Peter Schiff Was Right (again)

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Libertarian666
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Re: Peter Schiff Was Right (again)

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:12 pm

MediumTex wrote:
notsheigetz wrote:
MediumTex wrote: If you explained to some 30 year old that the idea is to make the 30 year olds pay more into the system than they get out so that the 50 year olds can get more out than they pay in, I can imagine him saying something like:

"Okay.  Are the 50 year olds going to be helping the 30 year olds pay off their student loan debt as well?  I mean, that's fair, right?  The 50 year olds didn't have to run up a bunch of student loan debt when they were in school because college was way cheaper 30 years ago than it is today, just like health care for the 50 year olds was a lot cheaper 30 years ago than it is today.  Why do I have to subsidize their rising costs if they aren't willing to subsidize mine?"
Basically, I think you are saying that once the 30-year-olds understand how socialism really works, as opposed to what they have been led to believe during their years of youthful indoctrination, they won't like it so well.

I think this is very possible, and maybe even probable.
Yeah, a lot of things are going to suck going forward for people in the 25-45 age group right now.

They are still struggling with the own student loans and they will soon be trying to send their own kids to college.  During the remainder of their careers they will also have to pay enough in taxes for the government to support a vastly expanded population of old people who are no longer working.
Have to? Any government program can be terminated without notice if you get a working majority with Congress and the President. In another 20 years or so there aren't going to be that many old people relative to the younger ones, who are going to be very tired of paying for everything.
MediumTex wrote: To add insult to injury, members of this generation of people who have had (and will continue to have) so many hands in their pockets, whose members have gone off to fight and get blown up all over the world in dumb wars, who will be paying many of the bills for the generation that came before them as well as the generation that will come after them, who don't have access to the defined benefit pension plans that their parents and grandparents did, and who have had mostly crappy investment performance their entire investing careers (which will make it much harder for them to retire than it was for their parents) are commonly thought of as slackers.
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Re: Peter Schiff Was Right (again)

Post by Pointedstick » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:17 pm

notsheigetz wrote: The whole student loan/cost of education thing boggles my mind. I managed to save enough money working part-time as a busboy in high school to pay my tuition at the Ohio State University. My how things have changed.

I have co-workers about 10 years younger than me putting kids through college without loans and although they don't share the full extent of it I get the impression it is VERY expensive.
It's like $50k+ for a public school and $150k+ for a private school. I know someone who's currently attending a private liberal arts school (the worst offenders IMHO) whose total cost is in the realm of $250k I believe. Don't ask if she's studying anything of economic value. You really don't want to know.

The good news is that if you're poor, schools with a high endowment will often waive much or all of the cost. The bad news is that if you were responsible and saved the money, they just take it. Surprise! >:(
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Re: Peter Schiff Was Right (again)

Post by Kshartle » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:41 am

Pointedstick wrote:
notsheigetz wrote: The whole student loan/cost of education thing boggles my mind. I managed to save enough money working part-time as a busboy in high school to pay my tuition at the Ohio State University. My how things have changed.

I have co-workers about 10 years younger than me putting kids through college without loans and although they don't share the full extent of it I get the impression it is VERY expensive.
It's like $50k+ for a public school and $150k+ for a private school. I know someone who's currently attending a private liberal arts school (the worst offenders IMHO) whose total cost is in the realm of $250k I believe. Don't ask if she's studying anything of economic value. You really don't want to know.

The good news is that if you're poor, schools with a high endowment will often waive much or all of the cost. The bad news is that if you were responsible and saved the money, they just take it. Surprise! >:(
Wait the government scheme to help make higher education more affordable and achievable for young people has resulted in skyrocketing prices and worthless degrees? Who could have predicted that government subsidies would lead to higher prices and over-supply?

hmmmmmm?

What is going to happen with heathcare now? hmmmmmm

Maybe if the government can just borrow and spend we can have a "beautiful deleveraging".
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Re: Peter Schiff Was Right (again)

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:44 am

Kshartle wrote: Wait the government scheme to help make higher education more affordable and achievable for young people has resulted in skyrocketing prices and worthless degrees? Who could have predicted that government subsidies would lead to higher prices and over-supply?
All of us here?
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Re: Peter Schiff Was Right (again)

Post by Libertarian666 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:53 am

Pointedstick wrote:
Kshartle wrote: Wait the government scheme to help make higher education more affordable and achievable for young people has resulted in skyrocketing prices and worthless degrees? Who could have predicted that government subsidies would lead to higher prices and over-supply?
All of us here?
Most maybe, but somehow I doubt "all".
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Re: Peter Schiff Was Right (again)

Post by Kshartle » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:55 am

Pointedstick wrote:
Kshartle wrote: Wait the government scheme to help make higher education more affordable and achievable for young people has resulted in skyrocketing prices and worthless degrees? Who could have predicted that government subsidies would lead to higher prices and over-supply?
All of us here?
That would be nice but sadly there are still people here that think government spending can somehow help something. Redistributing wealth, preventing prices from falling, doing this scheme or that. Many posters still think wealth and savings come from the gubmit.
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Re: Peter Schiff Was Right (again)

Post by Gumby » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:59 am

Kshartle wrote:
Pointedstick wrote:
Kshartle wrote: Wait the government scheme to help make higher education more affordable and achievable for young people has resulted in skyrocketing prices and worthless degrees? Who could have predicted that government subsidies would lead to higher prices and over-supply?
All of us here?
That would be nice but sadly there are still people here that think government spending can somehow help something. Redistributing wealth, preventing prices from falling, doing this scheme or that. Many posters still think wealth and savings come from the gubmit.
We never said wealth comes from the government. We just said that the currency we use to represent our savings either comes from the government or private credit — which is true. The overwhelming majority of our currency comes from private credit. Government spending pales in comparison.

Obviously the Treasury spending on something will cause that something to rise in prices. That is obvious. We all agree on that.

But, you guys still don't understand the difference between a monetary operation and a fiscal operation. The Fed can only change the composition of our dollar-denominate assets, while the Treasury — for better of for worse — increases our dollar-denominates assets. If you want to argue that Treasury spending is bad, knock yourself out. I'm not arguing the merits of Treasury fiscal spending one way or the other.

But, if you don't think that banks don't "print" the overwhelming majority of the money in our society, you're burying your head in the sand.
Last edited by Gumby on Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Peter Schiff Was Right (again)

Post by Kshartle » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:04 am

Gumby wrote: I'm not arguing the merits of Treasury fiscal spending one way or the other.
Wait how do we get Ray's "beautiful deleveraging"?
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Re: Peter Schiff Was Right (again)

Post by Gumby » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:08 am

Kshartle wrote:
Gumby wrote: I'm not arguing the merits of Treasury fiscal spending one way or the other.
Wait how do we get Ray's "beautiful deleveraging"?
He called it "beautiful". I didn't.

Either way, you need to not get so emotional about the mechanics. We are just describing what happens during "reflation".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflation

Nobody has to like it. It's just what the government does. And truth be told, all this stuff is so wonkish, there is no way to know if any of this is "good" or "bad" until decades from now.
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Re: Peter Schiff Was Right (again)

Post by Kshartle » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:10 am

Gumby wrote:
Kshartle wrote:
Gumby wrote: I'm not arguing the merits of Treasury fiscal spending one way or the other.
Wait how do we get Ray's "beautiful deleveraging"?
He called it "beautiful". I didn't.

Either way, you need to not get so emotional about the mechanics. We are just describing what happens during "reflation".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflation

Nobody has to like it. It's just what the government does. And truth be told, all this stuff is so wonkish, there is no way to know if any of this is "good" or "bad" until decades from now.
Wait I thought his video was slam dunk correct. Are you disagreeing with it or just saying there's no way to know if he's right?
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Re: Peter Schiff Was Right (again)

Post by Gumby » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:13 am

And, ultimately, my main argument is that there is huge difference between Treasury spending (i.e. FISCAL operations) and Federal Reserve swaps (i.e. MONETARY operations).

Treasury spending puts money in people's pockets and dilutes the purchasing power.

Federal Reserve swaps doesn't add any purchasing power to anyone's pockets. It just changes the composition of our savings.

They are two different things. The Fed would have a difficult time raising the cost of tuition, because it can't give people additional savings to pay for college.
Last edited by Gumby on Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Peter Schiff Was Right (again)

Post by Gumby » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:16 am

Kshartle wrote:Wait I thought his video was slam dunk correct. Are you disagreeing with it or just saying there's no way to know if he's right?
The video describes the mechanics of what the monetary system almost perfectly. But, just because the mechanics are correct, doesn't mean the policy is good or bad. You understand the difference, right?

That's why an anarchist should be able to grasp MR. MR doesn't condone the system, it just describes how it operates. You can use that knowledge to oppose the system if you choose.
Nothing I say should be construed as advice or expertise. I am only sharing opinions which may or may not be applicable in any given case.
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