The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

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vnatale
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:21 pm

Gosso wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:27 am
Perfect timing!  I just started this regime last week, after Gumby mentioned this in another thread a few months back.

Although I am not using the pre-brush rinse since I couldn't find the stuff at the store; instead I apply toothpaste very gently and allow it to sit for 30 seconds, then start brushing.  I'm planning on picking up some xylitol after work...if I can find it.

I still floss everyday since it can only help as long as the proper technique is used.

I haven't been doing this long enough to notice any major changes, but I have noticed that my mouth feels a lot cleaner when I wake up in the morning.

I also found this article on the Colgate website (of all places!) that suggests that we are better off to allow early tooth decay to heal, rather than drill and fill it in.
So early decay doesn't always mean you need a filling. In fact, the decay often can be reversed. A tooth starts to decay because acid in your mouth causes minerals to leach out of the enamel, and the enamel breaks down. Fluoride therapy, dietary changes and better oral hygiene habits can reverse this process by causing minerals to build up in the tooth again, making the enamel stronger.

In some cases, a filling is a no-brainer. If you're in pain or have an obvious cavity (a break in the surface of your tooth), you need a filling. But, says Dr. Albert, "If there's no cavity and no pain, the tooth can fix itself.

"If I saw 100 patients [who had early decay] and decided to wait six months before treating them, it would be the right decision for 95 of them. I think we do more harm by overtreating, because there will always be complications of treatment," he says.
Thank you for this. It explains a 45 year old personal mystery to me. When I first went to my dentist 45 years ago I had 29 sides of cavities. He went to work on taking care of the ones that needed immediate attention and from then and continuing now I've been super conscientious regarding tooth care. When I asked him why all those cavities did not need to be dealt with he said I'd arrested their development by my new tooth care regime and that many of them were tiny. It was not until now from reading the above did I know that many of those cavities had healed.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:24 pm

williswine wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:38 am
Peelu USA (no affiliation) sells dental fibers made from the same tree as that chewing stick. I have been using http://peelu.com/dental-fibers/spearmint-25-oz/ for years now and my dental hygienist is always amazed at how little plaque I have. I don't really like the taste of it but it leaves my mouth and teeth so clean and it does not leave a toothpaste after taste that sometimes affects my sleep. Added bonus is that it is not a liquid so travels really easy. Oh, and it lasts a long long time (just like my crystal deodorant stick).

I'm however wondering if the system mentioned in the first post wouldn't do an even better job even though it certainly costs a lot more and has many more chemicals involved.  Wonder what Dr Ellie would say, maybe don't change a thing!
Link does not work. And, peelu seems to no longer exist? With the endorsement above, I was going to buy some!

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:40 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 2:20 pm
I had not previously heard of Novamin. Googling it, I found an NIH paper that states that the substance has promise as an anti cavity agent, perhaps superior to fluoride.

I assure you that the ADA and or other dental groups are not trying to prevent its use unless they feel it is unsafe for some reason. We as dentists are always trying to put ourselves out of business in the interest of public health, in spite of what the public believes.

Depending on what issue you are trying to solve with toothpaste, it's unlikely to be a panacea. Many of the formulations, particularly regarding whitening are mostly marketing. Some incarnations have shown promise in other areas. For instance, Pronamel has been shown to reminerailze enamel, but if you sip Coke all day and brush with it only once a week, you will likely still get cavities. Etc. Etc. Xylitol has also shown to be effective.

The best advice I can give you all is brush, floss, Listerine and see your dentist twice a year. Don't ignore small problems as they will become large ones with time.

edit: for spelling and typos that make me regret using a tablet instead of a keyboard
I don't think I have to tell YOU this....but I can assure you that Americans will NEVER put dentists out of business! The only way it will happen is if there are some radical advances in either medical or technology that require Americans to exert no effort on their parts!

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by WiseOne » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:09 am

MangoMan wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:33 am
vnatale wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:40 pm

I don't think I have to tell YOU this....but I can assure you that Americans will NEVER put dentists out of business! The only way it will happen is if there are some radical advances in either medical or technology that require Americans to exert no effort on their parts!

Vinny
Americans will not put us out of business, but that won't be necessary bc we are working hard to put ourselves out of business. There will probably eventually be a 'cure' for tooth decay and gum disease (not in my career, but maybe my son's), and the schools are working diligently to crank out way more graduates than are necessary for the need in urban areas without requiring service in underserved areas. And don't even get me started on how insurance companies and idiotic government regulations are ruining the profitability of what little business remains.
Interesting perspective. Pugchief, what exactly is on the horizon as a 100% preventative for tooth decay and gum disease? That is guaranteed to have no side effects? You see where I'm going with this...I think your profession is safe.

Of course, you'll have to be willing to work harder for less money due to increased administrative burdens brought on by government policies instituted during the Obama presidency. Welcome to our world (i.e. that of medical doctors).
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:46 am

MangoMan wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:33 am
vnatale wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:40 pm

I don't think I have to tell YOU this....but I can assure you that Americans will NEVER put dentists out of business! The only way it will happen is if there are some radical advances in either medical or technology that require Americans to exert no effort on their parts!

Vinny
Americans will not put us out of business, but that won't be necessary bc we are working hard to put ourselves out of business. There will probably eventually be a 'cure' for tooth decay and gum disease (not in my career, but maybe my son's), and the schools are working diligently to crank out way more graduates than are necessary for the need in urban areas without requiring service in underserved areas. And don't even get me started on how insurance companies and idiotic government regulations are ruining the profitability of what little business remains.
What percentage of your patients have insurance?

I think it was for only one year of my life that I had dental insurance. Otherwise it'd been me paying full price. I guess I'm paying for a lot of the people who do have insurance pay their bills? Same for my eye doctor visits. Have never had any insurance to cover them.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:51 am

WiseOne wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:09 am
MangoMan wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:33 am
vnatale wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:40 pm

I don't think I have to tell YOU this....but I can assure you that Americans will NEVER put dentists out of business! The only way it will happen is if there are some radical advances in either medical or technology that require Americans to exert no effort on their parts!

Vinny
Americans will not put us out of business, but that won't be necessary bc we are working hard to put ourselves out of business. There will probably eventually be a 'cure' for tooth decay and gum disease (not in my career, but maybe my son's), and the schools are working diligently to crank out way more graduates than are necessary for the need in urban areas without requiring service in underserved areas. And don't even get me started on how insurance companies and idiotic government regulations are ruining the profitability of what little business remains.
Interesting perspective. Pugchief, what exactly is on the horizon as a 100% preventative for tooth decay and gum disease? That is guaranteed to have no side effects? You see where I'm going with this...I think your profession is safe.

Of course, you'll have to be willing to work harder for less money due to increased administrative burdens brought on by government policies instituted during the Obama presidency. Welcome to our world (i.e. that of medical doctors).
From around 2005 to 2012 or so I did the monthly accounting work for a pediatric group. In part of that work I'd report the gross billings and then the insurance discounts. One time the managing partner in reference to what went on with their billings after insurance said it was "all funny money".

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:41 am

MangoMan wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:12 am
vnatale wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:46 am
MangoMan wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:33 am
vnatale wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:40 pm

I don't think I have to tell YOU this....but I can assure you that Americans will NEVER put dentists out of business! The only way it will happen is if there are some radical advances in either medical or technology that require Americans to exert no effort on their parts!

Vinny
Americans will not put us out of business, but that won't be necessary bc we are working hard to put ourselves out of business. There will probably eventually be a 'cure' for tooth decay and gum disease (not in my career, but maybe my son's), and the schools are working diligently to crank out way more graduates than are necessary for the need in urban areas without requiring service in underserved areas. And don't even get me started on how insurance companies and idiotic government regulations are ruining the profitability of what little business remains.
What percentage of your patients have insurance?

Vinny
Around 95% have either an HMO, PPO or some kind of discount plan. Less than 5% pay pay full price. So for all practical purposes, I don't decide what I charge, the insurance companies do. Of course, they have no clue what my overhead is, particularly the real estates taxes on my office building. My costs keep going up, but the fees have been essentially stagnant for a decade. If I choose not to participate, I lose 90% of my patients.
I am fairly certain that my dentist only accepts one or two forms of insurance (Blue Cross / Blue Shield being one of them). So, it seems most of his patients are full payers like myself?

I've been on Medicare since April 2016 but have yet to chose the dental option. It's that time of year to review it and decide if the financial savings from having it will exceed the cost of the premiums.

My basic annual dental costs are three cleanings which include a dentist exam which I think are about $130 total each. And, now, upcoming is a crown (?) or something similar which will cost about $1,200 or $1,300? I think for something like that, though, you have to have a certain level coverage plus have been the plan for a certain length of time? In other words if I join the plan in January 2020 I don't think I'd have coverage for it in January 2020. Maybe in January 2021?

In any event, I've always believed in investing money in my teeth and not going cheap in that area.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:18 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:16 pm
The difference is that you live in a small, ruralish town where there is less dentist competition, so providers can just refuse to participate in most PPOs. I practice in a suburb of Chicago where the competition is fierce, so basically everyone who wants to actually work participates.
Actually, I live 45 minutes away from my dentist. At some point I will privately send to you what I am paying and the demographics of the town in which he has his practice. Less than a mile from his office is an expensive college, one of the Seven Sisters - the female equivalent of the once predominantly male Ivy League.

And, this is one of the rare cases where those in near the city are paying LESS than those in the rural?

There is one dental practice about 5 or so miles from my house. And, another four in the next town over, where I work. But I've chosen to remain with my dentist who is 45 minutes / nearly 40 miles away. It's a semi-major event when I go for those cleanings. I budget for 3 hours from when I leave my house until when I get home.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by williswine » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:08 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:24 pm
williswine wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:38 am
Peelu USA (no affiliation) sells dental fibers made from the same tree as that chewing stick. I have been using http://peelu.com/dental-fibers/spearmint-25-oz/ for years now and my dental hygienist is always amazed at how little plaque I have. I don't really like the taste of it but it leaves my mouth and teeth so clean and it does not leave a toothpaste after taste that sometimes affects my sleep. Added bonus is that it is not a liquid so travels really easy. Oh, and it lasts a long long time (just like my crystal deodorant stick).

I'm however wondering if the system mentioned in the first post wouldn't do an even better job even though it certainly costs a lot more and has many more chemicals involved.  Wonder what Dr Ellie would say, maybe don't change a thing!
Link does not work. And, peelu seems to no longer exist? With the endorsement above, I was going to buy some!

Vinny
Vinny, I didn't realize you were PMing people until now. I haven't used Peelu in a long while as I can't find it as easily as I once did. I've switched to the system in the first post. It prevents tartar buildup big time so my hygienist rarely if ever has to use powered tools. I have had some decay under this system but I can't always follow it to the letter when I'm on the road...
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by bedraggled » Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:18 am

Dentistry in the virus era.

Whether the virus calms soon or not, we and, of course Pug, need to resolve the pressing tooth care situation.

For example, my 6 month check up is due in late June. So, i am good. The excellent dentist I have seen since 1986 is approaching age 73 with questionable health. He, though, is 1,200 miles away in New York. The man may decide to fold his tent. He has paid his dues.

When I had an emergency crown done here in Florida, the work was top notch. The good Florida dentist said I needed an expensive night guard for tooth grinding. The New York dentist had a comfortable guard made- no charge through insurance. Re the night guard, the New York dentist then explained many small practices are being consolidated with a profit motive. Ergo, the expensive night guard. Also, Dr New York said he had been tracking my tooth grinding for 20 years with no emergencies, so far. The New York experience is class dentistry.

I have located a wholistic dentist down here, also. Two choices now but what to do?

Also, Pug, I would prefer to not extend the time between check-ups to 1 Year? Vinny has suggested paying for more cleanings beyond insurance coverage and I did just that. There is a contradiction here. As Yul Brenner stated: "It is a puzzlement."
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by bedraggled » Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:28 am

DW suggested we floss more, use more Listerine and change toothbrushes more often than once per month. Does this allow for time between visits? We have been vigilant with the teeth for more than 3 decades. We even pay the kids to get to the dentist twice a year. Money works better than gold stars. Those payments? We didn't get them great teeth though scheduled dentistry to have the enamel neglected now because "I'm too busy." Are the wife and I unique in our regard for dentistry?

Oh, the New York dentist suggested Listerine can darken teeth. Life is grand explore!
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:22 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:15 pm
Brush 3x/day. Change brush every 2 months. Run thru dishwasher every 2 weeks.
Floss at bedtime.
Use listerine before each brushing and/or flossing. It will not discolor your teeth. Chlorhexidine rinse will, but that is by Rx only.
Night guard is a good idea if ANY signs of grinding or clenching. Damage is slow and progressive.
Time between professional cleaning varies by patient. I have some that could come once a year or maybe less and be fine. I have others that should probably come every 2 months but don't.
Not sure why your guy would continue to practice at 73 unless he is bad with money or hates his wife and is trying to avoid her.
Holistic dentistry is a crock/scam in my opinion, YMMV.

Not sure what I will do when this ends. My son can take over my practice completely or I can continue part time. Prob depends on how draconian the new regulations to practice are and how serious the threat of ill health is to me. I am working now for fun, not necessity. Full time would be too much, but 12 hours per week is still enjoyable and my back is a lot happier.
Thanks for sharing the advice, Pug. Your's is a profession I highly value. Best of luck to you in whatever the future holds. 8)
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by bedraggled » Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:50 pm

Pug,

I just submitted a lengthy reply but the system may have eaten it.

I'll try again later. I'll tell Xan in that other thread.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:40 pm

bedraggled wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:50 pm
Pug,

I just submitted a lengthy reply but the system may have eaten it.

I'll try again later. I'll tell Xan in that other thread.
The same has happened to me several times. However, I am now forced to conclude that it's always been due to the dreaded "operator error".

I think it has something to do with either quoting or previewing that requires to me to do a "double" submit. It's those times that I don't that what I thought I'd submitted, it turns out that I never did.

Also, for anything that is quite lengthy and out of concern that anything can happen to a computer at any time I send an email to myself with my draft so far so I can easily recover my draft prior to my final "Submit".

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by bedraggled » Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:44 am

Pug,

Here's the 2nd try at explaining the situation for the New York dentist we see who is approaching age 73.

He's on a reduced schedule with low office overhead. His wife is a gem who works with him. Everyone thinks she is a gem. He's in 4 mornings per week with travel time off during holidays. We have been seeing him for 36 years and have brought the kids in, too. If the virus pushes him into retirement, he be on the golf course every day. At age 72, his practice gives him something to do after early morning laps at the nearby pool. He recently sold his nearby home and moved near the golf course, he doesn't bicycle to work anymore I wish I was in as good shape.

In Florida last year, I got a crown done. It was good work and I mentioned the work on this thread. They encouraged me to order a $600 guard to prevent night tooth grinding. It looked huge. The New York dentist told me over the phone to hold off. He had been watching any grinding issues for several decades, said there was no real rush and prescribed a small, comfortable guard for $100 that insurance paid. The New York dentist said many small practices are being merged with a profit motive. He said he was content with his one dentist set up and enjoyed working with his familiar patients. We are happy and fly in twice each year. A third time, if convenient, for Vinny's suggested "pay for extra cleanings."

He recommended his friend and golf buddy, the oral surgeon, to pull our kids' wisdom teeth in anticipation of braces. Nice work there, too. Years later we met the surgeon and thanked him for the great work. Those situations rarely arise.

As part of the journey, we found a great orthodontist, not far away in the NYC northwestern suburbs. After 3 years of arriving early for monthly appointment @ 8:30AM, he commented that we never miss, drive 45 minutes and cross the George Washington Bridge in traffic. He said patients down the block regularly miss appointments and demand to be seen. We approach everything with courtesy. We get stressed in we might be late.

I suspect we will have a sense of loss when Dr. NY retires full time to his driver and 5 iron.

And thanks for the input on wholistic dentistry. That simplifies the future.

Cheers.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by bedraggled » Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:40 pm

Pug,

It's been a great 3 1/2 decades.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by bedraggled » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:06 pm

Pug,

We came up with a good one on the home front.

After almost three decades of dental care for the kids, our two were finding it too time consuming for semi-annual visits to Dr. NY. We decided to pay them. So, when we hear about a check up, we transfer cash to their accounts. They seem pretty pleased with the arrangement. All our effort should not go out the window. And they have darn good teeth.

If either suggests a desired item or activity is a tad expensive, we know a way to increase the ol' cash balance. It works.

As Wiley Coyote said: "Genius! That's what it is! Sheer Genius!"

Does this generation think teeth grow on trees? (Do they? I am not a dentist?)

Also, we know a good dentist in Galway, Ireland. When a crown popped off switching planes in Philadelphia, we used the internet. A train ride away. Cost to glue the crown, 50 Euros on the credit card. Don't know how to judge the expense but good dentistry is priceless.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by bedraggled » Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:25 pm

pug,

i read it a few years ago. which particular story?
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:10 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:47 pm

I suggest you read Thomas Stanley's The Millionaire Next Door.
I read a review of that book I believe Thanksgiving 1997? I expected the book to be available. It was not. Every week I'd go to the bookstore and ask if it was in. No. Weeks and weeks go by and now even moths. I ask and the answer is No. I gave up. Then one day I was in the section and to my shock it was there! I was overjoyed. I must have read it in one sitting because it reaffirmed all that I was!

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by bedraggled » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:28 pm

Pug,

I'm at the 6-month mark for visiting the dentist. We hope to fly up for Thanksgiving but I don't know. This is uncharted territory and I don't like it. Listerine does some nice work per your suggestion.

On the lighter side, I note you are a Tesla owner. I am envious. In my last six gas station visits there were things going on that maximized inconvenience. I don't want to go to gas stations anymore. I will move any further Tesla discussion to the Cars We Love/Hate and May Buy thread.

In conclusion, I saw your recommendation on The Millionaire Next Door. I didn't get to. I will get the Kindle out this evening. Thanks.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:53 pm

dualstow wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:29 pm
Welcome back, MG. I miss your tech posts.
Not even the Mighty Dualstow with all his super powers is able to bring MachineGhost back to the forum?

During my many, many, many months through the archives I read a great amount written by him. But never had the opportunity to interact with him. He was the Hank Aaron of the forum in terms of total posts until you not that long ago Barry Bonds'ed him. And, I don't believe you achieved that goal through the use of any "special supplements". I think you did it all through the natural strength of your own fingers.

His original post which started this topic was outstanding!

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:02 pm

dualstow wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:30 pm
williswine wrote: Peelu USA (no affiliation) sells dental fibers made from the same tree as that chewing stick.
Neat! I have bought Peelu's xylitol gum before. It wasn't cheap, but it was good quality.
Since July I've been committed to chewing Dr. Ellie's gum many times a day...after each time I eat something. Soon I will also be purchasing her mints. 20% off buying things from her web site for the next five days or so with the proper code.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:17 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:10 am
Deep Thoughts :  On tooth and gum maintenance.

I have long felt that the standard approach to teeth maintenance is inherently flawed.  I base that on the following premises:

1) Tooth and gum disease is clearly a chemical or biological issue - yet virtually all  practitioners rely on coarse mechanical means for maintenance.  Toothbrush, floss, “cleanings”? by the dental hygienist.  This is clearly whacking at the leaves while ignoring the root.

2) Taken as a whole, wild animals don’t have tooth and gum disease.  Other than being domesticated, why should humans be different?

Over a few years of experimentation, I’ve finally gotten to the point where I was able to discard my dentist.  For mechanical maintenance, I brush twice a day to remove wine and coffee stains (purely out of vanity).

By pure accident, while exploring other aspects of human biology, my previous periodontal and tooth decay issues have disappeared. Here’s what works for me:

1) I don’t eat carbohydrates - so no dental caries.  The bugs that produce caries starve to death in my mouth.

2) I eat a lot of raw free range egg yolks.  They are very high in vitamin K2.  Vitamin K2 carboxylates (i.e. activates) the protein osteocalcin which forces free calcium into the bones and teeth - and prevents it from depositing into the soft tissues such as the arteries and gums - thus no teeth tartar to scrape off.

3) I eat an ounces of hydrolyzed collagen every day.  Scurvy (you know the disease that most people believe is a lack of vitamin C?) is really a disease of deficient collagen production.  The teeth get loose and bleed, the joints ache, the organs fail.  Pretty much the same thing that happens to us as we get older.  As we get older, we don’t manufacture collagen as easily.  We get more and more scurvy like.  Taking collagen directly in our diet mitigates the production issue - and reverses many of the symptoms - including periodontal disease.

So… I didn’t set out to address tooth and gum issues in my own life, but some of the other things that I experimented with inadvertently eliminated them entirely.
Earlier this year I read both of Dr. Ellie's books and started following her regime in early July. In preparation for my first dentist visit (yesterday) since last January I reread both of her books late last week.

Regarding the items I highlighted above...

1) Total agreement with what Dr. Ellie preaches. That what is going on in your mouth chemically is primarily going to
cause any mouth problems. Keep the good bacteria and eliminate the bad bacteria and you will have good results.

2) Eating carbohydrates and leaving them unmanaged in the mouth then provides the perfect food for the bad bacteria to feed upon and then grow to wreak havoc in your mouth.

She does not address the other items that you cite as being effective. I cannot render any judgment on their effectiveness.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:21 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:56 am
WiseOne wrote:
Mark Leavy wrote: 2) Taken as a whole, wild animals don’t have tooth and gum disease.  Other than being domesticated, why should humans be different?
Because we now live longer thanks to agriculture, sanitary engineering, antibiotics etc.  As the old saw goes, it's no fun getting old but the alternative isn't so great either.
It is also because the wild animals don't eat the crap modern humans do.
WiseOne wrote:
I thought the grapefruit seed extract in Petzlife is the active ingredient that sets it apart from Listerine.  Listerine does indeed kill bacteria & viruses (it's the best remedy I've ever found for cankersores) and Closys apparently does same, but these products do nothing for tartar once it's formed.  The petzlife stuff really does dissolve tartar.  I don't know of any product made for humans that does this successfully, including all those "tartar control" toothpastes.
Yep, that pet spray is mostly Listerine. Tartar is essentially old plaque that has not been removed by mechanical means [brushing, flossing] that hardens from exposure to calcium salt precipitates in the saliva.
Has anyone else laughed at or questioned when someone says: "Don't feed that to the dog because it is bad for him" with you responding with: "If it is bad for him why isn't it bad for us, also??!!"

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:32 pm

MachineGhost wrote:
Fri May 23, 2014 11:36 am
Got my teeth cleaned for the first time since I started the regime, and there was hardly anything to remove.  No painful pulling or scraping requiring numbing agent; no flossing required.  But I had staining which took the most amount of time to deal with.  Overall, it took about 30 minutes.  I figure that's from either when I used Schulze's herbal formula which stains everything, the Closys reacting and oxidizing or a new idea this morning, the beet-based sublingual SOD.  We'll see.
Yesterday was also my first teeth cleaning since I started the regime in early July. My last one had been January 2020. I'd prior been getting them every four months so that it'd be less painful from the accumulation being removed from the last time it'd been removed.

This was the first time with this dentist office after 46 years with my prior dentist. Thus, first time with this dental hygienist. She remarked that my mouth care must be good because my gums were excellent and my teeth were also looking good. She found little tartar or calculus.

I had gone there concerned because my teeth at that point had a heavy brown stain, something I'd never prior experienced. But she was not concerned at all with the staining and easily removed it.

With my prior hygienist because I am so sensitive to anything going on in my mouth I'd always get a "topical" to numb my mouth somewhat while the teeth cleaning was going on. Even with that topical I'd still feel pain during the cleaning.

Yesterday I felt ZERO pain with the teeth cleaning. Had never prior experienced that. No topical had been used. I don't know if that was due to the new hygienist being superior to all the ones I'd ever prior had or it was due to the Dr. Ellie regime I'd been faithfully following for the prior five months. I had stopped flossing totally after starting her regime.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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