The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by mathjak107 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:49 am

don't misunderstand -- yes, you can buy it with a prescription and typically it is a lot cheaper for the procedure if you buy it and provide it to the dentist if your insurer pays for it . so our dentist gave us the option as she would rather we got it so we could save money on the procedure . it is classified as a tier 3 drug with aetna and is a 1k co-pay . our supplement would pick it up except being pretty healthy she has a high deductible f-plan with a 2k out of pocket .

it really was not worth us buying it since we never come close to the 2k deductible . .

the dentist is providing it way cheaper and with application gets 65 bucks per tooth in nyc which is pretty reasonable here as some dentists get over 100 bucks per tooth .
there are only a few teeth needing it . . it is not being used instead of root canals . this is for the perio issues she has too .

all the other work is so extensive the dentist felt if we could save a few bucks by providing the arestin it would help since other drug plans cover it without a ridiculous co-pay .

but for the drugs we need aetna is great and co-pays are usually like 2 bucks . they just classify this one as way out of bounds evidently .

.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by blackomen » Tue May 08, 2018 11:49 pm

Anyone try toothpaste with Novamin which I hear works even better than the Crest Cavity Protection paste recommended here? I hear it's banned in the US but not illegal per se and you can buy it off of Amazon, though at inflated prices. And one of the reasons it's banned is because it worked so well at remineralizing teeth that dentists feared they'd be out of a job so they lobbied the ADA.. at least that's what I've been told.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Wed May 09, 2018 9:41 am

Pug may question this, but as a 6 month experiment I have been brushing exclusively with Xylitol.

I am about 3 months in. There is no doubt that I have less plaque buildup and I have had zero gum issues. In the past, certainly every few weeks I'd have some level of gum irritation here or there for whatever reason, none since starting Xylitol.

You can search for how it works. And I'll give an update after my next checkup.

I'd also like to ask Pug, toothpaste is all marketing for the most part, right? If I look at "active" ingredients, it is mainly either Sodium Fluoride or Stannous Fluoride, and if I have one really expensive "Helps prevent bleeding gums" toothpaste with one vs. a cheaper alternative with the same active ingredient, they are basically the same?
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by blackomen » Thu May 10, 2018 7:49 am

MangoMan wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 2:20 pm
I had not previously heard of Novamin. Googling it, I found an NIH paper that states that the substance has promise as an anti cavity agent, perhaps superior to fluoride.

I assure you that the ADA and or other dental groups are not trying to prevent its use unless they feel it is unsafe for some reason. We as dentists are always trying to put ourselves out of business in the interest of public health, in spite of what the public believes.

Depending on what issue you are trying to solve with toothpaste, it's unlikely to be a panacea. Many of the formulations, particularly regarding whitening are mostly marketing. Some incarnations have shown promise in other areas. For instance, Pronamel has been shown to reminerailze enamel, but if you sip Coke all day and brush with it only once a week, you will likely still get cavities. Etc. Etc. Xylitol has also shown to be effective.

The best advice I can give you call is brsh, floss, Listerine and see your dentist twice a year. Doing ignore small problems as they will become large ones with time.
If it's only being used in some third world countries, then I'd be far more suspicious. But Novamine is in many consumer toothpastes in Canada and the UK. However, my knowledge of dentistry is limited so I think it's still best to compare its effectiveness with, say, good old Crest and see which one is more effective at fighting the minor cavities I have.. I've already noticed improvements in my sensitivity after using the Crest cavity toothpaste for like 2 months and I've ordered a sample of Novamine toothpaste from overseas due to arrive a in few weeks.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by WiseOne » Fri May 11, 2018 7:26 am

I kind of ignored the fluoride controversy for a while, but recently switched to a non-fluoride toothpaste. I figure that with the water fluoridated it doesn't make sense to double up given that NYC's water hovers around the EPA safe limit as it is. And also figured easier than messing around with reverse osmosis systems.

The one I'm using is Dr. Bronner's which uses coconut oil & flour. At my last checkup, the hygienist commented that my teeth were cleaner and with less plaque than usual. And, no cavities. Sample size of one visit but that's intriguing. I'm sticking with the plan.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by thisisallen » Fri May 18, 2018 8:35 am

Someone just recommended trying an ionic toothbrush. This article explains about it. Not many companies are selling it , and all from Japan. Anyone ever have success with this?

http://www.holistic-healing-information ... ushes.html
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Mountaineer » Fri May 18, 2018 8:41 am

thisisallen wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 8:35 am
Someone just recommended trying an ionic toothbrush. This article explains about it. Not many companies are selling it , and all from Japan. Anyone ever have success with this?

http://www.holistic-healing-information ... ushes.html
So how does the tooth surface retain its positive charge long enough to be effective? I don't think the mouth (and body) are perfect insulators.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Sat May 19, 2018 6:48 pm

It's really not that hard. Just stop eating carbohydrates.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK8259/

It balances the PH in your mouth (tartar, decay) and starves S mutans. (caries)
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by thisisallen » Sun May 20, 2018 9:40 am

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 6:48 pm
It's really not that hard. Just stop eating carbohydrates.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK8259/

It balances the PH in your mouth (tartar, decay) and starves S mutans. (caries)
Mark, isn’t that like “robbing Peter to pay Paul” because carbs have good benefits also, especially if you’re a vegetarian.
Using Xylitol mints or gum will create more saliva in your mouth to help keep the bacteria from damaging the teeth.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:10 pm

Of the four macro nutrients, Fat (9c/g) Alcohol (7c/g) Carbohydrates (4 c/g) Protein (4 c/g)

Only fat and protein are essential. Alcohol and carbohydrates are decent fuel - tasty and will keep you alive and happy - just slightly poisonous and disastrous to your liver, skin, teeth and arteries. 100% optional. The teeth and gums are the canary in the coal mine. If you are having trouble with caries or periodontitis, then you have crossed the carbohydrate line. There is no other answer - back off.

I do like carbs and alcohol, so I consume my share now and then. But I don't pretend that either are good for me in any way.

Some bourbon now and then. Some sticky rice now and then. Damn fine. But not essential.

Eggs and hamburger and free weights and hill climbing cover everything you need to live a completely healthy (and dentist free) life. A margarita and a taco will add some fun to that healthy life. But if you have too many you'll be handing some of your portfolio over to MangoMan - who is a decent guy and deserves all of the money you give him.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:30 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:37 am
...
Just curious where you get your fiber from if you aren't eating any carbs other than occasional sticky rice? You'd have to eat a boatload of the right veggies to get the recommended quantity. Btw, I thought your preferred alcohol was red wine with your steak?
Wine or bourbon or rum - depending on where in the world I am. It's hard to get decent wine in the tropics.

The popular belief that dietary fiber is somehow necessary for gut health is just another fallacy. I've had minimal to none over the last 10 years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:40 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:30 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:37 am
...
Just curious where you get your fiber from if you aren't eating any carbs other than occasional sticky rice? You'd have to eat a boatload of the right veggies to get the recommended quantity. Btw, I thought your preferred alcohol was red wine with your steak?
Wine or bourbon or rum - depending on where in the world I am. It's hard to get decent wine in the tropics.

The popular belief that dietary fiber is somehow necessary for gut health is just another fallacy. I've had minimal to none over the last 10 years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/
Mark,

Agree 100% on the fiber. I have been the same. I used to seek it out >10 years ago because of the assumption it was good for you and helped you poop better (my main intended use, sorry TMI). A couple magnesium supplements work a shitload (pun intended) better, and get more magnesium in your system, which many are lacking.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by thisisallen » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:54 pm

As we know, the Japanese eat Allota rice. Yet they have some of the longest lifelongevity in the world. How do the no fiber gurus understand that phenomenon?
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Maddy » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:22 pm

On the subject of magnesium. . . A friend recently mentioned that she had been soaking her feet in epsom salts and finding it an effective remedy for muscle cramps in her feet. My ears perked up because I've recently been plagued with intractable foot and leg cramps at night which have been noticeably relieved by taking a cal-mag supplement (and conversely made worse when I stop the supplement). A couple of days ago, my wrist gave out in a painful way. I have no idea what happened because I was still in bed and did nothing more ambitious than pull the bedsheets up around my chin. As the day went on, the pain became worse, and by early afternoon my wrist was useless and my entire forearm was aching badly. I got to thinking: What possibly could have caused this--an entrapped nerve? Or possibly a spasm of a small muscle somewhere inside my wrist? The more I thought about it, the more I liked the muscle spasm thesis--so much that I went and bought a box of epsom salts, dissolved it in a plastic pitcher of water, and stuck my forearm in the solution for about 30 minutes. An hour or two later, the pain was entirely gone. Not scientific, I know, but one hell of a coincidence.

BTW, my friend also mentioned that soaking her feet in epsom salts (magnesium) has made her sleep much better.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:23 pm

thisisallen wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:54 pm
As we know, the Japanese eat Allota rice. Yet they have some of the longest lifelongevity in the world. How do the no fiber gurus understand that phenomenon?
Do you really think steamed white rice has a lot of fiber? Carbs, yes. Fiber, no.

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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:31 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:51 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:40 pm
Mark Leavy wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:30 pm


Wine or bourbon or rum - depending on where in the world I am. It's hard to get decent wine in the tropics.

The popular belief that dietary fiber is somehow necessary for gut health is just another fallacy. I've had minimal to none over the last 10 years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/
Mark,

Agree 100% on the fiber. I have been the same. I used to seek it out >10 years ago because of the assumption it was good for you and helped you poop better (my main intended use, sorry TMI). A couple magnesium supplements work a shitload (pun intended) better, and get more magnesium in your system, which many are lacking.
Corto, How much magnesium do you take, and on what dosing schedule?
Generally three 200mg Mag Citrate pills, one at each meal (but I don't eat breakfast, so in the morning...). Been doing it for 9 years. I cannot attest to other related benefits, such as relaxation, reducing muscle cramps, etc. But for the original main searching for me, (again TMI...), with a family history of constipation, and having tried every form of fiber on the planet, literally, Metamucil, Citrucel, Inulin, every form of high fiber cereal, Fiber One bars, prunes, boatloads of water, etc., magnesium is a miracle worker. Not an issue in 9 years.

Ever since then I have taken every diet and health related claim of doctors and so-called experts with a big grain of salt.

The other big one is cholesterol and statins, I am sure we have a topic somewhere on that....
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:33 pm

thisisallen wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:54 pm
As we know, the Japanese eat Allota rice. Yet they have some of the longest lifelongevity in the world. How do the no fiber gurus understand that phenomenon?
Even more fun than nutrition, is logic.

Saying that something is unnecessary/not essential provides no information (good or bad) about what other affects it might have.

It's not just a layman's problem. I find logic sorely missing in a lot of white papers.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:19 pm

Some people do better eating few carbs and more fat, some people do better eating carbs and fewer fats. Everyone just needs to figure out which kind of people they are.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by thisisallen » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:23 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:04 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:23 pm
thisisallen wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:54 pm
As we know, the Japanese eat Allota rice. Yet they have some of the longest lifelongevity in the world. How do the no fiber gurus understand that phenomenon?
Do you really think steamed white rice has a lot of fiber? Carbs, yes. Fiber, no.
Ya, but carbs are supposed to be poison, according to the latest line of thought. So let's change Allen's question to "How do the no CARBS gurus understand that phenomenon?"
Thank you. :)
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by thisisallen » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:27 pm

Maddy wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:22 pm
On the subject of magnesium. . . A friend recently mentioned that she had been soaking her feet in epsom salts and finding it an effective remedy for muscle cramps in her feet. My ears perked up because I've recently been plagued with intractable foot and leg cramps at night which have been noticeably relieved by taking a cal-mag supplement (and conversely made worse when I stop the supplement). A couple of days ago, my wrist gave out in a painful way. I have no idea what happened because I was still in bed and did nothing more ambitious than pull the bedsheets up around my chin. As the day went on, the pain became worse, and by early afternoon my wrist was useless and my entire forearm was aching badly. I got to thinking: What possibly could have caused this--an entrapped nerve? Or possibly a spasm of a small muscle somewhere inside my wrist? The more I thought about it, the more I liked the muscle spasm thesis--so much that I went and bought a box of epsom salts, dissolved it in a plastic pitcher of water, and stuck my forearm in the solution for about 30 minutes. An hour or two later, the pain was entirely gone. Not scientific, I know, but one hell of a coincidence.

BTW, my friend also mentioned that soaking her feet in epsom salts (magnesium) has made her sleep much better.
I apply magnesium oil to my calves - usually at night cuz I used to get cramps in the AM. It is very effective and easy to use (rub in)
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:35 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:19 pm
Some people do better eating few carbs and more fat, some people do better eating carbs and fewer fats. Everyone just needs to figure out which kind of people they are.
Indeed. My wife thrives on and prefers (taste) a diet very heavy in pasta, sweets, bread and potatoes. I thrive on and prefer (taste) a diet very heavy in meat, chicken, fish, eggs, bacon, sausage, whole milk and green veggies. Our doctor tells both of us to keep on doing whatever it is we are doing. Bloodwork and physical metrics are all okay for people our age ;) .
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:43 pm

thisisallen wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:27 pm
Maddy wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:22 pm
On the subject of magnesium. . . A friend recently mentioned that she had been soaking her feet in epsom salts and finding it an effective remedy for muscle cramps in her feet. My ears perked up because I've recently been plagued with intractable foot and leg cramps at night which have been noticeably relieved by taking a cal-mag supplement (and conversely made worse when I stop the supplement). A couple of days ago, my wrist gave out in a painful way. I have no idea what happened because I was still in bed and did nothing more ambitious than pull the bedsheets up around my chin. As the day went on, the pain became worse, and by early afternoon my wrist was useless and my entire forearm was aching badly. I got to thinking: What possibly could have caused this--an entrapped nerve? Or possibly a spasm of a small muscle somewhere inside my wrist? The more I thought about it, the more I liked the muscle spasm thesis--so much that I went and bought a box of epsom salts, dissolved it in a plastic pitcher of water, and stuck my forearm in the solution for about 30 minutes. An hour or two later, the pain was entirely gone. Not scientific, I know, but one hell of a coincidence.

BTW, my friend also mentioned that soaking her feet in epsom salts (magnesium) has made her sleep much better.
I apply magnesium oil to my calves - usually at night cuz I used to get cramps in the AM. It is very effective and easy to use (rub in)
Does anyone know factually whether either epsom salts or magnesium oil penetrate skin to any significant measure? I remember from my long ago chemistry days that the solvent DMSO (dimethylsulfoxide) was sometimes used to help drugs penetrate skin because skin is usually relatively impervious to most chemicals. I have no idea what current reliable research indicates; I looked on the internet but got a feeling of "selling snake oil" on several of the sites.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:41 pm

thisisallen wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:23 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:04 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:23 pm


Do you really think steamed white rice has a lot of fiber? Carbs, yes. Fiber, no.
Ya, but carbs are supposed to be poison, according to the latest line of thought. So let's change Allen's question to "How do the no CARBS gurus understand that phenomenon?"
Thank you. :)
No doubt there is variability. My wife is Chinese and at 51 can still eat anything and not gain weight, and good blood work. She gets it from her dad. Her mom is also Chinese and polar opposite. Overweight and diabetic.

But it is pretty clear at least some types of carbs, probably the higher processed ones are causing great issues in many cultures as they become westernized (like Aborigines) who used to be fit but are now obese and in poor health.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Tortoise » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:15 pm

Two questions for the dentists and dental enthusiasts here:
  • Despite brushing just once a day and almost never flossing, I had no cavities whatsoever for the first 38 years of my life. Then, within the past year I've gotten six cavities filled (four of them in between my upper teeth, in the flossing area). I floss every day now that I've been scared straight. I did recently change dentists last year when I moved. Is my current dentist probably just a lot more zealous than my previous ones, or is there an age-related component to cavity formation?
  • Is there a certain type of mouthwash that's clinically proven to be most effective? (For example, Listerine has alcohol but no fluoride, some other mouthwashes have no alcohol but do have fluoride, etc.)
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Tortoise » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:28 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:15 pm
Two questions for the dentists and dental enthusiasts here:
  • Despite brushing just once a day and almost never flossing, I had no cavities whatsoever for the first 38 years of my life. Then, within the past year I've gotten six cavities filled (four of them in between my upper teeth, in the flossing area). I floss every day now that I've been scared straight. I did recently change dentists last year when I moved. Is my current dentist probably just a lot more zealous than my previous ones, or is there an age-related component to cavity formation?
    [MangoMan] Quite possibly the new guy is too aggressive. If you went 38 years with no cavities, and all of a sudden have 6, I would have suggested a second opinion prior to the drilling. Was there any change in your diet or medications?
    [Tortoise] No change in my diet, and I don't take any medications. Okay, then it sounds like the new dentist (a young guy who just started his own practice last year) is probably just more zealous than my previous ones. But I do like him; he seems thorough and competent. Maybe going forward I'll just ask for a second opinion if he suggests any more fillings.
  • Is there a certain type of mouthwash that's clinically proven to be most effective? (For example, Listerine has alcohol but no fluoride, some other mouthwashes have no alcohol but do have fluoride, etc.)
    [MangoMan] Listerine is my recommended OTC mouthwash. If the alcohol is an issue, they have a newer version that is alcohol-free that they claim is just as effective. I personally buy the regular green variety, and the store brand generic saves a bundle. Rx chlorhexidine can be helpful for people with more severe gingivitis.
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