Syria

Other discussions not related to the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

Post Reply
TennPaGa
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3558
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 1:44 pm

Syria

Post by TennPaGa » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:41 am

Though I hope not, it appears the U.S. is going to attack Syria.  Good questions here from Andrew Bacevich.  I will be surprised if answers are provided.

Questions for President Obama
First, why does this particular heinous act rise to the level of justifying a military response? More specifically, why did a similarly heinous act by the Egyptian army elicit from Washington only the mildest response? Just weeks ago, Egyptian security forces slaughtered hundreds of Egyptians whose “crime”? was to protest a military coup that overthrew a legitimately elected president. Why the double standard?

Second, once U.S. military action against Syria begins, when will it end? What is the political objective? Wrapping the Assad regime on the knuckles is unlikely to persuade it to change its ways. That regime is engaged in a fight for survival. So what exactly does the United States intend to achieve and how much is President Obama willing to spend in lives and treasure to get there? War is a risky business. Is the president willing to commit U.S. forces to what could well become another protracted and costly struggle?

Third, what is the legal basis for military action? Neither Russia nor China is likely to agree to an attack on Syria, so authorization by the U.N. Security Council won’t be forthcoming. Will Obama ask Congress for the authority to act? Or will he, as so many of his recent predecessors have done, employ some dodge to circumvent the Constitution? With what justification?
User avatar
craigr
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 3184
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: Syria

Post by craigr » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:46 am

I still say that the Nobel Peace Prize is just some kind of Norwegian humor the rest of the planet doesn't get.
My new company: www.sandflysecurity.com

IMPORTANT NOTE: My old website crawlingroad{dot}com is no longer available or run by me.

All links to the old domain are invalid and you should use www.archive.is or www.archive.org to look up the information referenced at the old domain.
User avatar
technovelist
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5047
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: Syria

Post by technovelist » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:47 am

Obama doesn't need any reason to do anything. He does whatever he wants.
Why bother running for President if you would have to obey the law if you got elected?
Reub
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3700
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:44 pm

Re: Syria

Post by Reub » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:02 pm

Obama has a preference for helping Islamic radicals while at the same time taking out a few Al Qaeda leaders every now and then. It is a strange contradiction. He helped Islamists overthrow our friend Mubarak, take over Libya and Tunisia, and did nothing when Iran's people were looking for a better way. This would continue that policy.
Mdraf
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 470
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:54 pm

Re: Syria

Post by Mdraf » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:05 pm

Image
TennPaGa
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3558
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 1:44 pm

Re: Syria

Post by TennPaGa » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:17 pm

Reub wrote: Obama has a preference for helping Islamic radicals while at the same time taking out a few Al Qaeda leaders every now and then. It is a strange contradiction.
Karl Rove, Bill Kristol, Elliot Abrams, et. al. say hello:

From The Weekly Standard: Experts to Obama: Here Is What to Do in Syria
A big group of foreign policy experts, from across the ideological spectrum, is calling on President Obama to impose "meaningful consequences on the Assad regime" for their use of chemical weapons.

"At a minimum, the United States, along with willing allies and partners, should use standoff weapons and airpower to target the Syrian dictatorship’s military units that were involved in the recent large-scale use of chemical weapons.  It should also provide vetted moderate elements of Syria’s armed opposition with the military support required to identify and strike regime units armed with chemical weapons," the experts write.

"Moreover, the United States and other willing nations should consider direct military strikes against the pillars of the Assad regime.  The objectives should be not only to ensure that Assad’s chemical weapons no longer threaten America, our allies in the region or the Syrian people, but also to deter or destroy the Assad regime’s airpower and other conventional military means of committing atrocities against civilian non-combatants.  At the same time, the United States should accelerate efforts to vet, train, and arm moderate elements of Syria’s armed opposition, with the goal of empowering them to prevail against both the Assad regime and the growing presence of Al Qaeda-affiliated and other extremist rebel factions in the country."

...

The signatories on the letter addressed to President Obama inlcude Senator Joe Lieberman, Bernard-Henri Levy, Karl Rove, Bill Kristol, Elliott Abrams, Leon Wieseltier, and many others. Right now, 66 experts have signed the letter.
Last edited by TennPaGa on Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Pointedstick
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9729
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Syria

Post by Pointedstick » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:28 pm

Boy, I sure hope the rebels don't turn out to be radicals who actually hate us. Nah, couldn't happen. Just because it happened in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Egypt, doesn't mean it'll happen in Syria too. Nope. This time is different. Lucky number 7!
Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
TennPaGa
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3558
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 1:44 pm

Re: Syria

Post by TennPaGa » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:51 pm

craigr wrote: I still say that the Nobel Peace Prize is just some kind of Norwegian humor the rest of the planet doesn't get.
At the time, I figured it was aspirationally awarded to Obama.

But maybe you are right. :(
Reub
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3700
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:44 pm

Re: Syria

Post by Reub » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:20 pm

TennPaGa wrote:
Reub wrote: Obama has a preference for helping Islamic radicals while at the same time taking out a few Al Qaeda leaders every now and then. It is a strange contradiction.
Karl Rove, Bill Kristol, Elliot Abrams, et. al. say hello:

From The Weekly Standard: Experts to Obama: Here Is What to Do in Syria
A big group of foreign policy experts, from across the ideological spectrum, is calling on President Obama to impose "meaningful consequences on the Assad regime" for their use of chemical weapons.

"At a minimum, the United States, along with willing allies and partners, should use standoff weapons and airpower to target the Syrian dictatorship’s military units that were involved in the recent large-scale use of chemical weapons.  It should also provide vetted moderate elements of Syria’s armed opposition with the military support required to identify and strike regime units armed with chemical weapons," the experts write.

"Moreover, the United States and other willing nations should consider direct military strikes against the pillars of the Assad regime.  The objectives should be not only to ensure that Assad’s chemical weapons no longer threaten America, our allies in the region or the Syrian people, but also to deter or destroy the Assad regime’s airpower and other conventional military means of committing atrocities against civilian non-combatants.  At the same time, the United States should accelerate efforts to vet, train, and arm moderate elements of Syria’s armed opposition, with the goal of empowering them to prevail against both the Assad regime and the growing presence of Al Qaeda-affiliated and other extremist rebel factions in the country."

...

The signatories on the letter addressed to President Obama inlcude Senator Joe Lieberman, Bernard-Henri Levy, Karl Rove, Bill Kristol, Elliott Abrams, Leon Wieseltier, and many others. Right now, 66 experts have signed the letter.
Who cares what these people are saying? They are not in power. Neither is Bush. The people in power have supported radical Islamists all over the Middle East ever since they took over. This includes Libya, Tunisia, and Egypt. So why wouldn't they add Syria to their list? And yet, in Iran, where pro-Westerners wanted freedom and we could have made a real strategic impact, we ignored them.
Last edited by Reub on Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TennPaGa
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3558
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 1:44 pm

Re: Syria

Post by TennPaGa » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:47 pm

Reub wrote: Who cares what these people are saying? They are not in power. Neither is Bush. The people in power have supported radical Islamists all over the Middle East ever since they took over. This includes Libya, Tunisia, and Egypt. So why wouldn't they add Syria to their list? And yet, in Iran, where pro-Westerners wanted freedom and we could have made a real strategic impact, we ignored them.
I agree that in the end, it only matters what the Obama administration does, and the opinions of others don't really matter.

I also agree with you (I think) that getting involved in Syria would be a bad idea, though our agreement is probably based on entirely different reasons.

However, I do find it interesting that so many others, who generally are not predisposed to agree with Obama, support intervening in Syria.  So why do you think Barak Obama, William Kristol, Karl Rove, Elliot Abrams, and Joe Lieberman all support radical Islamists in Syria?
User avatar
MediumTex
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 9615
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:47 pm
Contact:

Re: Syria

Post by MediumTex » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:31 pm

Mr. President, why bother building all of this great military hardware if you're not going to use it?  This is probably the best chance you are going to have while you are in office to blow up a bunch of stuff.  Don't let it pass.  Don't let that Nobel Peace Prize cloud your judgment.

Image
Only strength can cooperate. Weakness can only beg.
-Dwight Eisenhower
User avatar
Benko
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2021
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:40 am

Re: Syria

Post by Benko » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:32 pm

TennPaGa wrote: why do you think Barak Obama, William Kristol, Karl Rove, Elliot Abrams, and Joe Lieberman all support radical Islamists in Syria?
How about Obama is an anticolonialist who selects choices which appropriately (according to anticolonialists)  hurts the US and Rove is just a neocon?
It was good being the party of Robin Hood. Until they morphed into the Sheriff of Nottingham
Post Reply