I didn't want the money.
So at some point I'm going to stop working for others and work for myself instead.
And as you recently disclosed that point DID happen sometime between then and now...
Vinny
Yes, I did retire in 2014 but I have had about a year's paid work since then.
At this point I'm hoping to make a lot of money from my current project, which is the best work I've ever done.
Even if I don't make much (or any) money from it, I want to make sure it is used because it would be a shame if that weren't to happen.
WiseOne wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:38 pm
OK that's it, no more early retirement for me! Today is a total loss so might as well make frivolous posts, to say that:
My department chair called me into his office (causing much anxiety) to tell me he is going to start me through the tenure process!!! Holy bejesus...did not see this coming. I'd be only the second woman in the history of my department to get it. This will be a long complicated process with no guarantees though.
Anyway, ahem...no change to the PP no matter what, but chances are I won't be living a life of leisure anytime soon. Except for today :-)
I may never come upon a subsequent post from you regarding this. Did you get it??!!!
VInny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
Good question...how about initial reactions for now. :-)
1. Four generation cruise (almost didn't happen as my father had a quad bypass three weeks ago, but he is progressing well and can go)
2. Landscapping a new home where I'm relocating to
Too young to do nothing for too long. I'm looking at trying to open a financial planning business that is focused on lower mid to middle income folks. Looking to do it more as a service, but profitable enough to provide a little augmentation of my personal income. I feel there is a need for this and can offer help. The challenge is, without being a charity, is there a viable business model that is mutually beneficial? I've always been a do it myselfer and gag at the thought of paying for stuff like this. But I also have come to realize most people don't particularly enjoy spending time hanging out on financial boards and really have no clue about sound saving and investing approaches as well as all the other stuff that comes with being at least proficient with your personal finances in all their complexity. Not to mention hardly anyone gives personalized assistance due to not much money being in this market segment. True charity wise I worked in the grocery business for several years as a kid and through college and actually liked it quite a bit. I plan on getting into volunteering somewhere in the food bank arena. I don't really care how poor someone is or if maybe their approach to life would suggest they brought it on themselves, but people particularly in the U.S. shouldn't have to go hungry. Obviously there may be a host of other issues where people need help to become more useful to themselves and society, but I'd like to help out with at least getting Maslow's bottom rung checked.
And then there are the basics...more time with family and building deeper relationships with family, friends, church and community.
There is a HUGE need for this for EXACTLY people with your intent -- to first provide a service and while secondarily hopefully generating some form of income for yourself. Question now nearly six years later is....did you ever do this? I know you are still a regular contributor to the forum and I do not remember you making any references to doing this work.
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
Retired from job 1. Thought I had a good life plan and realized I did not and that I missed human interaction typical with work. Trained to be a school bus driver just to do something. I finished the classroom part and got a call from a place where I had applied for a couple of non-stressful entry jobs. They told me they wouldn’t be hiring me for those but asked if I’d like to come interview, so sure. Anyway, I got super lucky and now do program management. I love the company I work for now...I was honest and said killer hours and a lot of stress were not something I was interested in anymore and if they wanted that I wouldn’t be a good fit. Anyway they liked my experience, needed it to a degree, and we agreed for me to work full time with me flexing if needed but basically working 4x10 hour days. Great working culture in the company and it pays well.
Anyway, beyond blessed in how things worked out. Eventually I would like to do the above but most likely it would be some type of charitable endeavor.
There is a HUGE need for this for EXACTLY people with your intent -- to first provide a service and while secondarily hopefully generating some form of income for yourself. Question now nearly six years later is....did you ever do this? I know you are still a regular contributor to the forum and I do not remember you making any references to doing this work.
Vinny
Vinny, there are many ways that people can make forum contributions.
The typical way of doing so is providing mountain loads of data/analysis tools like Tyler. Or, opining and providing insights through short essay type posts the way Tex did.
What you're doing here as the resident archivist (archeologist...? librarian?) is valuable in a unique way I've never seen. Great stuff!
There is a HUGE need for this for EXACTLY people with your intent -- to first provide a service and while secondarily hopefully generating some form of income for yourself. Question now nearly six years later is....did you ever do this? I know you are still a regular contributor to the forum and I do not remember you making any references to doing this work.
Vinny
Vinny, there are many ways that people can make forum contributions.
The typical way of doing so is providing mountain loads of data/analysis tools like Tyler. Or, opining and providing insights through short essay type posts the way Tex did.
What you're doing here as the resident archivist (archeologist...? librarian?) is valuable in a unique way I've never seen. Great stuff!
It's also unique to me----though not surprising coming from an obsession, compulsive personality. You've inspired me to now resurrect another one (from this Topic) that I read last night.
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
Desert wrote:
Can I ask what presently keeps you too busy to consider a paying job in retirement? By the way, when I mentioned that I might take on a career that pays less, I'm thinking the pay in my new career might actually be very close to zero.
Edited to add: What sort of health insurance did you use at age 56?
Desert,
When I first retired, my first priority was to learn how to do "nothing" and be OK with that. I retired from a job I loved and traveled over half the time and when I was home I was frequently doing some kind of "work". I was concerned that I would have trouble going from full throttle to idle. My wife was concerned that she would have to entertain me 24/7 since we both had really valued my down time when I was working. In retrospect, and much to my amazement, that did not happen - my wife learned she could still maintain her freedom and I valued my space as well as the time we spend together. I trust my abiity to keep myself from becoming bored. When I first retired, I took several classes at a local "over 50" place with several hundred other retirees. It was affiliated with our local university. I decided to take all those classes that I did not have the opportunity to while obtaining my engineering degree. I did that for two or three days a week for several hours each day over a period of 5 or 6 years. I finally tired of that. I do/did volunteer work, traveled a bit outside the US, traveled a lot to visit my kids, got involved in a lot of church work, and for the past few years attend 2 to 4 different Bible studies a week. I read a lot and spend way too much time playing on the computer. My wife and I enjoy trying different places to eat so we usually are going out several times a week either together or with friends who have similar interests. In the summer, yard work and general home maintenance takes some time and in winter (this winter especially) I REALLY have enjoyed using my snow thrower a lot (heavy sarcasm). When I first retired, I spent quite a bit of time monitoring and playing around with my investment portfolio - I have since greatly simplified it and don't look at it much any more. I developed a rather extensive "what to do if I die" plan, mainly for my wife and children's benefit, that my wife and I review annually. Also, I spent a lot of time off and on since retirement investigating family history (genealogy programs on the computer and a lot of physical and online research). I improved my marksmanship skills; that is another item I do off and on over the years. When I get as good as I think I can be, I lose interest for a couple of years and then start the cycle over again. I was on an exercise binge for a while until I realized that everyone who exercises a lot dies So, to answer your question in a very broad sense, I have tried to focus on my physical, emotional, mental and spiritual development in ways that are interesting and beneficial to myself and others.
In retirement I kept the same health insurance that I had while I was working. My company subsidizes retirees medical and dental insurance but when I retired, I picked up a larger share of the premiums. That lasted from the time I retired until Medicare kicked in at which time my company insurance became the secondary or supplemental. Then, for 2013 my company decided to get out of the health insurance game and just give the retirees a fixed sum of money that the retiree could use to buy their own supplemental plan. My company also made an arrangement with an insurance broker to help us find the right plan for our personal needs and desires (i.e. basic plan or Cadillac plan or something in between) and handle the reimbursements from the company subsidy.
Kriegsspiel,
I finished up my working career in northern Delaware and thus far, have chosen to remain here. It is a relatively retiree friendly state. The medical and dental care in the area is excellent, which is increasingly important; also we really like our doctors/dentist and I have heard a few horror stories from my friends about their doctors refusing to take Medicare aged patients - so far that has not happened in our area, perhaps since there are a large number of retirees here???? Our friends are mostly here. We really like our church. Our son and family live within a couple hour's drive. Most anything we want to do is reasonably close and if we want to travel (daughter and family live on west coast), there are major airports near by that have competitive airlines pricewise. The climate is relatively moderate and we enjoy the four seasons (usually) but I must say the older I get the less appealing temperature extremes and snow become.
WiseOne,
Thanks for the tip on expensive cat food. I will have to check out dry dog food or perhaps just rummage through the neighborhood trash cans if desparation sets in.
... Mountaineer
So, Mountaineer....
You gave us all the 13 year update (above). What is the update nearly six years since?
What have you stopped doing? Continued doing? Starting doing (subsequent to the above)?
One question I have for you is related to something that has kept me working many years and many hours past the time when I needed the income. I have done it for both the challenge and the sense of accomplishment I get from the work I do. From just reading the above, I have to assume that in your work career you had tons of challenges which you met and which regularly was giving you that sense of accomplishment.
Therefore I was surprised to read (above or elsewhere) that you completely stopped working (and at the age of 56). Do you still get challenged and have a similar sense of accomplishment in all the things you have done since?
Vinny
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
Desert wrote:
Can I ask what presently keeps you too busy to consider a paying job in retirement? By the way, when I mentioned that I might take on a career that pays less, I'm thinking the pay in my new career might actually be very close to zero.
Edited to add: What sort of health insurance did you use at age 56?
Desert,
When I first retired, my first priority was to learn how to do "nothing" and be OK with that. I retired from a job I loved and traveled over half the time and when I was home I was frequently doing some kind of "work". I was concerned that I would have trouble going from full throttle to idle. My wife was concerned that she would have to entertain me 24/7 since we both had really valued my down time when I was working. In retrospect, and much to my amazement, that did not happen - my wife learned she could still maintain her freedom and I valued my space as well as the time we spend together. I trust my abiity to keep myself from becoming bored. When I first retired, I took several classes at a local "over 50" place with several hundred other retirees. It was affiliated with our local university. I decided to take all those classes that I did not have the opportunity to while obtaining my engineering degree. I did that for two or three days a week for several hours each day over a period of 5 or 6 years. I finally tired of that. I do/did volunteer work, traveled a bit outside the US, traveled a lot to visit my kids, got involved in a lot of church work, and for the past few years attend 2 to 4 different Bible studies a week. I read a lot and spend way too much time playing on the computer. My wife and I enjoy trying different places to eat so we usually are going out several times a week either together or with friends who have similar interests. In the summer, yard work and general home maintenance takes some time and in winter (this winter especially) I REALLY have enjoyed using my snow thrower a lot (heavy sarcasm). When I first retired, I spent quite a bit of time monitoring and playing around with my investment portfolio - I have since greatly simplified it and don't look at it much any more. I developed a rather extensive "what to do if I die" plan, mainly for my wife and children's benefit, that my wife and I review annually. Also, I spent a lot of time off and on since retirement investigating family history (genealogy programs on the computer and a lot of physical and online research). I improved my marksmanship skills; that is another item I do off and on over the years. When I get as good as I think I can be, I lose interest for a couple of years and then start the cycle over again. I was on an exercise binge for a while until I realized that everyone who exercises a lot dies So, to answer your question in a very broad sense, I have tried to focus on my physical, emotional, mental and spiritual development in ways that are interesting and beneficial to myself and others.
In retirement I kept the same health insurance that I had while I was working. My company subsidizes retirees medical and dental insurance but when I retired, I picked up a larger share of the premiums. That lasted from the time I retired until Medicare kicked in at which time my company insurance became the secondary or supplemental. Then, for 2013 my company decided to get out of the health insurance game and just give the retirees a fixed sum of money that the retiree could use to buy their own supplemental plan. My company also made an arrangement with an insurance broker to help us find the right plan for our personal needs and desires (i.e. basic plan or Cadillac plan or something in between) and handle the reimbursements from the company subsidy.
Kriegsspiel,
I finished up my working career in northern Delaware and thus far, have chosen to remain here. It is a relatively retiree friendly state. The medical and dental care in the area is excellent, which is increasingly important; also we really like our doctors/dentist and I have heard a few horror stories from my friends about their doctors refusing to take Medicare aged patients - so far that has not happened in our area, perhaps since there are a large number of retirees here???? Our friends are mostly here. We really like our church. Our son and family live within a couple hour's drive. Most anything we want to do is reasonably close and if we want to travel (daughter and family live on west coast), there are major airports near by that have competitive airlines pricewise. The climate is relatively moderate and we enjoy the four seasons (usually) but I must say the older I get the less appealing temperature extremes and snow become.
WiseOne,
Thanks for the tip on expensive cat food. I will have to check out dry dog food or perhaps just rummage through the neighborhood trash cans if desparation sets in.
... Mountaineer
So, Mountaineer....
You gave us all the 13 year update (above). What is the update nearly six years since?
What have you stopped doing? Continued doing? Starting doing (subsequent to the above)?
One question I have for you is related to something that has kept me working many years and many hours past the time when I needed the income. I have done it for both the challenge and the sense of accomplishment I get from the work I do. From just reading the above, I have to assume that in your work career you had tons of challenges which you met and which regularly was giving you that sense of accomplishment.
Therefore I was surprised to read (above or elsewhere) that you completely stopped working (and at the age of 56). Do you still get challenged and have a similar sense of accomplishment in all the things you have done since?
Vinny
Vinny
Situation still about the same; thanks be to God that my health and that of my wife remain good. I trust myself to not get bored. I still get challenged and still have a similar sense of accomplishment. I'm still involved in church work and exploring theology, still go out a lot with friends to restaurants, still visit family, still maintain the house - although the bigger jobs I don't do as much as I used to, still have a very simple portfolio, still not eating expensive cat food (hat tip to WiseOne!), still preparing my self to die and spend eternity with Jesus , and I'm still "prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect". What have I stopped doing? Mainly not watching the news much, what passes for "news" just encourages anxiety - see Matthew 6:25-34. A simple visual for how I view this life and the life to come is the Cross - the horizontal deals with relationships with others, the vertical deals with relationship with God, the center intersecting point that holds it all together is Jesus. Life now is good; life to come is awesome!
Thanks for asking.
Mountaineer
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
So, to answer your question in a very broad sense, I have tried to focus on my physical, emotional, mental and spiritual development in ways that are interesting and beneficial to myself and others.