The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
I have just received my Closys rinse purchased through Amazon. I like the way it makes my mouth feel and am gargling with it too. Could it be used as a gargle to help prevent sore/strep throats as well?
- Mark Leavy
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
Deep Thoughts : On tooth and gum maintenance.
I have long felt that the standard approach to teeth maintenance is inherently flawed. I base that on the following premises:
1) Tooth and gum disease is clearly a chemical or biological issue - yet virtually all practitioners rely on coarse mechanical means for maintenance. Toothbrush, floss, “cleanings”? by the dental hygienist. This is clearly whacking at the leaves while ignoring the root.
2) Taken as a whole, wild animals don’t have tooth and gum disease. Other than being domesticated, why should humans be different?
Over a few years of experimentation, I’ve finally gotten to the point where I was able to discard my dentist. For mechanical maintenance, I brush twice a day to remove wine and coffee stains (purely out of vanity).
By pure accident, while exploring other aspects of human biology, my previous periodontal and tooth decay issues have disappeared. Here’s what works for me:
1) I don’t eat carbohydrates - so no dental caries. The bugs that produce caries starve to death in my mouth.
2) I eat a lot of raw free range egg yolks. They are very high in vitamin K2. Vitamin K2 carboxylates (i.e. activates) the protein osteocalcin which forces free calcium into the bones and teeth - and prevents it from depositing into the soft tissues such as the arteries and gums - thus no teeth tartar to scrape off.
3) I eat an ounces of hydrolyzed collagen every day. Scurvy (you know the disease that most people believe is a lack of vitamin C?) is really a disease of deficient collagen production. The teeth get loose and bleed, the joints ache, the organs fail. Pretty much the same thing that happens to us as we get older. As we get older, we don’t manufacture collagen as easily. We get more and more scurvy like. Taking collagen directly in our diet mitigates the production issue - and reverses many of the symptoms - including periodontal disease.
So… I didn’t set out to address tooth and gum issues in my own life, but some of the other things that I experimented with inadvertently eliminated them entirely.
I have long felt that the standard approach to teeth maintenance is inherently flawed. I base that on the following premises:
1) Tooth and gum disease is clearly a chemical or biological issue - yet virtually all practitioners rely on coarse mechanical means for maintenance. Toothbrush, floss, “cleanings”? by the dental hygienist. This is clearly whacking at the leaves while ignoring the root.
2) Taken as a whole, wild animals don’t have tooth and gum disease. Other than being domesticated, why should humans be different?
Over a few years of experimentation, I’ve finally gotten to the point where I was able to discard my dentist. For mechanical maintenance, I brush twice a day to remove wine and coffee stains (purely out of vanity).
By pure accident, while exploring other aspects of human biology, my previous periodontal and tooth decay issues have disappeared. Here’s what works for me:
1) I don’t eat carbohydrates - so no dental caries. The bugs that produce caries starve to death in my mouth.
2) I eat a lot of raw free range egg yolks. They are very high in vitamin K2. Vitamin K2 carboxylates (i.e. activates) the protein osteocalcin which forces free calcium into the bones and teeth - and prevents it from depositing into the soft tissues such as the arteries and gums - thus no teeth tartar to scrape off.
3) I eat an ounces of hydrolyzed collagen every day. Scurvy (you know the disease that most people believe is a lack of vitamin C?) is really a disease of deficient collagen production. The teeth get loose and bleed, the joints ache, the organs fail. Pretty much the same thing that happens to us as we get older. As we get older, we don’t manufacture collagen as easily. We get more and more scurvy like. Taking collagen directly in our diet mitigates the production issue - and reverses many of the symptoms - including periodontal disease.
So… I didn’t set out to address tooth and gum issues in my own life, but some of the other things that I experimented with inadvertently eliminated them entirely.
Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
MG,MachineGhost wrote: I fear that you guys may not be realizing how interdependent the regime products are on each other. They're not to be used in isolation nor the use of substitution products or in isolation. Yes, I know human nature loves novelty and loves to tinker and ruin a good thing, but realize you are going up against 30-years of clinical experience as well as literature evidence on what really works.
This thread had been up for so long I had forgotten what the regimen was.
"you are going up against 30-years of clinical experience"
So the regimen has worked well for pts for 30 years. The regimen has multiple components. How does anyone know that all the components are needed? If the closys kills all the bacteria why the listerene?
"as well as literature evidence on what really works. "
Unless they did studies on the regimen with and without the listerene and with and without the act, there is no way of knowing if those are necessary.
It was good being the party of Robin Hood. Until they morphed into the Sheriff of Nottingham
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
There are $1 off coupons off CloSys every month at their website (you can print two), good for use at drugstores. Especially when said drugstore puts it on sale.Reub wrote: I have just received my Closys rinse purchased through Amazon. I like the way it makes my mouth feel and am gargling with it too. Could it be used as a gargle to help prevent sore/strep throats as well?
My elderly mother cannot tolerate Listerine (even that useless Zero alcohol version) or the ACT, so she may be forced to rely on CloSys exclusively. Not ideal. I'll look into her trying the PetzLife as a Listerine replacement.
Benko: The CloSys is primarily used to raise the pH of your mouth to protect it against the toothpaste and brushing. That it being a wetting agent of chlorine dioxide to heal gum pockets is a bonus. The Listerine is the real germ killer and is also used to disinfect your brush. Plus the acidity of the Listerine helps the relatively higher pH ACT stick to the teeth better.
Okay then, we'll just say that while the individual products have decades of efficacy as demonstrated in the literature and by the ADA, the 30-years of clinical experience is in putting them together as a regime.
Tongue scraping, Emma-Dent (true ultrasonic brush), flossing, waterpicking, its all a bonus to the core regime. I don't do the xylitol step throughout the day as I'm sensitive to the amounts necessary to have efficacy.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
Thanks MG, point taken.
I will stick to the oral B for brushing as it has an accessary nice pointy brush for use between teeth which is almost as good as flossing.
I will stick to the oral B for brushing as it has an accessary nice pointy brush for use between teeth which is almost as good as flossing.
It was good being the party of Robin Hood. Until they morphed into the Sheriff of Nottingham
Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
Because we now live longer thanks to agriculture, sanitary engineering, antibiotics etc. As the old saw goes, it's no fun getting old but the alternative isn't so great either.Mark Leavy wrote: 2) Taken as a whole, wild animals don’t have tooth and gum disease. Other than being domesticated, why should humans be different?
I thought the grapefruit seed extract in Petzlife is the active ingredient that sets it apart from Listerine. Listerine does indeed kill bacteria & viruses (it's the best remedy I've ever found for cankersores) and Closys apparently does same, but these products do nothing for tartar once it's formed. The petzlife stuff really does dissolve tartar. I don't know of any product made for humans that does this successfully, including all those "tartar control" toothpastes.
Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
I've had good luck with tartar control in colgate in preventing tartar formation when used regularly.WiseOne wrote: The petzlife stuff really does dissolve tartar. I don't know of any product made for humans that does this successfully, including all those "tartar control" toothpastes.
It was good being the party of Robin Hood. Until they morphed into the Sheriff of Nottingham
- dualstow
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
I say, I say, does Closys rinse or any part of this regime mess with your sense of taste?dualstow wrote: Let me know if the Closys interferes with your sense of taste at all. I rinse with Biotene.
<snip>
- MachineGhost
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
- MachineGhost
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
I mentioned it does if I use it more than once a day.dualstow wrote: I say, I say, does Closys rinse or any part of this regime mess with your sense of taste?
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
- dualstow
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
Ah, thanks. I missed it.MachineGhost wrote:I mentioned it does if I use it more than once a day.dualstow wrote: I say, I say, does Closys rinse or any part of this regime mess with your sense of taste?
- MachineGhost
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
Got my teeth cleaned for the first time since I started the regime, and there was hardly anything to remove. No painful pulling or scraping requiring numbing agent; no flossing required. But I had staining which took the most amount of time to deal with. Overall, it took about 30 minutes. I figure that's from either when I used Schulze's herbal formula which stains everything, the Closys reacting and oxidizing or a new idea this morning, the beet-based sublingual SOD. We'll see.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Fri May 23, 2014 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
MG
Just noticed the part about soaking your toothbrush in a cup of listerene. Do you really think that makes any difference?
Just noticed the part about soaking your toothbrush in a cup of listerene. Do you really think that makes any difference?
It was good being the party of Robin Hood. Until they morphed into the Sheriff of Nottingham
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
Oh yeah, toothbrushes are disgusting cesspools of bacteria (especially spray from uncovered toilet) and recontaminating your teeth isn't a great idea. That being said, I rarely do it because I don't like wasting so much listerine. Maybe I'll just start cleaning the brush along with the nightguard in the ultrasonic cleaner every morning.Benko wrote: Just noticed the part about soaking your toothbrush in a cup of listerene. Do you really think that makes any difference?
Be sure you tip your head back and to the sides to get the back molars when doing the squishing.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
- dualstow
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
I remember reading the website of an anti-plastic woman, and she made mouthwash out of vodka. I suppose it's the same main ingredient as Listerine: ethanol. But, no menthol, thymol, methyl salicylate, or eucalyptol.
Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
I would disagree which are the most important ingredients.dualstow wrote: I remember reading the website of an anti-plastic woman, and she made mouthwash out of vodka. I suppose it's the same main ingredient as Listerine: ethanol. But, no menthol, thymol, methyl salicylate, or eucalyptol.
It was good being the party of Robin Hood. Until they morphed into the Sheriff of Nottingham
Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
MG,MachineGhost wrote:Oh yeah, toothbrushes are disgusting cesspools of bacteria (especially spray from uncovered toilet) and recontaminating your teeth isn't a great idea. That being said, I rarely do it because I don't like wasting so much listerine. Maybe I'll just start cleaning the brush along with the nightguard in the ultrasonic cleaner every morning.Benko wrote: Just noticed the part about soaking your toothbrush in a cup of listerene. Do you really think that makes any difference?
Be sure you tip your head back and to the sides to get the back molars when doing the squishing.
Important point for those who were unaware about toilet spray and the importance of not keeping uncovered toothbrushes in the bathroom. I have an Oral B and there is a little covered container you put the brushhead in between uses.
OK which part is the squishing again?
It was good being the party of Robin Hood. Until they morphed into the Sheriff of Nottingham
Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
Agree. I misunderstood when you listed main ingredient as alcohol.
It was good being the party of Robin Hood. Until they morphed into the Sheriff of Nottingham
- dualstow
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
That was I who misleadingly called ethanol the "main" ingredient, but yes, not necessarily the active ingredient. In the vodka mouthwash recipe, it was the germ killer, with some peppermint or cinnamon added for fresh breath.Benko wrote: Agree. I misunderstood when you listed main ingredient as alcohol.
P.S. Finally got some Closys rinse this week. My mouth feels kind of like a swimming pool, but I like it.
Last edited by dualstow on Fri May 23, 2014 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
Avoid the "Total Care" type toothpastes and mouth rinses. They will interfere with the regime's effectiveness, mostly because of the tartar-control and antibacterial type of bioagents which are unproven safe long-term (and the FDA will ban triclosan eventually as it is an endocrine disrupter, promotes cancer as well as bacterial resistance). There's some horror stories of mouth cancer or serious teeth/gum problems from using "Total Care" type toothpastes. Crest Original is simple, proven and hasn't been changed in literally decades. Why mess around? For that matter, do not also use the flavoring bottle that comes with the Closys. It also interferes with the effectiveness.MangoMan wrote: The menthol, thymol, eucalyptol, and methyl salicylate [essential oils] are the active ingredients. The alcohol is only present to keep the essential oils in solution. The newer Total Care line eliminates the alcohol and uses another ingredient to hold the oils in solution. They also add fluoride.
The worry over the alcohol in mouthrinses has become another urban legend. It's not the alcohol that's the problem per se, but going to bed with a dry mouth from alcohol (or acidic PH). Hence ACT Anticavity for the last step and not any of the other "Total Care" kind of ACTs.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Tue May 27, 2014 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
I just wanted to post an update that the teeth staining was not casued by the regime but by the beet root powder acting as a carrier in the sublingual S.O.D. that I take. The directions say hold for two minutes then swallow -- well I was holding it for around 10 minutes while shaving in a hot sauna. Doh!
I also had my lower wisdom teeth extracted at my request about two weeks ago and the regime really amped up the gum recovery to warp speed!
I also had my lower wisdom teeth extracted at my request about two weeks ago and the regime really amped up the gum recovery to warp speed!
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
- Mark Leavy
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
I love you man. Even when you call me whacko.MachineGhost wrote: I just wanted to post an update that the teeth staining was not casued by the regime but by the beet root powder acting as a carrier in the sublingual S.O.D. that I take. The directions say hold for two minutes then swallow -- well I was holding it for around 10 minutes while shaving in a hot sauna. Doh!
I also had my lower wisdom teeth extracted at my request about two weeks ago and the regime really amped up the gum recovery to warp speed!
Mark
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
Plaque attack: Close up images of teeth reveal what lives in your mouth
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picture ... me=3022995
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picture ... me=3022995
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
Can we get this sticked? It's a ridiculously awesome thread.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime
Just wanted to post some feedback. Been using the regimen, especially the chlorine based rinse most religiously, and it has helped a lot.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
It was good being the party of Robin Hood. Until they morphed into the Sheriff of Nottingham