I'd say that Prothero would say the question itself is an example of a Christian conception of religion. Christianity is uniquely focused on sin and salvation to be mediated via belief in correct doctrine. His argument is that other religions are not nearly as focused on orthodoxy and explore other aspects of humanity, such as Confucianism and a well ordered society (Confucius had zero interest in cosmology or metaphysics).
On my end, as a non-dogmatic atheist, I'd say that there might be some wide laws of psychology, but the human mind - and society - is extremely malleable. As such, I'm not inclined to put much notion into the idea of spiritual laws, at least anything more detailed than "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
Of course there are pathologies, mental illness and societal chaos, that result in dire outcomes. But outside of those edge cases, I think the human experience is quite variable.
to pull from the original premise of this forum, selecting an investment portfolio is mix of divination with a scientific flavor...and look at all the different portfolios that the members on this forum have landed upon, even though we were all drawn to this place due to Mr. Browne's PP.
Figuring Out Religion
Moderator: Global Moderator
Re: Figuring Out Religion
1/n weirdo. US-TSM, US-SCV, Intl-SCV, LTT, STT, GLD (+ a little in MF)
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vnatale
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Re: Figuring Out Religion
joypog wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:11 am
I'd say that Prothero would say the question itself is an example of a Christian conception of religion. Christianity is uniquely focused on sin and salvation to be mediated via belief in correct doctrine. His argument is that other religions are not nearly as focused on orthodoxy and explore other aspects of humanity, such as Confucianism and a well ordered society (Confucius had zero interest in cosmology or metaphysics).
On my end, as a non-dogmatic atheist, I'd say that there might be some wide laws of psychology, but the human mind - and society - is extremely malleable. As such, I'm not inclined to put much notion into the idea of spiritual laws, at least anything more detailed than "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
Of course there are pathologies, mental illness and societal chaos, that result in dire outcomes. But outside of those edge cases, I think the human experience is quite variable.
to pull from the original premise of this forum, selecting an investment portfolio is mix of divination with a scientific flavor...and look at all the different portfolios that the members on this forum have landed upon, even though we were all drawn to this place due to Mr. Browne's PP.
However taking it out of the realm of which spiritual laws apply to us while we are all living .... and strictly focusing on what happens to you when you die ... do you think that the same set of spiritual laws apply to all of us when we die? I cannot imagine it to be any other way.
If it is true that we simply vanish and there is no afterlife, how can that apply to some but not to others?
If we can make choices now which result in us ending up in Heaven or Hell, how can that not apply to all?
If we experience reincarnation, how can that not apply to all?
Again, I'm stating that the same set of physical laws apply to us irrespective to our beliefs of what they might be.
Seems logical that when we die, we'd all be subject to the same set of spiritual (or death) laws that exist irrespective of what our beliefs are.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
Re: Figuring Out Religion
If there is a metaphysical reality beyond the here and now, then yes it would apply to all people. However I also believe it's unimportant (except for the religions that make a big deal out of it).
It's like the literal inerrancy of the Bible. The book is self contradictory without mental gymnastics that would make a sophist proud. But does that fact really matter all that much? It depends. For some it means everything, for others it means nothing. And that stance does not determine whether one is a Christian or not - and that's for a religion that generally prizes orthodoxy.
It's like the literal inerrancy of the Bible. The book is self contradictory without mental gymnastics that would make a sophist proud. But does that fact really matter all that much? It depends. For some it means everything, for others it means nothing. And that stance does not determine whether one is a Christian or not - and that's for a religion that generally prizes orthodoxy.
1/n weirdo. US-TSM, US-SCV, Intl-SCV, LTT, STT, GLD (+ a little in MF)
Re: Figuring Out Religion
When the South Loosens its Bible Belt
Interesting Russell Moore opinion piece about the secularization of Southern Christianity.
I generally agree with the proposition that a churchless Christianity is much more dangerous to the republic - and to christianity - than a churched version.
I also agree with the Skye Jethani's comment in the Holy Post podcast that the church needs to actively denounce such heresy (discussion at the article at the 25:55 mark). After all, Paul was much harsher on apostates than on the pagans around him.
Interesting Russell Moore opinion piece about the secularization of Southern Christianity.
I generally agree with the proposition that a churchless Christianity is much more dangerous to the republic - and to christianity - than a churched version.
I also agree with the Skye Jethani's comment in the Holy Post podcast that the church needs to actively denounce such heresy (discussion at the article at the 25:55 mark). After all, Paul was much harsher on apostates than on the pagans around him.
1/n weirdo. US-TSM, US-SCV, Intl-SCV, LTT, STT, GLD (+ a little in MF)
Re: Figuring Out Religion
It is an old story that, while we may need somebody like Dominic to convert the heathen to Christianity, we are in even greater need of somebody like Francis, to convert the Christians to Christianity.
-GK Chesterton, Chapter 1, Saint Thomas Aquinas
-GK Chesterton, Chapter 1, Saint Thomas Aquinas
1/n weirdo. US-TSM, US-SCV, Intl-SCV, LTT, STT, GLD (+ a little in MF)
Re: Figuring Out Religion
Jonathan Tjarks, a basketball reporter, just passed away at the young age of 34. He wrote two articles about his disease and his faith. The first discusses his diagnosis, and the second discusses his family. Powerful stuff, especially the one about his son.
The Long Night of the Soul
Does my Son Know You?
He was also interviewed on the Good Faith Podcast in March.
The Long Night of the Soul
Does my Son Know You?
He was also interviewed on the Good Faith Podcast in March.
1/n weirdo. US-TSM, US-SCV, Intl-SCV, LTT, STT, GLD (+ a little in MF)
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Mountaineer
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Re: Figuring Out Religion
Thank you! Powerful words indeed. Haven’t listened to the podcast yet but the articles are great.joypog wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:28 pm Jonathan Tjarks, a basketball reporter, just passed away at the young age of 34. He wrote two articles about his disease and his faith. The first discusses his diagnosis, and the second discusses his family. Powerful stuff, especially the one about his son.
The Long Night of the Soul
Does my Son Know You?
He was also interviewed on the Good Faith Podcast in March.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
Re: Figuring Out Religion
They were great articles.
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Mountaineer
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Re: Figuring Out Religion
Nice article by Chuck Norris (a.k.a. Walker, Texas Ranger) re. the Queen and her death.
https://www.wnd.com/2022/09/queens-top- ... faith-god/
"My wife, Gena, and I extend our heartfelt condolences to the Royal Family, the residents of Great Britain, Europe and indeed the world in the passing of Queen Elizabeth II, the longest-reigning monarch in British history.
When we heard last Thursday that the queen died at the age of 96, my first thought was how much she reminded me of my 101-year-old mom, Wilma Norris Knight. They both represent a bygone era of class, compassion, humility and service to God and country (in that order) that we desperately need today.
What many in the U.S. may not realize is that the queen of England bears as unique a role with religion as she does in politics."
See the link above to read the entire article.
https://www.wnd.com/2022/09/queens-top- ... faith-god/
"My wife, Gena, and I extend our heartfelt condolences to the Royal Family, the residents of Great Britain, Europe and indeed the world in the passing of Queen Elizabeth II, the longest-reigning monarch in British history.
When we heard last Thursday that the queen died at the age of 96, my first thought was how much she reminded me of my 101-year-old mom, Wilma Norris Knight. They both represent a bygone era of class, compassion, humility and service to God and country (in that order) that we desperately need today.
What many in the U.S. may not realize is that the queen of England bears as unique a role with religion as she does in politics."
See the link above to read the entire article.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Mountaineer
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Re: Figuring Out Religion
From Portals of Prayer:
Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.”
JOHN 6:68
On the heels of a hard teaching, many of Jesus’ disciples turned inward with discontented complaining. To them, His words were a “hard saying.” The Greek here means “hard to accept,” not hard to understand. They got Jesus’ meaning; they just didn’t like it. Feathers ruffled, they responded from offended feelings and turned away from Jesus. There was another reaction, however. When faced with a hard message, Peter’s response was not to turn inward and grumble but to turn outward with acceptance. Rather than sifting Jesus’ message through the filter of human reasoning and emotion, Peter brought human reasoning and emotion under the authority of the message. In doing so, he set the pattern for all Christ-followers: we must align ourselves to Jesus, not the other way around.
Jesus fulfills all the prophecies of a Savior, and there is no greater message than the one He brings. This means that we accept Jesus’ words even when they are hard to hear, for they are life itself. We do not craft Him into our image; rather, we submit ourselves to Him. It may be unpopular, but truth often is. No matter how much time passes or what the current cultural climate is, Jesus’ words are still true and life-giving, sufficient for all people across all time.
Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.”
JOHN 6:68
On the heels of a hard teaching, many of Jesus’ disciples turned inward with discontented complaining. To them, His words were a “hard saying.” The Greek here means “hard to accept,” not hard to understand. They got Jesus’ meaning; they just didn’t like it. Feathers ruffled, they responded from offended feelings and turned away from Jesus. There was another reaction, however. When faced with a hard message, Peter’s response was not to turn inward and grumble but to turn outward with acceptance. Rather than sifting Jesus’ message through the filter of human reasoning and emotion, Peter brought human reasoning and emotion under the authority of the message. In doing so, he set the pattern for all Christ-followers: we must align ourselves to Jesus, not the other way around.
Jesus fulfills all the prophecies of a Savior, and there is no greater message than the one He brings. This means that we accept Jesus’ words even when they are hard to hear, for they are life itself. We do not craft Him into our image; rather, we submit ourselves to Him. It may be unpopular, but truth often is. No matter how much time passes or what the current cultural climate is, Jesus’ words are still true and life-giving, sufficient for all people across all time.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Mountaineer
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Re: Figuring Out Religion
Title: WAITING, HOPING, LONGING
Scripture #1: Romans 8:25–27
But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Scripture #2: Luke 2:25–26
And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.
Poetry & Poet:
“Prayer”
by John Frederick Nims
We who are nothingness can never be filled:
Never by orchards on the blowing sea,
Nor the rich foam of wheat all summer sunned.
Our hollow is deeper far than treasure can fill:
Helmets of gold swim ringing in the wells
Of our desire as thimbles in the sea.
Love cannot fill us either: children’s love,
Nor the white care of mothers, nor the sweet
Concern of sister nor the effort of friends;
No dream-caress nor actual: the mixed breath,
Lips that fumble in dark and dizzily cling
Till all nerves tighten to the key of love.
The feasted man turns empty eyes about;
The king builds higher on a crumbling base,
His human mouth a weapon; his brain, maps.
The lover awakes in horror: he gropes out
For the known form, and even enfolding, fears
A bed by war or failing blood undone.
For we who are nothingness can nothing hold.
Only solution: come to us, conceiver,
You who are all things, held and holder, come to us,
Come like an army marching the long day
And the next day and week and all that year;
Come like an ocean thundering to the moon,
Drowning the sunken reef, mounting the shore.
Come, infinite answer to our infinite want.
Her ancient crater only the sea can fill.
WAITING, HOPING, LONGING
We stand in the dark—but we are facing the dawn in the East. We can see it coming in the sky, as our picture shows. We are waiting. We are “wait-ers.” We need an “infinite answer to our infinite want.”
As we wait, we are filled with longing, with a need for consolation, like Simeon.
How long, oh Lord? How long?
As we wait, we run out of prayer.
And we find, to our astonishment, that the Holy Spirit has been interceding for us all along—and our prayers of longing become enlivened as we join in the prayers of the Holy Spirit.
He is praying for you right now.
Shocking. Mind-blowing. God Almighty, the Ancient of Days, the “Watcher of Mankind,” as Job calls Him, stoops to intercede for you and me. The Trinity talks amongst Himself on our behalf.
Such a mystery leaves us without words as well. But not without hope.
We will not see Jesus until we die, and so we hope in faith for that day, when we will go Home.
“Here, There, or in the air,” we Moody students used to say to each other as we parted in the 70s, “See you again!” We thought we were so cool. And yet, we meant it, too.
The older I get, the more I long to see Jesus.
For Simeon, it was different…rather than the next big event being death, the next big event was seeing the Messiah. His trajectory was: See the Messiah –> Die –> See the Messiah!
We have his prayer after he had seen and held (!) the baby Jesus: “I’m ready to come Home now, Father, for with these eyes, I have seen the Messiah, the Hope of Israel. I am an eyewitness to the Glory. There’s nothing left for me here, now. I am replete.”
Mary and Joseph recognized a trustworthy soul, and they handed over their precious son to this old stranger. Mary stayed close by, though, close enough for intimate conversation. And holding his Messiah in his wrinkled arms, Simeon prayed and prophesied.
Looking down, he sees his Creator, his Redeemer. And soon, Simeon will see Jesus again—in Eternity, once he dies, falling asleep here and waking in Heaven. He will meet this Savior again, not as a baby, but as a conquering King. And Israel will be consoled, even as Simeon is now.
Think of that meeting and sharing in Heaven: these two Hebrew men who have known both birth and death…Jesus and Simeon.
Simeon sees Jesus and is satisfied. He has waited all his life, day after day, in growing faith in the God Who keeps His promises to console His people, to come to them and make His home with them. The longer he waited, the stronger his faith: “I won’t die until I see my Redeemer.”
It is the Holy Spirit who gave Simeon the patience to wait. It is the Holy Spirit who gives us the patience to suffer long in this life with faith, to be patient and to hope in our God and His promises. Long-suffering, patience, is one fruit that the Holy Spirit develops in us over time. In practice, this looks like perseverance in seemingly unanswered prayer, with watchful expectation—and even suffering with hope.
We don’t give up on opening our hearts to God; indeed, where else would we go? There is no one else who will answer and console us. Like Simeon, we want Him!
Waiting on God demonstrates faith. Waiting instills hope. Waiting for God is predicated on the reality that the invisible spiritual world coexists constantly with the visible physical world, and that God is present and doing something. This faith is the work of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was “upon” Simeon, indeed: our Romans passage tells us that the Holy Spirit intercedes for all the saints as we wait on God.
Stop and sit with this for a minute—for what are you waiting? About what are you praying? God Himself, the Holy Spirit, prays with you and for you, about that very thing! And so, even as we wait, we hope. We know that there is far more to life than what we see and that our Heavenly Father is present and is attending to us and our concerns. And so we wait with hope.
Psychologically speaking, one of the indicators of maturity is the ability to delay gratification—to wait patiently with desire, yet to wait in hope. It takes maturity to be able to tolerate the tension of unfulfilled longing. Simeon embodies this maturity. He has been faithful in the dark. And now, the Light of the World has come, and Simeon recognizes him.
Our Father God has not left us alone. He has put His Spirit in our hearts, we are signed and sealed and waiting for our final deliverance from these mortal bodies into our heavenly bodies. We are waiting to go Home and to see our living Savior face to face, to know as we are known. And so we remind each other of this and tell the good news: “The night of waiting is almost over, dawn is coming in the East, hold on a little longer, King Jesus is coming soon for us. He came once, He will come again.”
He will come for you. He has promised.
Dr. Betsy Barber
Associate Director of the Institute for Spiritual Formation
Associate Professor of Spiritual Formation and Psychology
Talbot School of Theology
Biola University
Scripture #1: Romans 8:25–27
But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Scripture #2: Luke 2:25–26
And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.
Poetry & Poet:
“Prayer”
by John Frederick Nims
We who are nothingness can never be filled:
Never by orchards on the blowing sea,
Nor the rich foam of wheat all summer sunned.
Our hollow is deeper far than treasure can fill:
Helmets of gold swim ringing in the wells
Of our desire as thimbles in the sea.
Love cannot fill us either: children’s love,
Nor the white care of mothers, nor the sweet
Concern of sister nor the effort of friends;
No dream-caress nor actual: the mixed breath,
Lips that fumble in dark and dizzily cling
Till all nerves tighten to the key of love.
The feasted man turns empty eyes about;
The king builds higher on a crumbling base,
His human mouth a weapon; his brain, maps.
The lover awakes in horror: he gropes out
For the known form, and even enfolding, fears
A bed by war or failing blood undone.
For we who are nothingness can nothing hold.
Only solution: come to us, conceiver,
You who are all things, held and holder, come to us,
Come like an army marching the long day
And the next day and week and all that year;
Come like an ocean thundering to the moon,
Drowning the sunken reef, mounting the shore.
Come, infinite answer to our infinite want.
Her ancient crater only the sea can fill.
WAITING, HOPING, LONGING
We stand in the dark—but we are facing the dawn in the East. We can see it coming in the sky, as our picture shows. We are waiting. We are “wait-ers.” We need an “infinite answer to our infinite want.”
As we wait, we are filled with longing, with a need for consolation, like Simeon.
How long, oh Lord? How long?
As we wait, we run out of prayer.
And we find, to our astonishment, that the Holy Spirit has been interceding for us all along—and our prayers of longing become enlivened as we join in the prayers of the Holy Spirit.
He is praying for you right now.
Shocking. Mind-blowing. God Almighty, the Ancient of Days, the “Watcher of Mankind,” as Job calls Him, stoops to intercede for you and me. The Trinity talks amongst Himself on our behalf.
Such a mystery leaves us without words as well. But not without hope.
We will not see Jesus until we die, and so we hope in faith for that day, when we will go Home.
“Here, There, or in the air,” we Moody students used to say to each other as we parted in the 70s, “See you again!” We thought we were so cool. And yet, we meant it, too.
The older I get, the more I long to see Jesus.
For Simeon, it was different…rather than the next big event being death, the next big event was seeing the Messiah. His trajectory was: See the Messiah –> Die –> See the Messiah!
We have his prayer after he had seen and held (!) the baby Jesus: “I’m ready to come Home now, Father, for with these eyes, I have seen the Messiah, the Hope of Israel. I am an eyewitness to the Glory. There’s nothing left for me here, now. I am replete.”
Mary and Joseph recognized a trustworthy soul, and they handed over their precious son to this old stranger. Mary stayed close by, though, close enough for intimate conversation. And holding his Messiah in his wrinkled arms, Simeon prayed and prophesied.
Looking down, he sees his Creator, his Redeemer. And soon, Simeon will see Jesus again—in Eternity, once he dies, falling asleep here and waking in Heaven. He will meet this Savior again, not as a baby, but as a conquering King. And Israel will be consoled, even as Simeon is now.
Think of that meeting and sharing in Heaven: these two Hebrew men who have known both birth and death…Jesus and Simeon.
Simeon sees Jesus and is satisfied. He has waited all his life, day after day, in growing faith in the God Who keeps His promises to console His people, to come to them and make His home with them. The longer he waited, the stronger his faith: “I won’t die until I see my Redeemer.”
It is the Holy Spirit who gave Simeon the patience to wait. It is the Holy Spirit who gives us the patience to suffer long in this life with faith, to be patient and to hope in our God and His promises. Long-suffering, patience, is one fruit that the Holy Spirit develops in us over time. In practice, this looks like perseverance in seemingly unanswered prayer, with watchful expectation—and even suffering with hope.
We don’t give up on opening our hearts to God; indeed, where else would we go? There is no one else who will answer and console us. Like Simeon, we want Him!
Waiting on God demonstrates faith. Waiting instills hope. Waiting for God is predicated on the reality that the invisible spiritual world coexists constantly with the visible physical world, and that God is present and doing something. This faith is the work of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was “upon” Simeon, indeed: our Romans passage tells us that the Holy Spirit intercedes for all the saints as we wait on God.
Stop and sit with this for a minute—for what are you waiting? About what are you praying? God Himself, the Holy Spirit, prays with you and for you, about that very thing! And so, even as we wait, we hope. We know that there is far more to life than what we see and that our Heavenly Father is present and is attending to us and our concerns. And so we wait with hope.
Psychologically speaking, one of the indicators of maturity is the ability to delay gratification—to wait patiently with desire, yet to wait in hope. It takes maturity to be able to tolerate the tension of unfulfilled longing. Simeon embodies this maturity. He has been faithful in the dark. And now, the Light of the World has come, and Simeon recognizes him.
Our Father God has not left us alone. He has put His Spirit in our hearts, we are signed and sealed and waiting for our final deliverance from these mortal bodies into our heavenly bodies. We are waiting to go Home and to see our living Savior face to face, to know as we are known. And so we remind each other of this and tell the good news: “The night of waiting is almost over, dawn is coming in the East, hold on a little longer, King Jesus is coming soon for us. He came once, He will come again.”
He will come for you. He has promised.
Dr. Betsy Barber
Associate Director of the Institute for Spiritual Formation
Associate Professor of Spiritual Formation and Psychology
Talbot School of Theology
Biola University
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
-
dualstow
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Re: Figuring Out Religion
From Vinny’s Found Phone thread:
But, I thought this would be an opportune time, Mountaineer, to mention that I’m reading Bart Ehrman’s ‘Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife.’ I really like it. Was lucky enough to find it for $4 (ebook version), and I see that is still the price right now.
Still gonna burn, though.Mountaineer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:51 pm You guys are honest (by the Lord’s standards). Kudos!
If only all were so this would be a far better country.
But, I thought this would be an opportune time, Mountaineer, to mention that I’m reading Bart Ehrman’s ‘Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife.’ I really like it. Was lucky enough to find it for $4 (ebook version), and I see that is still the price right now.
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Mountaineer
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Re: Figuring Out Religion
Beware of false prophets! Those who twist Scripture are wolves in sheep’s clothing. I too was once sucked in by Ehrman. Hang in there and stay the course.dualstow wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:12 pm From Vinny’s Found Phone thread:
Still gonna burn, though.Mountaineer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:51 pm You guys are honest (by the Lord’s standards). Kudos!
If only all were so this would be a far better country.
But, I thought this would be an opportune time, Mountaineer, to mention that I’m reading Bart Ehrman’s ‘Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife.’ I really like it. Was lucky enough to find it for $4 (ebook version), and I see that is still the price right now.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
-
dualstow
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Re: Figuring Out Religion
Sucked in? I know he's a nonbeliever who was once a born again Christian. You read his book(s) at one time?Mountaineer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:17 pm
Beware of false prophets! Those who twist Scripture are wolves in sheep’s clothing. I too was once sucked in by Ehrman. Hang in there and stay the course.
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Mountaineer
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Re: Figuring Out Religion
Yes. And a video or two.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Mountaineer
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Re: Figuring Out Religion
35. How do we know there is a God?
Reason, nature, and experience all testify to the existence of God.
A. We live in a world that we did not make.
B. All people trust in something to organize their life, seeking meaning and purpose.
C. The universe and all of life is orderly, governed by laws---the "laws of nature."
D. Humanity shares many common moral ideas.
E. Scientific discoveries increase life's deepest mysteries; they do not resolve them.
These universal truths and observations are all best explained when we accept that God exists and is the Creator of all things. Yet, they do not tell us about the gracious nature and character of the true God.
… SC
Reason, nature, and experience all testify to the existence of God.
A. We live in a world that we did not make.
B. All people trust in something to organize their life, seeking meaning and purpose.
C. The universe and all of life is orderly, governed by laws---the "laws of nature."
D. Humanity shares many common moral ideas.
E. Scientific discoveries increase life's deepest mysteries; they do not resolve them.
These universal truths and observations are all best explained when we accept that God exists and is the Creator of all things. Yet, they do not tell us about the gracious nature and character of the true God.
… SC
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
-
Mountaineer
- Executive Member
- Posts: 4960
- Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am
Re: Figuring Out Religion
"Any country grounded in Judaeo-Christian values can't be overthrown until those roots are cut ... Socialism is precisely the religion that must overwhelm Christianity... in the new order, Socialism will triumph by first capturing the culture via infiltration of schools, universities, churches and the media by transforming the consciousness of society." (Antonio Gramsci in his prison notebooks)
From Wikipedia:
Antonio Francesco Gramsci was an Italian Marxist philosopher, journalist, linguist, writer, and politician. He wrote on philosophy, political theory, sociology, history, and linguistics. He was a founding member and one-time leader of the Italian Communist Party. A vocal critic of Benito Mussolini and fascism, he was imprisoned in 1926 where he remained until his death in 1937. During his imprisonment, Gramsci wrote more than 30 notebooks and 3,000 pages of history and analysis. Wikipedia
It's more than a little creepy that Gramsci described what is happening in the United States today. YMMV
From Wikipedia:
Antonio Francesco Gramsci was an Italian Marxist philosopher, journalist, linguist, writer, and politician. He wrote on philosophy, political theory, sociology, history, and linguistics. He was a founding member and one-time leader of the Italian Communist Party. A vocal critic of Benito Mussolini and fascism, he was imprisoned in 1926 where he remained until his death in 1937. During his imprisonment, Gramsci wrote more than 30 notebooks and 3,000 pages of history and analysis. Wikipedia
It's more than a little creepy that Gramsci described what is happening in the United States today. YMMV
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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dualstow
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Re: Figuring Out Religion
I’m reading a weighty tome on North Korea. It’s very interesting to learn that Kim Il-sung, Dear Leader #1 and grandpa of the current Dear Leader, had a Christian background. Both he and his wife came from observant Christian families. He even played the organ for his church.Mountaineer said Gramsci wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 11:05 am Socialism is precisely the religion that must overwhelm Christianity...
Most of this info is swept under the rug for the sake of propaganda and K.I.S. downplayed it in his own memoirs, but enough credible documentation survives. Before the cult of the Kim’s, Christianity was popular, as it remains in South Korea to this day.
In the U.S. we have separation of Church and State. In totalitarian regimes states, there is of course no room for both.
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Mountaineer
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Re: Figuring Out Religion
Very interesting, I did not know that about Dear Leader #1. We have a healthy South Korean Christian presence in our area; our last two church organists were South Korean, and quite talented. FWIW, my wife helps teach Sunday School to little kids. A 7 year old South Korean boy is in her class; he recently came to the US from South Korea. He is extremely smart, reads and speaks English fluently, and knows math and his Bible.dualstow wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 12:25 pmI’m reading a weighty tome on North Korea. It’s very interesting to learn that Kim Il-sung, Dear Leader #1 and grandpa of the current Dear Leader, had a Christian background. Both he and his wife came from observant Christian families. He even played the organ for his church.Mountaineer said Gramsci wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 11:05 am Socialism is precisely the religion that must overwhelm Christianity...
Most of this info is swept under the rug for the sake of propaganda and K.I.S. downplayed it in his own memoirs, but enough credible documentation survives. Before the cult of the Kim’s, Christianity was popular, as it remains in South Korea to this day.
In the U.S. we have separation of Church and State. In totalitarian regimes, there is of course no room for both.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
-
dualstow
- Executive Member
- Posts: 14289
- Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
- Location: synagogue of Satan
- Contact:
Re: Figuring Out Religion
David Suchet has the perfect voice for the New Testament
https://youtu.be/PKiAXVxOm6o
https://youtu.be/PKiAXVxOm6o
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Mountaineer
- Executive Member
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- Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am
Re: Figuring Out Religion
Indeed he does. Thanks for sharing.dualstow wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 6:21 am David Suchet has the perfect voice for the New Testament
https://youtu.be/PKiAXVxOm6o
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.