The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

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Benko
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Benko » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:03 pm

I don't know if rinsing twice is necessary, but using dilute stuff with a waterpik is what I have been doing for years with listerene and clearly if you aim the waterpik nozzle at the gumline (WITH THE FLOW RATE LOWISH) you are going to get better penetration then just swishing with the stuff.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by MachineGhost » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:09 pm

sophie wrote: Thanks for the info about Closys.  I found a toothpaste but no rinse - you're talking about the rinse, correct?
Correct.  The PetzLife looks like it has one of Listerine's ingredients.

Benko: Pay no attention to marketing fiction.  I wonder what all that pro-oxidizing would do to your enamel.  While I support that entrepreneurs should be able to offer dental whitening services without a protectionist license, it clearly damages teeth.

I fear that you guys may not be realizing how interdependent the regime products are on each other.  They're not to be used in isolation nor the use of substitution products or in isolation.  Yes, I know human nature loves novelty and loves to tinker and ruin a good thing, but realize you are going up against 30-years of clinical experience as well as literature evidence on what really works. 

Flossing is not necessary with the regime, but I don't expect anyone to take it at face value.  Prove it to yourself, first.  I don't know about waterpicking but if CloSys does the job as it seems to do, that may be redundant as well.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Reub » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:50 pm

I have just received my Closys rinse purchased through Amazon. I like the way it makes my mouth feel and am gargling with it too. Could it be used as a gargle to help prevent sore/strep throats as well?
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:10 am

Deep Thoughts :  On tooth and gum maintenance.

I have long felt that the standard approach to teeth maintenance is inherently flawed.  I base that on the following premises:

1) Tooth and gum disease is clearly a chemical or biological issue - yet virtually all  practitioners rely on coarse mechanical means for maintenance.  Toothbrush, floss, “cleanings”? by the dental hygienist.  This is clearly whacking at the leaves while ignoring the root.

2) Taken as a whole, wild animals don’t have tooth and gum disease.  Other than being domesticated, why should humans be different?

Over a few years of experimentation, I’ve finally gotten to the point where I was able to discard my dentist.  For mechanical maintenance, I brush twice a day to remove wine and coffee stains (purely out of vanity).

By pure accident, while exploring other aspects of human biology, my previous periodontal and tooth decay issues have disappeared. Here’s what works for me:

1) I don’t eat carbohydrates - so no dental caries.  The bugs that produce caries starve to death in my mouth.

2) I eat a lot of raw free range egg yolks.  They are very high in vitamin K2.  Vitamin K2 carboxylates (i.e. activates) the protein osteocalcin which forces free calcium into the bones and teeth - and prevents it from depositing into the soft tissues such as the arteries and gums - thus no teeth tartar to scrape off.

3) I eat an ounces of hydrolyzed collagen every day.  Scurvy (you know the disease that most people believe is a lack of vitamin C?) is really a disease of deficient collagen production.  The teeth get loose and bleed, the joints ache, the organs fail.  Pretty much the same thing that happens to us as we get older.  As we get older, we don’t manufacture collagen as easily.  We get more and more scurvy like.  Taking collagen directly in our diet mitigates the production issue - and reverses many of the symptoms - including periodontal disease.

So… I didn’t set out to address tooth and gum issues in my own life, but some of the other things that I experimented with inadvertently eliminated them entirely.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Benko » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:34 am

MachineGhost wrote: I fear that you guys may not be realizing how interdependent the regime products are on each other.  They're not to be used in isolation nor the use of substitution products or in isolation.  Yes, I know human nature loves novelty and loves to tinker and ruin a good thing, but realize you are going up against 30-years of clinical experience as well as literature evidence on what really works. 
MG,

This thread had been up for so long I had forgotten what the regimen was.

"you are going up against 30-years of clinical experience"

So the regimen has worked well for pts for 30 years.  The regimen has multiple components.  How does anyone know that all the components are needed?  If the closys kills all the bacteria why the listerene?

"as well as literature evidence on what really works.  "
Unless they did studies on the regimen with and without the listerene and with and without the act, there is no way of knowing if those are necessary.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by MachineGhost » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:10 am

Reub wrote: I have just received my Closys rinse purchased through Amazon. I like the way it makes my mouth feel and am gargling with it too. Could it be used as a gargle to help prevent sore/strep throats as well?
There are $1 off coupons off CloSys every month at their website (you can print two), good for use at drugstores.  Especially when said drugstore puts it on sale.

My elderly mother cannot tolerate Listerine (even that useless Zero alcohol version) or the ACT, so she may be forced to rely on CloSys exclusively.  Not ideal.  I'll look into her trying the PetzLife as a Listerine replacement.

Benko: The CloSys is primarily used to raise the pH of your mouth to protect it against the toothpaste and brushing.  That it being a wetting agent of chlorine dioxide to heal gum pockets is a bonus.  The Listerine is the real germ killer and is also used to disinfect your brush.  Plus the acidity of the Listerine helps the relatively higher pH ACT stick to the teeth better.

Okay then, we'll just say that while the individual products have decades of efficacy as demonstrated in the literature and by the ADA, the 30-years of clinical experience is in putting them together as a regime.

Tongue scraping, Emma-Dent (true ultrasonic brush), flossing, waterpicking, its all a bonus to the core regime.  I don't do the xylitol step throughout the day as I'm sensitive to the amounts necessary to have efficacy.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Benko » Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:03 am

Thanks MG, point taken.

I will stick to the oral B for brushing as it has an accessary nice pointy brush for use between teeth which is almost as good as flossing.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by sophie » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:08 pm

Mark Leavy wrote: 2) Taken as a whole, wild animals don’t have tooth and gum disease.  Other than being domesticated, why should humans be different?
Because we now live longer thanks to agriculture, sanitary engineering, antibiotics etc.  As the old saw goes, it's no fun getting old but the alternative isn't so great either.

I thought the grapefruit seed extract in Petzlife is the active ingredient that sets it apart from Listerine.  Listerine does indeed kill bacteria & viruses (it's the best remedy I've ever found for cankersores) and Closys apparently does same, but these products do nothing for tartar once it's formed.  The petzlife stuff really does dissolve tartar.  I don't know of any product made for humans that does this successfully, including all those "tartar control" toothpastes.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Benko » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:16 am

sophie wrote:   The petzlife stuff really does dissolve tartar.  I don't know of any product made for humans that does this successfully, including all those "tartar control" toothpastes.
I've had good luck with tartar control in colgate in preventing tartar formation when used regularly.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by pugchief » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:56 am

sophie wrote:
Mark Leavy wrote: 2) Taken as a whole, wild animals don’t have tooth and gum disease.  Other than being domesticated, why should humans be different?
Because we now live longer thanks to agriculture, sanitary engineering, antibiotics etc.  As the old saw goes, it's no fun getting old but the alternative isn't so great either.
It is also because the wild animals don't eat the crap modern humans do.
sophie wrote:
I thought the grapefruit seed extract in Petzlife is the active ingredient that sets it apart from Listerine.  Listerine does indeed kill bacteria & viruses (it's the best remedy I've ever found for cankersores) and Closys apparently does same, but these products do nothing for tartar once it's formed.  The petzlife stuff really does dissolve tartar.  I don't know of any product made for humans that does this successfully, including all those "tartar control" toothpastes.
Yep, that pet spray is mostly Listerine. Tartar is essentially old plaque that has not been removed by mechanical means [brushing, flossing] that hardens from exposure to calcium salt precipitates in the saliva.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by dualstow » Tue May 20, 2014 5:46 pm

dualstow wrote: Let me know if the Closys interferes with your sense of taste at all. I rinse with Biotene.
<snip>
I say, I say, does Closys rinse or any part of this regime mess with your sense of taste?
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by MachineGhost » Tue May 20, 2014 9:59 pm

Came across this...  http://mmsautism.org/miraculous-video-testimonials

I shall not comment.
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