Figuring Out Religion

[MachineGhost]

1.) Why is God hidden?
2.) Why is man in misery?
3.) How can man know God?

Reminds me trying to prove a negative.  Faith is a bottomless pit of the most arcane, obscure B.S. (just look at what comes out of gold bugs pieholes).  Whatever you decide is true, is thus.

[MachineGhost]

That's the spirit! I think I just witnessed some cynicism leave your body. Regarding an interest in the logistics and mechanics of human experience...I'm reminded of something I read where such navel-gazing was likened to staring at the tracks during a train ride. Sure they're interesting in that you wouldn't get anywhere without them, but stare too long and you'll miss what's passing by out your window.

Hedonism is overrated.

[Fred]

I believe you can have mystical experience divorced from religious mythology.

Absolutely. I once took psilocybin, aka magic mushrooms, and had an experience that I cannot describe in words. The best I can do is to say that it was like I died and I found myself in some realm filled with colors I had never seen before. And then I was expelled from it abruptly with a voice and a powerful presence speaking audibly to me with just one word.

I shared this experience with some of my friends who had taken the same drug before and before I could tell them what the word was, they told it to me. It was just "GO".

So Go Figure. If that ain't mystical I don't know what is.

[Fred]

As I have said before I was once a fairly devout Christian. I read the Bible, prayed, and went to church. Rinse, lather, repeat, for nearly 20 years.

The first of those three things to go was church. The Bible was last. But it's the second one that is the subject of this post - prayer.

It is now my well considered opinion that the continual act of praying to God and thinking that he is listening and will answer your prayers is a borderline form of psychosis. To the believers here I would ask has God ever answered your prayers? I mean, really? If you say you aren't supposed to expect him to answer your prayers I would say what is the point then and also point out that Jesus said, "All things whatsoever you desire when you pray, believe that you receive them and you shall have them".

That never seemed to happen for me, so how does a Christian deal with the fiction? It's simple really - just don't ask for specific things. Keep it vague and nebulous. "God, give me strength" - Voila - now you have a testimony. You prayed for strength and God gave you the strength that you asked for. "God, help my kids to do well on their tests today" - another answered prayer, praise God. Johnny got a C last month and this month he got a B-.

Just don't ask for anything specific or both you and God are going to be embarrassed. My eyes became completely opened to this when I was on a web forum for people dealing with grief and the members would bring in urgent prayer requests that they had received on the internet. I don't wish to mock the noble idea of dealing with grief by thinking of others as this seems like a very good idea but the ridiculousness of these prayer requests eventually occurred to me. The one I remember most is when a prayer request went out for a toddler who had pulled down a fry daddy on himself. I didn't know what a fry daddy was but I do now because I have one. It's just an electric pot that gets hot enough to fry things in. And that little boy somehow manged to pull it down on himself and was now in the hospital.

So I thought to myself, what, specifically, were we supposed to pray for and I almost asked but didn't want to sound like the asshole that I am. First of all, I wanted to ask how many people praying did they think it would it take to get God to wake up from his slumber and do something? And then, if he did, what did we think he could do? Help ease the boy's pain? Comfort the parents? Guide the doctors hands to make the right decisions?

In other words all the usual ridiculous nonsense. The bottom line was nobody really believed that God was listening and was going to do a damn thing about this. This was just a game that Christians play and it was crystal clear to me.

[Xan]

The LCMS's "Theology and Practice of Prayer" is an excellent explanation of Christian prayer:
http://www.lcms.org/Document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=1745
Of particular interest to this discussion would be Chapter 2, pages 23-34.

[Mountaineer]

Excerpt:

The West was caught unprepared by the rise of Islamic State, as it was a decade and a half ago by the attacks of al Qaeda and as the Soviet Union was by the determination of the mujahedeen of Afghanistan in the 1980s. These are among the worst failures of political intelligence in modern times, and the consequences have been disastrous.

The unpreparedness was not accidental. It happened because of a blind spot in the secular mind: the inability to see the elemental, world-shaking power of religion when hijacked by politics. Ever since the rise of modern science, intellectuals have been convinced that faith is in intensive care, about to die or at least rendered harmless by exclusion from the public square.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-to-defe ... 1443798275

Interesting article from the WSJ.

... M

[Maddy]

To the believers here I would ask has God ever answered your prayers? I mean, really? If you say you aren't supposed to expect him to answer your prayers I would say what is the point then and also point out that Jesus said, "All things whatsoever you desire when you pray, believe that you receive them and you shall have them". . .  In other words all the usual ridiculous nonsense. The bottom line was nobody really believed that God was listening and was going to do a damn thing about this. This was just a game that Christians play. . .

Yet many of the people who dismiss prayer as "just another game Christians play" find a great deal of truth in the concept that we create the box we live in and that our manner of thinking can, in a very real sense, change our material circumstances.  Viewed in this light, Yeshua's affirmation that "All things whatsoever you desire when you pray, believe that you receive them and you shall have them" takes on a whole new meaning.

So perhaps it's not the metaphysical relationship between belief, affirmation and reality that should be questioned, but rather the interpretation of the mainstream evangelicals who, once again, have managed to subvert the meaning of an far-reaching esoteric truth to suit their superficial, cookbook-style view of reality.

[dualstow]

This is a longshot, I know, but in the very early 2000s there was a Maddy on a forum called something like askme dot com. I think that was it. Q&A, all topics. There was a Maddy who was an evangelical Christian and very much into her rock band. She played bass or guitar (or both). Would you happen to be that Maddy? Anyway, welcome to the forum.

[Maddy]

I'm afraid I'm nowhere near that exciting. . . or ubiquitous.  Thanks for the welcome.

[Jack Jones]

Meanwhile, since you're the closest thing we have to a real buddhist in this thread, would you mind sharing what aspects of buddhism appeal to you? 

There are many different flavors of Buddhism, so what follows is based on my conception of the Zen tradition.

For one, it's a very personal pursuit. I believe in the primacy of human experience, and I like that if I want to know what the ancients were talking about I can go upstairs, sit on a cushion, and experience it to some extent. Contrast this with Christianity where God is ultimately something out there, unknowable to the average schmuck. There were people in history who have spoken to God and there are representatives of God such as the Pope, and I can go listen to someone who knows more about God preach to me, but the whole authority figure thing doesn't appeal to me. (See Case 21 [1]).

I like the idea of enlightenment and seeing through the delusion that arises in our minds. Although I sometimes wonder if enlightenment is just some sort of unreachable carrot that gets placed in front of you.

I like that the ordinary modes of knowing that I've relied on my whole life get mostly thrown out the window. My efforts to search for meaning through reading words are thwarted by monks who say that "You may know the Old Indian, but you are not allowed to have an understanding of Him. If an ordinary man attains enlightenment, he is a sage. When the sage is concerned about an understanding, he is only an ordinary man." (see the second case 8 [1]). So you're not after an understanding, more of an experiential knowing like learning to dance or play the guitar.

I like the seeming impenetrability of it all. And the occasional flash of knowing. And the sometimes straightforwardness (see case 7 [1])

I like the urgency and weight: "If anyone, like eight-armed Nata who bravely goes straight forward, ventures into Zen practice, no delusion will disturb him. The Indian and Chinese patriarchs will beg for their lives in his commanding presence. If, however, he hesitates even a moment, he is just a person that watches from a narrow window for a speedy horseman to pass by and misses everything in a wink." (from the preface [1])

I like the focus on the great matter of life and death. There is a promise of freedom from birth and death, but not in the sense that you somehow disappear into some paradise. Who are "you" anyway? Is there even a "you" or are you more like a tornado: visible, active, temporary, ultimately empty.

I like the beauty (see case 19 [1]).

Not all the writings are like the Mumonkan, so if it all just seems like nonsense don't write off all of Buddhism. Also, speaking of Buddhism, I've read that Buddhism is what happened when Western academics studied the Eastern beliefs. There was never a "Buddhism" until modern times. So studying these matters as an outsider is difficult because there are biases even in a translation like this.

[1] http://www.csudh.edu/phenom_studies/mum ... monkan.htm

[MachineGhost]

I like that the ordinary modes of knowing that I've relied on my whole life get mostly thrown out the window. My efforts to search for meaning through reading words are thwarted by monks who say that "You may know the Old Indian, but you are not allowed to have an understanding of Him. If an ordinary man attains enlightenment, he is a sage. When the sage is concerned about an understanding, he is only an ordinary man." (see the second case 8 [1]). So you're not after an understanding, more of an experiential knowing like learning to dance or play the guitar.

I say that is just the usual put down those with authority or self-interest say to others so as to not rock the boat.  Being alive involves thinking and experiencing.  But the privilege of being a Homo sapiens is an extraordinary position.  To not use all the gifts available for fear of some imaginary fiction is but a crime.

Dancing or playing the guitar becomes subconscious after the initial learning curve wears off.  Doing so is no more enlightening than any other form of hedonism.

If we're just ultimately here to be hedonists, then that is no different than being a naked ape.  I don't think that makes any sense for the purposes of our reality whatsoever.

[Mountaineer]

This is a podcast on objective truth vs. subjective experience (feelings).  It may particularly appeal to Medium Tex, Pointedstick, Moda, and Machine Ghost.  The hosts of the podcast do a much better job of explaining the issue than I can.  They also get into what happens when one bases his source of comfort, identity, and security on himself.  I think it will be worth the 27 minutes or so of your time to listen, even for the atheists and agnostics, as it provides some interesting concepts to ponder.

http://www.whitehorseinn.org/component/ ... ticle/1068

Excerpt:

You Are What You Feel?  October 4, 2015

When objective truth is no longer valued, subjective experience fills the void and we end up being guided by internal feelings and emotions. The result of this is that even what Scripture refers to as sinful passions and desires (Rom 7:5) are no longer seen as things to be resisted, but in many cases have become the essential ingredients of the twenty-first century self. “What I feel has become synonymous with who I am.” Listen to the hosts discuss this and more in this thoughtful episode.


... Mountaineer

[Jack Jones]

Anyway, the dried dung reference is interesting.  Statements in ancient writings can really be confusing without the context.  (Not that I am providing any correct context here, I'm just thinking that "dried dung" has a negative connotation to most of us, but it may well be meant to convey something very positive here.)

Yeah, very interesting! Another thing I've learned is that there is no "correct context" for these cases. They're written in a way that intentionally foils attempts analyze them. From wikipedia (Koan):

This principle accords with the spiritual source, tallies with the mysterious meaning, destroys birth-and-death, and transcends the passions. It cannot be understood by logic; it cannot be transmitted in words; it cannot be explained in writing; it cannot be measured by reason. It is like the poisoned drum that kills all who hear it, or like a great fire that consumes all who come near it.

Do you still "practice" buddhism these days?

I sit and meditate when I feel like it (which has been maybe once a week lately). I haven't been doing much reading lately either. My wife and I just had our first child.

[Fred]

To the believers here I would ask has God ever answered your prayers? I mean, really? If you say you aren't supposed to expect him to answer your prayers I would say what is the point then and also point out that Jesus said, "All things whatsoever you desire when you pray, believe that you receive them and you shall have them". . .  In other words all the usual ridiculous nonsense. The bottom line was nobody really believed that God was listening and was going to do a damn thing about this. This was just a game that Christians play. . .

Yet many of the people who dismiss prayer as "just another game Christians play" find a great deal of truth in the concept that we create the box we live in and that our manner of thinking can, in a very real sense, change our material circumstances.  Viewed in this light, Yeshua's affirmation that "All things whatsoever you desire when you pray, believe that you receive them and you shall have them" takes on a whole new meaning.

So perhaps it's not the metaphysical relationship between belief, affirmation and reality that should be questioned, but rather the interpretation of the mainstream evangelicals who, once again, have managed to subvert the meaning of an far-reaching esoteric truth to suit their superficial, cookbook-style view of reality.

I have no idea what you are trying to say. I'm sure that all the Christian here could provide some links about the theology of prayer but who really gives much of a shit about that? If you are a Christian and you pray to God then what is your experience with answered prayer? If you receive an urgent prayer request to pray from some person who is suffering do you pray and do u really think God is listening and will answer? I don't give a shit what some theologian or early church father said about it. What do u have to say about it as believer?

[Mountaineer]

To the believers here I would ask has God ever answered your prayers? I mean, really? If you say you aren't supposed to expect him to answer your prayers I would say what is the point then and also point out that Jesus said, "All things whatsoever you desire when you pray, believe that you receive them and you shall have them". . .  In other words all the usual ridiculous nonsense. The bottom line was nobody really believed that God was listening and was going to do a damn thing about this. This was just a game that Christians play. . .

Yet many of the people who dismiss prayer as "just another game Christians play" find a great deal of truth in the concept that we create the box we live in and that our manner of thinking can, in a very real sense, change our material circumstances.  Viewed in this light, Yeshua's affirmation that "All things whatsoever you desire when you pray, believe that you receive them and you shall have them" takes on a whole new meaning.

So perhaps it's not the metaphysical relationship between belief, affirmation and reality that should be questioned, but rather the interpretation of the mainstream evangelicals who, once again, have managed to subvert the meaning of an far-reaching esoteric truth to suit their superficial, cookbook-style view of reality.

I have no idea what you are trying to say. I'm sure that all the Christian here could provide some links about the theology of prayer but who really gives much of a shit about that? If you are a Christian and you pray to God then what is your experience with answered prayer? If you receive an urgent prayer request to pray from some person who is suffering do you pray and do u really think God is listening and will answer? I don't give a shit what some theologian or early church father said about it. What do u have to say about it as believer?

Fred,

I'd say that type of prayer is trying to manipulate God.  A key phrase is "thy will be done".  I've heard far too many of the former type and much fewer of the latter.  Once more, it boils down to "who is going to be God?" - is the person praying willing to accept whatever and whenever answer God wishes to give and whether or not they can understand it, or are they going to get pissed at God when the person they are praying does not do what the praying person wants, e.g. dies? 

... M

[MachineGhost]

This is a podcast on objective truth vs. subjective experience (feelings).  It may particularly appeal to Medium Tex, Pointedstick, Moda, and Machine Ghost.  The hosts of the podcast do a much better job of explaining the issue than I can.  They also get into what happens when one bases his source of comfort, identity, and security on himself.  I think it will be worth the 27 minutes or so of your time to listen, even for the atheists and agnostics, as it provides some interesting concepts to ponder.

This seems like another attack on the LiberalCultFreaks that conservatives are obsessed with (for good reason).

[Fred]

Yet many of the people who dismiss prayer as "just another game Christians play" find a great deal of truth in the concept that we create the box we live in and that our manner of thinking can, in a very real sense, change our material circumstances.  Viewed in this light, Yeshua's affirmation that "All things whatsoever you desire when you pray, believe that you receive them and you shall have them" takes on a whole new meaning.

So perhaps it's not the metaphysical relationship between belief, affirmation and reality that should be questioned, but rather the interpretation of the mainstream evangelicals who, once again, have managed to subvert the meaning of an far-reaching esoteric truth to suit their superficial, cookbook-style view of reality.

I have no idea what you are trying to say. I'm sure that all the Christian here could provide some links about the theology of prayer but who really gives much of a shit about that? If you are a Christian and you pray to God then what is your experience with answered prayer? If you receive an urgent prayer request to pray from some person who is suffering do you pray and do u really think God is listening and will answer? I don't give a shit what some theologian or early church father said about it. What do u have to say about it as believer?

Fred,

I'd say that type of prayer is trying to manipulate God.  A key phrase is "thy will be done".  I've heard far too many of the former type and much fewer of the latter.  Once more, it boils down to "who is going to be God?" - is the person praying willing to accept whatever and whenever answer God wishes to give and whether or not they can understand it, or are they going to get pissed at God when the person they are praying does not do what the praying person wants, e.g. dies? 

... M

It sounds to me that you are reading into my post that God didn't answer my prayer for someone not to die and now I am pissed at God. It doesn't surprise me at all that you would think that. My impression of you is that you are the type of person who would have all kinds of explanations to offer Job about the error of his ways. The fact is that in my own grief situation I never said any such prayer and was relieved when the person finally died.

My example was a prayer request for a child scalded with grease. My observation was that the believers didn't really believe that God would answer their prayers for him to have compassion on the child and since they had to put out an urgent request for as many people as possible to pray I had to question if they even thought he was listening.

Personally, if this is really what God is like I have to agree with the person who concluded that the bastard doesn't exist. If I die and find out there is a God I have to think he will agree.

[MachineGhost]

There's been some alleged studies showing that group praying "works", but not because they're calling upon a "God", but because they're directing positive energy to the person in need.  That seems more in line with actual reality to me than praying to a "God" and having it personally answer.  What arrogance to think everyone has a direct personal hotline to a diety!

[Mountaineer]

I have no idea what you are trying to say. I'm sure that all the Christian here could provide some links about the theology of prayer but who really gives much of a shit about that? If you are a Christian and you pray to God then what is your experience with answered prayer? If you receive an urgent prayer request to pray from some person who is suffering do you pray and do u really think God is listening and will answer? I don't give a shit what some theologian or early church father said about it. What do u have to say about it as believer?

Fred,

I'd say that type of prayer is trying to manipulate God.  A key phrase is "thy will be done".  I've heard far too many of the former type and much fewer of the latter.  Once more, it boils down to "who is going to be God?" - is the person praying willing to accept whatever and whenever answer God wishes to give and whether or not they can understand it, or are they going to get pissed at God when the person they are praying does not do what the praying person wants, e.g. dies? 

... M

It sounds to me that you are reading into my post that God didn't answer my prayer for someone not to die and now I am pissed at God. It doesn't surprise me at all that you would think that. My impression of you is that you are the type of person who would have all kinds of explanations to offer Job about the error of his ways. The fact is that in my own grief situation I never said any such prayer and was relieved when the person finally died.

My example was a prayer request for a child scalded with grease. My observation was that the believers didn't really believe that God would answer their prayers for him to have compassion on the child and since they had to put out an urgent request for as many people as possible to pray I had to question if they even thought he was listening.

Personally, if this is really what God is like I have to agree with the person who concluded that the bastard doesn't exist. If I die and find out there is a God I have to think he will agree.

Fred,

I'm very sorry you took my reply personally.  I thought you were asking a generic question about types of prayer, not a personal situation, and I answered accordingly.  For what it's worth, I am not a fan of the "just pray harder" crowd and I try not to "read in" to what people say.  Reason being, it is not about me; the "pray harder" crowd believes they have to do something to help God.  I believe God gives the gifts He chooses without my help - I try not to put myself on the same level as God. 

I am one to take statements at face value unless there are clear reasons not to; I do not assume people have hidden agendas.  I will believe others until they indicate my trust was not justified.  Life is much simpler that way, and far more peaceful.  I do not see shadows behind every door and suspect someone is there waiting to do me in. 

... M

[Xan]

There's been some alleged studies showing that group praying "works", but not because they're calling upon a "God", but because they're directing positive energy to the person in need.  That seems more in line with actual reality to me than praying to a "God" and having it personally answer.  What arrogance to think everyone has a direct personal hotline to a diety!

Aren't you the fellow who decries "religious mysticism" and belief in anything but science, and now here you are talking about "directing positive energy"?

[MachineGhost]

Aren't you the fellow who decries "religious mysticism" and belief in anything but science, and now here you are talking about "directing positive energy"?

When did I ever say I believe in nothing but science?  "Religious mysticism" is twisting your mind into a pretzel with a bottomless pit of imaginary fabrications.  In contrast, it's rather easy to perform a scientific experiment involving "prayer" and its measurable (or non measurable) effects.

[img width=800]http://judgmentalobserver.files.wordpre ... aysc01.png[/img]

[Mountaineer]

Some thoughts on prayer, to go along with the Lord's Prayer - note the emphasis on "thy will be done" (not my will) in the Lord's Prayer - i.e. God is in charge, not me (ref: Mt 6:5-13):

The Lord's Prayer
Our Father who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name,
thy kingdom come,
thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those
who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom
and the power and the glory
forever and ever. Amen

... M

Prayer is not magic. Prayer is not a calculated means of prying blessings from a grudging God. Prayer is not a demonstration of piety or of one’s worthiness for God’s grace. Prayer is not spiritual currency that swells in value or power as it is multiplied.

Prayer is simply the heartfelt plea of the child of God seeking the help of God—who has already blessed, and will bless again, and who is eager to hear and answer every need expressed.  A “good” prayer, then, is obedience to the command of God to pray, and in the name of Jesus—that is, in basic trust that because of Jesus’ life, death, resurrection, and ongoing intercession, the prayer of a frail and fallen sinner will be heard and honored by the Creator Himself. Prayer works because God makes it work.

Prayer, then, is not more powerful when embellished with lofty language, extended with many words, or repeated with rising fervor. Neither is prayer more effective when offered by many. A thousand pious people or even ten thousand true believers all praying for the same thing has no greater impact on God’s willingness and eagerness to answer than a solitary prayer voiced in humble, obedient faith.

Prayers are, of course, quite rightly offered for all manner of needs and circumstances of those in the congregation or connected to the congregation. It’s good to pray for a niece facing a complicated pregnancy, a couple celebrating a new marriage, a young mother contending with aggressive cancer, and a widower mourning the death of his wife. But these prayers are not better because they are offered by the whole congregation or more readily heard because they came from the mouth of a pastor. And getting more Christians or more congregations in more places to pray for the same thing does not increase the likelihood that God will favorably respond to the petition. Christians pray for one another not to “leverage the power of prayer” but simply because they care about one another. We share one another’s joys and burdens, and in the sharing we inevitably voice those joys, needs, and sorrows to God for the sake of another. That’s what the church does. Christians seek the prayer of others not to enhance the likelihood of success but to be the body of Christ.

So, pray with fervor, and pray frequently—even for the same thing again and again.  The repetition does not increase the value of the prayer but it does fulfill the purpose of prayer—you know a need and you express that need to your Father.  And God hears it . . . every time.  And God answers it . . . every time—not because of you, but because of Jesus.



Emphasis in bold mine.  Edit to add link, mistakenly left out of original post:  http://www.cph.org/b-160-pray-for-me.aspx 

[Fred]

Some thoughts on prayer, to go along with the Lord's Prayer - note the emphasis on "thy will be done" (not my will) in the Lord's Prayer - i.e. God is in charge, not me (ref: Mt 6:5-13):

Don't see how you square your thinking about prayer with Jesus teaching on the subject. I'm thinking of the Canaanite lady who kept pestering Him to heal her daughter, I think it was, and he said he wasn't sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel so don't basically don't bother me lady. She kept pestering until he granted her request and then he said he hadn't found such faith in Israel (I could be confusing several Bible stories). There were several stories in the Gospels like that. The impression I got from those stories was that if God says no, keep trying, because you can change his mind and if you do he'll even commend you for it. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense but that's the way it seemed to me. If you keep saying, "If it be thy will" my impression was that he'd think you were a faithless wimp for quitting so easily.

That's just my impression and as I've said before I mostly just read the Bible when I was a Christian and didn't pay a lot of attention to what others had to say about it. So I'm probably wrong about a lot of the impressions I got. (Some sarcasm intended).

[Mountaineer]

Found this exact essay here (minus the Lord's prayer opening). 

My belief is that it's good practice to credit the original author and include a link when reposting.

Oops!  I thought I had and I completely agree with you.  Must have cut it off when cutting and pasting.  I did not review my post.  Good catch.  Appologies to Dr. Joel Biermann.  I edited original post to include link.

... M

[Mountaineer]

Some thoughts on prayer, to go along with the Lord's Prayer - note the emphasis on "thy will be done" (not my will) in the Lord's Prayer - i.e. God is in charge, not me (ref: Mt 6:5-13):

Don't see how you square your thinking about prayer with Jesus teaching on the subject. I'm thinking of the Canaanite lady who kept pestering Him to heal her daughter, I think it was, and he said he wasn't sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel so don't basically don't bother me lady. She kept pestering until he granted her request and then he said he hadn't found such faith in Israel (I could be confusing several Bible stories). There were several stories in the Gospels like that. The impression I got from those stories was that if God says no, keep trying, because you can change his mind and if you do he'll even commend you for it. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense but that's the way it seemed to me. If you keep saying, "If it be thy will" my impression was that he'd think you were a faithless wimp for quitting so easily.

That's just my impression and as I've said before I mostly just read the Bible when I was a Christian and didn't pay a lot of attention to what others had to say about it. So I'm probably wrong about a lot of the impressions I got. (Some sarcasm intended).

Fred, Jesus was the person who told his disciples how to pray when they asked - Jesus is the one who said the Lord's Prayer; how can this prayer, a model or general pattern for prayer, not be a very important Jesus theological teaching about faith? 

Re. the Canaanite woman, my perception is the account is more about faith and believing that Jesus would grant her request (Gospel) than an emphasis on doing (Law).  It is in contrast to the accounts of Jesus repeatedly chiding His disciples for their lack of faith (Mt 8:26; 14:31; 17:20), another very important Jesus teaching.

Note from my study Bible:  MATTHEW—NOTE ON 15:21–28 This persistent Canaanite woman gains Jesus’ praise for believing that He will help her sick daughter. In time of need, we often either fail to pray with such determination or only ask hesitantly. Instead, we ought to “pray without ceasing” (1Th 5:17). Jesus hears all prayers offered in His name, and He will answer in His own time and way as is best for us. Therefore, we can pray with confidence.

Concordia Publishing House (2009-10-31). The Lutheran Study Bible (Kindle Locations 112206-112209). Concordia Publishing House. Kindle Edition.

... M