Mountaineer wrote:
In your post above, the correct grammatical usage is you're, not your.
Thanks for pointing that out. I damn well know the difference between your and you're but lately I find that I type faster than I think.
Will try to avoid incorrect "gramatical" usage in the future.
I am very sorry that I offended you. When I read your posts, it seemed you were writing in the style of a rebellious teenager with a chip on his shoulder, just looking to pick a fight, and perhaps not up on the etiquette and grammatical usage of one more mature; I'm sure you know the type - one who has to use swear words to communicate. My appologies. I will look forward to reading some of your well reasoned posts that express more than anger and vitriolic emotion. There are many who "fire, ready, aim" rather than think through ideas before loosing the tongue (or fingers) so you are definitely not alone, particularly on the Amazon forum I mentioned. And, again I appologize, the old Adam in me springs forth periodically, I truly am a sinner in need of a Savior; thanks be to God that I have one.
... Mountaineer
P.S. Edited to say that I corrected the "grammatical" in my original post on the topic. Apparently you did not appreciate the irony and my for how it was intended.
Last edited by Mountaineer on Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
Mountaineer wrote:
In your post above, the correct grammatical usage is you're, not your.
Thanks for pointing that out. I damn well know the difference between your and you're but lately I find that I type faster than I think.
Will try to avoid incorrect "gramatical" usage in the future.
I am very sorry that I offended you. When I read your posts, it seemed you were writing in the style of a rebellious teenager with a chip on his shoulder, just looking to pick a fight, and perhaps not up on the etiquette and grammatical usage of one more mature; I'm sure you know the type - one who has to use swear words to communicate. My appologies. I will look forward to reading some of your well reasoned posts that express more than anger and vitriolic emotion. There are many who "fire, ready, aim" rather than think through ideas before loosing the tongue (or fingers) so you are definitely not alone, particularly on the Amazon forum I mentioned. And, again I appologize, the old Adam in me springs forth periodically, I truly am a sinner in need of a Savior; thanks be to God that I have one.
... Mountaineer
Fuck you! And the horse of the apocalypse you rode in on.
Last edited by PP4me2 on Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PP4me2 wrote:
Thanks for pointing that out. I damn well know the difference between your and you're but lately I find that I type faster than I think.
Will try to avoid incorrect "gramatical" usage in the future.
I am very sorry that I offended you. When I read your posts, it seemed you were writing in the style of a rebellious teenager with a chip on his shoulder, just looking to pick a fight, and perhaps not up on the etiquette and grammatical usage of one more mature; I'm sure you know the type - one who has to use swear words to communicate. My appologies. I will look forward to reading some of your well reasoned posts that express more than anger and vitriolic emotion. There are many who "fire, ready, aim" rather than think through ideas before loosing the tongue (or fingers) so you are definitely not alone, particularly on the Amazon forum I mentioned. And, again I appologize, the old Adam in me springs forth periodically, I truly am a sinner in need of a Savior; thanks be to God that I have one.
... Mountaineer
Fuck you! And the horse of the apocalypse you rode in on.
PP4Me2,
You really do seem troubled and carrying some kind of a very large burden. I'm sorry. PM me if there is anything I can do to help. Seriously.
... Mountaineer
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
Mountaineer wrote:
You really do seem troubled and carrying some kind of a very large burden. I'm sorry. PM me if there is anything I can do to help. Seriously.
... Mountaineer
Indeed,
To open eyes that are blind,to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.
For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
Last edited by PP4me2 on Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
be nice everybody.. this is a long standing thread, hate to see it locked..
-Government 2020+ - a BANANA REPUBLIC - if you can keep it
-Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
Desert wrote:
Mountaineer, I'm tired of your patience. You're making impatient, reactionary a-holes like me look bad!
PP4Me2, I think you need a nap. You're pretty crabby for someone with only 14 posts. It took me hundreds to reach your level of grouchiness.
Actually I needed a few hours of sleep to wake up from my hangover and carry on. That's about all I get lately in my tormented life so I was grateful.
I remember reading a thread where Mountaineer stood in the gap for you or maybe somebody else and argued that you should not be banned from the forum because of a post which he forgave.
I thought to myself that if he really wanted to be Christ-like he should have offered to have himself banned from the forum. We would probably have all appreciated his sacrifice and gone to church the next day and offered our own miserable live's to Christ as though he would want them.
Mountaineer reminds me of the True Green salesman who is so persistent that he knocks on my door and even calls me at work no matter how hard I insist that I'm not interested in anything he is selling.
There is one big difference between that salesman and Mountaineer however. He doesn't tell me I am going to spend eternity in a place of unending torment if I don't buy what he is selling.
Mountaineer sincerely believes that to be the case with what he is selling. He can obscure it with whatever language he wants but that is what he sincerely believes if he has an honest bone in his body and anybody can read through his posts and determine this for themselves.
Personally, I think he lives in a very dark place and I don't mind him expressing his views here but I don't want him around my children.
Last edited by PP4me2 on Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This is an interesting episode (try to listen to the message and overlook Fisk's animated style if it bothers you) on “Cheap Grace”?, and the false idea that man has to add his works to the saving work of Jesus. One of the things Fisk covers is how preaching only the Law to the unbeliever from the pulpit is not going to change him, it just enrages the unbeliever because it shows him he is incapable of justifying himself. The one without faith who desires to use Jesus as an excuse to continue in sin, with no remorse, is by definition on the track of self-justification. Those with faith are better served by preaching the Gospel.
Fisk also discusses differing worldviews as held by atheists and Christians, and the three questions most worldviews try to answer (who are we, how did we get here, and how do we fix our problems).
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
Desert wrote:
What sort of torment are you dealing with these days? There's nothing more therapeutic than sharing anonymously with hundreds of strangers.
Mostly sitting in a goddamn cubicle every day counting the days until I can retire. Especially after coming back from a vacation that ended with a hike on Mt. Ranier at a place called Paradise.
Nobody is knocking on your door or calling you. You're participatin in a thread about religion. Your arguments are just falling into ad hominems. If you're going to try to attack religious people for using poor logical processes, please try to do the same. Snark here and there is one thing. You're going way overboard dude.
I'll add, while it's certainly one of the more unintuitive, irrational, and seemingly cruel aspects of how God may or may not treat us, sending non-believers to hell just might be the truth. I certainly find it extremely unlikely, but if I end up in hell, I certainly won't blame Mountaineer. He didn't make the rules. God did.
Any moral system, short of pacifism taken to the extreme, usually has one's moral code taken to the point of being willing to cause someone else harm. If Native Americans came marauding through my neighborhood to "take their land back," I would feel morally justified in killing anyone who tried to invade my home. They feel morally justified in taking back what is "rightfully theirs."
So we all have our point at which we are willing to pull a trigger for our moral code (unless, like I said, someone refuses to even defend their sovereign life & property). While I find eternal damnation to be more than inappropriate, I still feel if we're going to converse with people who have experienced revelation (aka, IMHO, halloucination :/), then we should at least try to do so respectfully most of the time. If people are utter irrational idiots, and you have taken it upon yourself to debate those types of people on the internet, you will spend the rest of your life angry in front of a keyboard. It's not worth it dude.
And if you are at a point of discontentment with your life, I suggest you read the following:
1) How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
2) HB's Rule Your World lectures
The ways of thinking presented in those readings have changed the way I approach a lot of aspects of life, not the least of which is debates and associations with people that I just don't respect enough to have a meaningful exchange with.
Last edited by moda0306 on Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."
Can you imagine what this world would be like if everybody believed in Jesus? Now, many of you who have been brought to faith in Jesus as your Savior can probably think of nothing better than to have everyone believe the same. Because we believe as we do, it is difficult for us to understand why the Pharisees, the high priests, and so many other rulers and religions since then have been frightened of the Lord. It is hard for us to comprehend why they want to stop the Savior’s story of salvation and muzzle those who would tell it.
The answer to our bewilderment is simple: those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation will not believe in anyone else. That, my friends, is something they find unacceptable. And so we who have the Gospel Good News, the message that has turned the “world upside down”? (Acts 17:6), must pray for these misdirected rulers and religions and for all the Christians whom they are persecuting.
[Thanks to Portals of Prayer]
... Mountaineer
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
moda0306 wrote:
Wow... This certainly got interesting.
I've lived where Mountaineer has lived so I feel uniquely qualified to comment on his posts.
If he wants to come on this public forum and assert that those who don't share his beliefs are going to spend eternity in a place of eternal torment designed by God then he is free to do so but I don't feel any obligation to respect what he is saying. And furthermore when it comes to debating him on his beliefs if you fall into his trap then you are making a big mistake. He is not open to thinking and reasoning about these things with you. His mind is completely closed to anything you have to say. If you make a good argument against what he says he will go back and check with the church dogma "Word of God" to see how to counter your arguments but he is not seriously entertaining any notion that what he thinks might be wrong.
Believe me. I know.
And reading his last post I think he must have missed his meds.
Last edited by pp4me3 on Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sunday, October 19, 2014
Thoughts On Pro-Life Vs. Pro-Choice Ideology
"Life" [as a gift from God] is the standard (i.e., norm) that informs and guides the "choices" that we make in regard to the issues of life, whereas “choice”? [as a derivative of mankind] cannot be the standard (i.e., norm) that informs and guides the “choices”? that we make in regard to the issues of life.
An ideology that solely and unequivocally bases its “choices”? upon the foundation of “choice,”? consequently dismisses all objective values, principles, morals, and ethics as baseless and inadmissible, thus inadvertently and subsequently implying that the human existence is nothing more than a collection of meaningless and vacuous choices.
A culture where “choices”? founded upon an individual’s supposed authority of “choice,”? eventually leads to “my truth”? versus “your truth,”? which really is a rejection of objective truth. Tragically, a culture without any grasp of objective truth is a culture grounded in the most terrifying worldview imaginable, Nihilism. A Nihilistic culture that deconstructs objective truth to the point of individualistic choice, is a culture that is destined to collapse inward on itself and die.[1]
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
Interesting article in National Geographic about Middle Eastern religions. Even more interesting comments - some quite vitriolic. What it is about a discussion of religion that brings out the worst in people? A religious discussion seems to provoke a visceral reaction that is much deeper than "I drive the BEST car ever made, or my wife is prettier than your wife" - perhaps this is an indication there really is a mighty struggle going on between good and evil on this side of death as the devil fights the battle that has already been won by Christ.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
What are the roots and assumptions of secularism and why does this system of belief maintain such a stronghold in Western culture? Why are the other worldviews competing for our acceptance and how are we to know which one is true? On this program, Michael Horton will be speaking with Claremont University professor Mary Poplin about her abandonment of secularism and her subsequent conversion to the Christian faith.
Listen to the 34 minute program audio file included in the link below. Very interesting discussion of various world views that are frequently expressed in this forum.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
What are the roots and assumptions of secularism and why does this system of belief maintain such a stronghold in Western culture? Why are the other worldviews competing for our acceptance and how are we to know which one is true? On this program, Michael Horton will be speaking with Claremont University professor Mary Poplin about her abandonment of secularism and her subsequent conversion to the Christian faith.
Listen to the 34 minute program audio file included in the link below. Very interesting discussion of various world views that are frequently expressed in this forum.
pp4me3 wrote:
Yes indeed. Life is all about searching for the correct worldview isn't it?
Searching for it or living it, definitely.
When Christians talk about the correct worldview I always think they are talking about their religious doctrines which they think are the correct ones, beyond dispute.
They remind me a lot of Obama in this way - not that they have the same worldview as him but they have the same ideological blinders and will accept no other interpretations.
pp4me3 wrote:
Yes indeed. Life is all about searching for the correct worldview isn't it?
Searching for it or living it, definitely.
When Christians talk about the correct worldview I always think they are talking about their religious doctrines which they think are the correct ones, beyond dispute.
They remind me a lot of Obama in this way - not that they have the same worldview as him but they have the same ideological blinders and will accept no other interpretations.
So your worldview is that every worldview is wrong? Except for that one, I suppose.
Desert wrote:
Searching for it or living it, definitely.
When Christians talk about the correct worldview I always think they are talking about their religious doctrines which they think are the correct ones, beyond dispute.
They remind me a lot of Obama in this way - not that they have the same worldview as him but they have the same ideological blinders and will accept no other interpretations.
I guess we all think our personal worldview is the correct one; after-all, we're betting our life on it, in essence. For Christians, I think there's a fine line (which I have yet to find) between sharing the good news and being a PITA.
Contrast that with politics, where the very success of the worldview depends on convincing the masses, so that power can be obtained or strengthened. The older I get, the less I put my hope in a changed government. I'm getting pretty close to the point where I think I can ignore creatures with names like Obama or Bush, and spend my calories on something worthwhile.
Well said; I too am betting my life on a worldview based on the promises of one bigger than myself, and I too am learning to be at peace regardless of our human overseers.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
I have been reflecting on many of the posts in the voter ID, abortion, send Obama a message, etc. threads. I thought the words from the introduction to a Bible study on Amos might be appropriate to share as "food for thought" whether you are a Bible scholar or not.
The book of Amos has remarkable relevance to modern times. God continues to speak through Amos today. God's Word can become uncomfortable, especially as God's Law does what it is intended to do - show us our sin.
Western democracies, including the United States and Canada, are some of the richest, strongest, and most advanced countries on earth. Will they always remain so? Can they lose their initiative, capacity, and strength? What can history teach us about this? How does the prophetic Word show that arrogant empires lie in the dust?
Amos prophesied to the kingdom of Israel about 760 B.C., “the swift will not escape, the strong will not muster their strength”?. Because of Israel’s sins, God intervened to say, “I will crush you as a cart crushes when loaded with grain”?. Many factors can contribute to the decline of a nation. Usually the inner collapse of religious faith and morals precedes the defeat of military forces. Society, like nature, exists within a vacuum. when godliness moves out, greed moves in. Complacency takes the place of concern.
For the kingdom of Israel, abandoning God and the relationship He had established with it, led to moral collapse. The latter became evident in the devaluation of human beings, as common people were subjected to poverty, and in the values held by men under holy vows. Intemperance, abuse of sex, and profanation of God’s house were also common practices. Do these sins sound familiar? Do they create problems that further undermine the spiritual and moral strength of a nation? We are reminded of the words of James: “Have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? ... You have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? … Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of Him to whom you belong?”?
So, to my unbelieving friends on this forum, I will repeat a post I made in the abortion thread: I know that what you are telling me about "there is no God" or "maybe there is or is not a God" is not true. I know that you know there is a God so I'm not going to argue with you. I'm really sorry that you are angry with God. So, I have a message from God for you. I have good news to tell you. The God that you are suppressing in your unrighteousness loves you. He has unilaterally acted in your behalf to die for your sins and He is calling for you to repent - that is turn from your sinful ways, believe in Him and be forgiven. I know that you are angry with Him right now but He wants you to believe and live.
To my believing friends on this forum, I say "Let us keep our faith in the promises of Jesus". No matter what happens in this broken world, we are "good to go" with God and can eagerly look forward to the Last Day while enjoying our life to the fullest on this side of Heaven as we do our best to adhere to God's will. No matter what missteps we take today, we repent, enjoy a restful night's sleep, and look forward to rising tomorrow with a fresh start when we reflect in the waters of our Baptism and know we have been chosen to be in the kingdom of God. Our struggles will one day end and our future is wonderful beyond imagining.
Peace to all.
... Mountaineer
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
So you are claiming that anyone who claims not to believe in God or questions his existence actually does believe in God... but that we are actually angry with God.
That's quite a claim.
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."
So you are claiming that anyone who claims not to believe in God or questions his existence actually does believe in God... but that we are actually angry with God.
That's quite a claim.
Indeed it is my friend, indeed it is, but my words were actually "you know there is a God"; it is built into our DNA (or whatever it is). You know it as clearly as you know anything else about yourself and is intuitively obvious when you look at your surroundings from the deepest part within you to the furthest object we can observe; even the Egyptians and Greeks (e.g. Aristotle) and our Diest US founding fathers knew there was a god as do pagans throughout history.
... Mountaineer
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
So you are claiming that anyone who claims not to believe in God or questions his existence actually does believe in God... but that we are actually angry with God.
That's quite a claim.
Indeed it is my friend, indeed it is, but my words were actually "you know there is a God"; it is built into our DNA (or whatever it is). You know it as clearly as you know anything else about yourself and is intuitively obvious when you look at your surroundings from the deepest part within you to the furthest object we can observe; even the Egyptians and Greeks (e.g. Aristotle) and our Diest US founding fathers knew there was a god as do pagans throughout history.
... Mountaineer
So your argument that God saw fit to put in all humans an innate knowledge of his presence, and some people are simply rejecting that knowledge, or are angry at God...
That's certainly possible. But your argument, like most religious ones, is simply an arbitrary statement of fact based on loose inductive evidence and logic. When humans make a habit of accepting those types of assertions, they find themselves in a sea of bullshit that they can't swim out of. I'm surprised God would present himself in such a way that took such logical leaps for us to even be aware of his presence, much less what he actually wants from us.
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."
Mountaineer wrote:
Indeed it is my friend, indeed it is, but my words were actually "you know there is a God"; it is built into our DNA (or whatever it is). You know it as clearly as you know anything else about yourself and is intuitively obvious when you look at your surroundings from the deepest part within you to the furthest object we can observe; even the Egyptians and Greeks (e.g. Aristotle) and our Diest US founding fathers knew there was a god as do pagans throughout history.
I don't want to belabor the obvious, but do you really think pre-Enlightenment religious mysticism without the benefit of repeatable, observable, objective evidence garned by the non-privileged qualifies as fact?
Do you realize you are are nothing but a walking 90%-microbe ecosystem on an insignificant planet in an insignificant solar system among hundreds of billions of stars among hundreds of billions of galaxies and which totals only about 5% as the 180 billion light year wide observable universe?
The utterly sheer arrogance that you personally and specially know there is a "God" concept and what exactly it is from a bunch of anthropomorphized human scribbles from thousands of years ago endlessly derived from Sumerian origin myths, is infinite.
Even if you are luckily right about the "God" concept, you are also so hopelessly and so utterly wrong in even beginning to understand what exactly it is. Dems da breaks.
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Last edited by MachineGhost on Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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