Question for the MT/MR advocates...what's your position on "tapering"?

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Kshartle
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Re: Question for the MT/MR advocates...what's your position on "tapering"?

Post by Kshartle » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:28 pm

TennPaGa wrote:
Kshartle wrote:
Pointedstick wrote: Yes, of course. We all get it. That's just how the system works. Credit expansion and contraction has a variety of effects on the economy. It's good for some, but bad for others.  That's just how the system is set up.

We recognize this. And given that we recognize it, we're additionally interested in peeling back the layers and understanding the mechanisms behind the visible effects.
You might get it but others do not.
I don't know of anyone here who would disagree with what PS wrote.
Well since he's saying he agrees with my statement I will take yours to mean you believe no one here would disagree with my statement. I will take any progress.
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Re: Question for the MT/MR advocates...what's your position on "tapering"?

Post by doodle » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:32 pm

Pointedstick wrote: We all take it as a given that the government is stupid, immoral, hurts people, etc. We get it. We build it into our mental models of the way the world works.
I don't
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. - Blaise Pascal
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Re: Question for the MT/MR advocates...what's your position on "tapering"?

Post by Pointedstick » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:34 pm

Kshartle, What we're really arguing over is what's a big deal, and how much of a big deal these possible things are. You seem to think government credit expansion is a big deal. Personally I don't feel like it's any bigger of a deal than private credit expansion that banks routinely initiate, which was present even in the gold standard days.

I have worked really hard to try to reduce my feelings of moral outrage when I examine government and am deliberately trying to look at it like a scientist might look at a specimen in a petri dish, rather than how a rebel might view an overwhelmingly powerful oppressor. I remember those days, and they weren't any fun at all. I don't disagree with much of what you say, but I find that it doesn't really gain me anything to constantly look at the government through the lens of "victimizer/counterfeiter/robber/kidnapper". It's helpful to know that stuff, but being obsessed with it limited my viewpoint.
Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant.
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Kshartle
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Re: Question for the MT/MR advocates...what's your position on "tapering"?

Post by Kshartle » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:36 pm

doodle wrote:
Pointedstick wrote: We all take it as a given that the government is stupid, immoral, hurts people, etc. We get it. We build it into our mental models of the way the world works.
I don't
Doodle, I appreciate that you do not let anyone speak for you. Even if I vehemently disagree with you, at least something was said to disagree with.
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Re: Question for the MT/MR advocates...what's your position on "tapering"?

Post by technovelist » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:36 pm

doodle wrote:
Pointedstick wrote: We all take it as a given that the government is stupid, immoral, hurts people, etc. We get it. We build it into our mental models of the way the world works.
I don't
Thank you. You have completely validated my opinion of you.
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Re: Question for the MT/MR advocates...what's your position on "tapering"?

Post by moda0306 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:55 pm

technovelist wrote:
doodle wrote:
Pointedstick wrote: We all take it as a given that the government is stupid, immoral, hurts people, etc. We get it. We build it into our mental models of the way the world works.
I don't
Thank you. You have completely validated my opinion of you.
No point in getting personal.  Stating that government can do good, productive things, while it does unfortunately have to engage in some coercive acts to do so, is no different than saying that an individual can do some very good, productive things, while he might have to unfortunately illegitimately claim lordship over land and decimate it from its natural sate, dislocating any native animal or human populations, shooting trespassers, and potentially spewing out externalities.

We're all on this island together.  It might get a little bit fuzzy what constitutes illegitimate force, and if we can't avoid it, how we harness force to prevent the worst of it.

That's just his opinion.  He's clear and honest about it.  Which is more than we can say for most Americans who like to hide their true positions and motivations under ambiguous shrouds like "patriotism," or "equality," or whatever thing they want to use to excuse using force without addressing the subject of force on its own terms.

We've chosen to meet the people who want to discuss force on their turf.  Just discussing organized forms of force, and never trying to justify it unless we see it as unavoidably prevalent in the first place.
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Re: Question for the MT/MR advocates...what's your position on "tapering"?

Post by tennpaga » Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:32 am

doodle wrote:
Pointedstick wrote: We all take it as a given that the government is stupid, immoral, hurts people, etc. We get it. We build it into our mental models of the way the world works.
I don't
I think government is "stupid, immoral, hurts people, etc." in the sense that humans in general are capable of such behavior, so I don't think people in government are exempt.  But neither are people in the private sector.  I think that constant vigilance is required over people with power, whether in the public or private sector.
* Gresham's Law: Bad behavior drives out good.
* Gresham's corollary: Avoid participating in systems where good behavior cannot win.

https://fs.blog/2009/12/mental-model-greshams-law/
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