Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

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moda0306
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by moda0306 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:22 pm

Ad Orientem wrote:
moda0306 wrote:
Kshartle wrote: What on Earth does it have to do with the free market?

If Starbucks bribed politicians to force us to buy coffee every morning from them would you call that the free market?

What is your definition of the free market? This is crapitalism. Crony capitalism also know as Fascism, just another version of Statism.
So why don't we just cut the bull and institute single-payer, and if it doesn't work after 8 year people will hate it and we'll go back to what we have now, or maybe even a more capitalist system.
+1
Let's remember that this is all a sliding scale.  Nothing is perfectly capitalistic or perfectly communistic/socialist... well maybe N. Korea is the latter but I bet even they pay doctors more than janitors to try to get them to learn medicine.
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by Benko » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:32 pm

Ad Orientem wrote: I completely agree. Which is why I support (with deep reservations) a single payer system like almost every other country in the civilized world has. Obamacare is a mess. It was an attempt to get everyone insured while bowing to the free market god.
You didn't answer my first point:

If all you/democrats cared about was poor people having access to health care, then the answer is simple, give everyone under a certain income health care to whatever level you desire, and leave everyone else's heath care alone. "

Because your goal is CONTROL, government control over everything and everyone.  To what extent it does or does not help poor people (or harms everyone) is irrevelant.  If I am wrong, explain why what I suggest is not to your liking?

"why don't we just cut the bull and institute single-payer, and if it doesn't work after 8 year people will hate it and we'll go back to what we have now"

it is not possible to go back once it is instituted, and you know that. 
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by Kshartle » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:45 pm

Ad Orientem wrote:
Kshartle wrote:
Ad Orientem wrote: It was an attempt to get everyone insured while bowing to the free market god.
What on Earth does it have to do with the free market?

If Starbucks bribed politicians to force us to buy coffee every morning from them would you call that the free market?

What is your definition of the free market? This is crapitalism. Crony capitalism also know as Fascism, just another version of Statism.
I gather you are also opposed to mandating auto insurance, and you oppose the existence of police departments and fire departments as these are supported by coercive taxation?
Yes I completely oppose theft.
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by MediumTex » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:55 pm

Everyone stay cool.

Thanks.
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by Pointedstick » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:58 pm

Maybe we shouldn't go down this road again.
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by Ad Orientem » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:00 pm

OK. I will withdraw my last post in the interest of global peace.
:)
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by Benko » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:04 pm

My post had more emotion that I intended, but it is a vaid question.
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by moda0306 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:04 pm

Benko wrote:
Ad Orientem wrote: I completely agree. Which is why I support (with deep reservations) a single payer system like almost every other country in the civilized world has. Obamacare is a mess. It was an attempt to get everyone insured while bowing to the free market god.
You didn't answer my first point:

If all you/democrats cared about was poor people having access to health care, then the answer is simple, give everyone under a certain income health care to whatever level you desire, and leave everyone else's heath care alone. "

Because your goal is CONTROL, government control over everything and everyone.  To what extent it does or does not help poor people (or harms everyone) is irrevelant.  If I am wrong, explain why what I suggest is not to your liking?

"why don't we just cut the bull and institute single-payer, and if it doesn't work after 8 year people will hate it and we'll go back to what we have now"

it is not possible to go back once it is instituted, and you know that.
Universal healthcare isn't even all that much about giving healthcare to the financially destitute.  That's what Medicaid is for.  It's about guaranteeing insurability so people don't become financially destitute due to a health event.

This isn't just a charitable thing... it's infrastructural.  The government doesn't build roads and sewer systems for just the poor.  It builds it for everyone.  I don't think it's absolutely ludacris that along with military and police protection, transportation and legal infrastructure, that we have an infrastructural system of health coverage.

However, to try to weave that infrastructure with employment is a mess.  It achieves group ratings, but it's such an annoying mess for employers to manage.
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."

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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by moda0306 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:09 pm

Yep, I just spelled ludicrous "ludacris."  Like the rapper.

MT, ban me, would you?  I am not allowed to have my opinion count anymore.
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."

- Thomas Paine
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by craigr » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:35 pm

I'm calling in a drone strike on this thread…I think this is a new record for locked thread. Only three pages! I know we can get it down to one page eventually.
Last edited by craigr on Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by craigr » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:39 pm

Unlocked now. Please play nicely.
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by moda0306 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:40 pm

Thanks Craig.

Let the TROLLING BEGIN!!! :)

JK.
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."

- Thomas Paine
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