I copied the post from the Charlottesville thread as my comments are getting into the religious understanding:
The vast, vast majority of those lifeless bodies were on the Southern side of the border. Why is that? Because the South fought a defensive war against an invading army. I suppose the invading army bears no responsibility; only Lee?
In no way was there a betrayal of the "country". The country as we now know it is what replaced the pre-war USA. Lee's country was Virginia. If Lee had been a traitor, then Davis certainly was, and yet (despite holding him illegally for years) the feds were never able to find a single charge to prosecute Davis (or anyone) with.
Would you (and this is a serious if hypothetical question, really, Desert) support Canada conquering the US in order to put a stop to abortions? And regardless of your answer, would you say that in the post-war now-part-of-Canada US, anybody who wanted to put up a statue memorializing either a great leader of the defense of the US or a memorial to those who died in her defense, is by definition supporting baby-murder, or at least baby-murderers?
Xan, Ok, I have pondered some, but am only going to try to answer the second part of your post, the hypothetical. I think it's a really well-posed hypothetical question that does relate pretty well to this topic. I'll have to come back to the first part, after I've studied more regarding the initiation of the Civil War.
Ok, Canada (in this hypothetical situation, having found a moral imperative to cease abortion in North America), decides to attach the United States in an effort to stop abortion in our country. Would I support Canada in such an effort? I think I have to say "yes," but only if I think they have some chance of prevailing. Obviously the Canada that exists today wouldn't have any chance, so I'll postulate a Canada of somewhat superior military capability, similar to the North vs. the South in the Civil War. So yes, I would be forced to support Canada in that invasion. And I would expect you and Mountaineer to join me.
And of course I would not be in favor of putting monuments of, say, general Schwarzkopf (may God rest his soul), up in town squares if he were leading the opposition. (I couldn't think of a more engaging general at the moment).
Very interesting thought experiment, Xan. I discussed this with my wife. We both came to the same conclusion - Canada invading the US with military force to stop abortion would be one more example of sinful humans trying to play God in an attempt to create heaven on earth. The operative phrase that comes to mind is, "It is finished" and all the ramifications of what that really means. Failing to rightly divide law and gospel combined with perhaps a misunderstanding of the purpose of the civil kingdom vs. the spiritual kingdom can lead to many unintended consequences, regardless of the purity of the intent to stop immoral acts. For what it's worth, I likely would have had a far different response 10 years ago. The Canada/US scenario and question is very insightful and intriguing - as for the statues, it does not make much difference to me; I'd go with whatever the lawful authorities decided to do and ignore those I did not personally like. If the lawful authorities decided to erect them, so be it. If the lawful authorities decided to take them down, so be it. If a mob that is not lawful did something to deface public or private property, I would hope the authorities would act according with the full force of the law. Statue control is not one of my vocations
EDIT: It is probably obvious, but I think any real and lasting change on what it means to truly love our neighbor as ourself has to come from within, a change of heart and mind. Imposing the will of another (individual or nation) does not usually have lasting success; this is in the context of invasions, statues, and our US Civil War. For example, I doubt that Sherman's march to the sea did much to solve the real problem, it just drove the overt feelings underground - otherwise we would not still be fighting the Civil War via statues and flags over 150 years after the fact. As a side note, my wife and I visited Charleston, SC about 15 years ago. We both came away with a strong sense that the resentment of the North was still alive and well. I have never been to a location where the loyalty to the Southern cause was so overtly present - it hung in the air thickly.
Our Pastor preached on this topic of what divides us and the only real solution this past Sunday - A Zeal for All People. I hope you can spare a few minutes to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6K3DoO ... ploademail
Vocation - doing what God has given me to do for the sake of the other.