Wealth Distribution in America
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Wealth Distribution in America
I know everyone has heard about the uneven wealth distribution in the United States...but this video does a good job of putting it into pictures.
Currently most Americans have no idea how skewed things have become. Also, 9 out of 10 favor a more equal distribution. How does this gulf between reality and ideal get bridged as this information begins to trickle down through society?
http://beingliberal.upworthy.com/9-out- ... ing-fact-3
Currently most Americans have no idea how skewed things have become. Also, 9 out of 10 favor a more equal distribution. How does this gulf between reality and ideal get bridged as this information begins to trickle down through society?
http://beingliberal.upworthy.com/9-out- ... ing-fact-3
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. - Blaise Pascal
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
Why is this of more concern than the unemployment rate/current economic worries in this country and policies responsible for them?
It was good being the party of Robin Hood. Until they morphed into the Sheriff of Nottingham
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
Many people think they are relatedBenko wrote: Why is this of more concern than the unemployment rate/current economic worries in this country and policies responsible for them?
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
Dieter wrote:Many people think they are relatedBenko wrote: Why is this of more concern than the unemployment rate/current economic worries in this country and policies responsible for them?
Simonjester wrote: so is the problem wealth disparity or upward mobility?
if upward mobility is achieved through redistribution you really don't solve the upward mobility problem, your upward mobility is not of your own making but rests in the hands of somebody else, somebody that you hope will (and probably wont) give you something.. if you focus on improving upward mobility by having a fair and just (corruption and cronyism free) system then wealth disparity is meaningless, you have a shot at getting as much as you are willing or able to achieve, and the fortunes of others are not interfering with your chances, they are not something to envy or feel entitled to, they are examples to be followed
Is that as in the wealth distribution inequallity is causing the current problems, or heaven forfend, the policies of the current administration is aggrivating the current problems?
It was good being the party of Robin Hood. Until they morphed into the Sheriff of Nottingham
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
Not shocking that 9 out of 10 prefer a more equal distribution of wealth. But 9 out of 10 of those 9 out if 10 would probably change their minds if it meant distributing their own wealth.doodle wrote: I know everyone has heard about the uneven wealth distribution in the United States...but this video does a good job of putting it into pictures.
Currently most Americans have no idea how skewed things have become. Also, 9 out of 10 favor a more equal distribution. How does this gulf between reality and ideal get bridged as this information begins to trickle down through society?
http://beingliberal.upworthy.com/9-out- ... ing-fact-3
Reminds me of the claims that a vast majority of Americans believe a balanced approach of spending cuts and additional revenue is best for deficit reduction. Wonder how many would change their mind if it meant their own tax rate going up.
Last edited by iwealth on Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
90% have no idea how unequal things have become.iwealth wrote:Not shocking that 9 out of 10 prefer a more equal distribution of wealth. But 9 out of 10 of those 9 out if 10 would probably change their minds if it meant distributing their own wealth.doodle wrote: I know everyone has heard about the uneven wealth distribution in the United States...but this video does a good job of putting it into pictures.
Currently most Americans have no idea how skewed things have become. Also, 9 out of 10 favor a more equal distribution. How does this gulf between reality and ideal get bridged as this information begins to trickle down through society?
http://beingliberal.upworthy.com/9-out- ... ing-fact-3
Reminds me of the claims that a vast majority of Americans believe a balanced approach of spending cuts and additional revenue is best for deficit reduction. Wonder how many would change their mind if it meant their own tax rate going up.
This has been a trend for the last 30 years.Benko wrote:Is that as in the wealth distribution inequallity is causing the current problems, or heaven forfend, the policies of the current administration is aggrivating the current problems?Dieter wrote:Many people think they are relatedBenko wrote: Why is this of more concern than the unemployment rate/current economic worries in this country and policies responsible for them?
Look, I don't care what is morally right or wrong at this point and what logic you use to justify your position. What I care about is the effects that low socio-economic mobility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-econ ... _countries) and wide wealth disparity have on civil society and our democracy.
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. - Blaise Pascal
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
Who exactly is on the list of the one percenters?
I know Doodle and I aren't on it...
I know Doodle and I aren't on it...
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
Well since the progressivity of the federal income tax is a bit of an exception of the overall tax system, and federal income taxes only make up 20%-30% of overall taxes collected (if memory serves... sorry for the lack of precision), there's a very high chance that these assertions will result in higher taxes on "us 99%" as well.iwealth wrote:Not shocking that 9 out of 10 prefer a more equal distribution of wealth. But 9 out of 10 of those 9 out if 10 would probably change their minds if it meant distributing their own wealth.doodle wrote: I know everyone has heard about the uneven wealth distribution in the United States...but this video does a good job of putting it into pictures.
Currently most Americans have no idea how skewed things have become. Also, 9 out of 10 favor a more equal distribution. How does this gulf between reality and ideal get bridged as this information begins to trickle down through society?
http://beingliberal.upworthy.com/9-out- ... ing-fact-3
Reminds me of the claims that a vast majority of Americans believe a balanced approach of spending cuts and additional revenue is best for deficit reduction. Wonder how many would change their mind if it meant their own tax rate going up.
In fact, people are paying an additional 2% in payroll taxes in 2013... business owners making less than $110k per year are paying 4% more... diminishing from 4% above that point.
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."
- Thomas Paine
- Thomas Paine
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
What remedies are you proposing for unequal income distribution?doodle wrote: Look, I don't care what is morally right or wrong at this point and what logic you use to justify your position. What I care about is the effects that low socio-economic mobility and wide wealth disparity have on civil society and our democracy.
Can you name anyplace else on earth where what you are proposing has been tried and worked?
It was good being the party of Robin Hood. Until they morphed into the Sheriff of Nottingham
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
Universal healthcare, a base retirement pension, free education, and other social insurance programs, in a healthy balance with an otherwise free-market economy seem to do a pretty decent job.Benko wrote:What remedies are you proposing for unequal income distribution?doodle wrote: Look, I don't care what is morally right or wrong at this point and what logic you use to justify your position. What I care about is the effects that low socio-economic mobility and wide wealth disparity have on civil society and our democracy.
Can you name anyplace else on earth where what you are proposing has been tried and worked?
Can you point to a "free society" that appears to "work better" than some of the socialist hell-holes we call metropolitan centers?
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."
- Thomas Paine
- Thomas Paine
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Re: Wealth Distribution in America
That gives us everything we need to evaluate your statements.doodle wrote: Look, I don't care what is morally right or wrong at this point and what logic you use to justify your position.
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
Didn't it work in the 1950s in the U.S.?Benko wrote:What remedies are you proposing for unequal income distribution?doodle wrote: Look, I don't care what is morally right or wrong at this point and what logic you use to justify your position. What I care about is the effects that low socio-economic mobility and wide wealth disparity have on civil society and our democracy.
Can you name anyplace else on earth where what you are proposing has been tried and worked?
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Re: Wealth Distribution in America
So if the present trend that the video clearly outlines continues, do you think we end up with a freer more enlightened society, or an oligarchy? Also, are there more aspects to freedom than those which just comprise ones ability to amass great fortune? Should all children have the freedom to the same quality education irrespective of their parents economic status?Benko wrote:What remedies are you proposing for unequal income distribution?doodle wrote: Look, I don't care what is morally right or wrong at this point and what logic you use to justify your position. What I care about is the effects that low socio-economic mobility and wide wealth disparity have on civil society and our democracy.
Can you name anyplace else on earth where what you are proposing has been tried and worked?
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. - Blaise Pascal
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Re: Wealth Distribution in America
As if we weren't already in an oligarchy? That's hilarious!doodle wrote:So if the present trend that the video clearly outlines continues, do you think we end up with a freer more enlightened society, or an oligarchy? Also, are there more aspects to freedom than those which just comprise ones ability to amass great fortune? Should all children have the freedom to the same quality education irrespective of their parents economic status?Benko wrote:What remedies are you proposing for unequal income distribution?doodle wrote: Look, I don't care what is morally right or wrong at this point and what logic you use to justify your position. What I care about is the effects that low socio-economic mobility and wide wealth disparity have on civil society and our democracy.
Can you name anyplace else on earth where what you are proposing has been tried and worked?
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
What was the income distribution, tax rates, competitors situation, and freedoms in the 50's? (Flatter, higher, rebuilding, a bit behind if not a white male)MediumTex wrote:Didn't it work in the 1950s in the U.S.?Benko wrote:What remedies are you proposing for unequal income distribution?doodle wrote: Look, I don't care what is morally right or wrong at this point and what logic you use to justify your position. What I care about is the effects that low socio-economic mobility and wide wealth disparity have on civil society and our democracy.
Can you name anyplace else on earth where what you are proposing has been tried and worked?
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
1. What you want is a fairytale that has never and can never exist. It would be nice, and I'd PERSONALLY pay what I could to help a poor student(s) afford more/better schooling, but that is not the same as imposing your equality on everyone. Gov't imposed equality=3rd rate for everyone.doodle wrote: Should all children have the freedom to the same quality education irrespective of their parents economic status?
Equality does not exist in nature--only in the minds of progressives.
2. "Universal healthcare, a base retirement pension, free education, and other social insurance programs, in a healthy balance with an otherwise free-market economy seem to do a pretty decent job."
What country/time period are you talking about?
Perhaps you could do it in e.g. scandanavia or another homogenous orderly country, or in the 1950s, but in the US now with Occupy Wall street mentality, where we are less civilized, less orderly?
3. "Didn't it work in the 1950s in the U.S.?"
Perhaps you are thinking along different lines than I, but we are a VERY different country from the 1950s, in some good and many not so good ways. What specifically were you thinking of that could be instituted today?
Last edited by Benko on Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It was good being the party of Robin Hood. Until they morphed into the Sheriff of Nottingham
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
I don't have the answers, but I think we'd be better of with a flatter (?more balanced?) income distribution:
* SS / Medicare assumed they tax x% of total income: we are below that because of the unequal growth of top income
* Some of the economic problems caused by lack of demand - lower incomes spend a higher percentage of their money than higher income
* SS / Medicare assumed they tax x% of total income: we are below that because of the unequal growth of top income
* Some of the economic problems caused by lack of demand - lower incomes spend a higher percentage of their money than higher income
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
Would you say that the U.S. today is less civilized today than it was in the 1950s?Benko wrote: Perhaps you could do it in e.g. scandanavia or another homogenous orderly country, or in the 1950s, but in the US now with Occupy Wall street mentality, where we are less civilized, less orderly?
In the 1950s in many parts of the country non-whites were required to use different bathrooms, attend different schools and not allowed to even enter many businesses. Efforts at political organization by groups of non-whites were often met with harassment, intimidation and violence. Consumer protection efforts like making cars safer were almost nonexistent, which contributed to countless deaths in auto accidents and other consumer goods-related incidents that happen far less frequently today.
One thing that has contributed to this perception that things are worse today than they have ever been is the 24 hour news cycle, along with the general sensationalism of a lot of news items. When, however, you look at things like actual crime rates, average longevity, infant mortality, and other measures we apply to developing countries, the U.S. is vastly better off than it was in the 1950s.
A person today who is gay, black, Hispanic, Asian, disabled or elderly would probably say that life in the 1950s in the U.S. was a LOT less civilized than it is today.
Although I am not arguing in favor of it, much higher tax rates for high income earners seems to have done little to stifle economic activity in the 1950s.3. "Didn't it work in the 1950s in the U.S.?"
Perhaps you are thinking along different lines than I, but we are a VERY different country from the 1950s, in some good and many not so good ways. What specifically were you thinking of that could be instituted today?
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
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Re: Wealth Distribution in America
1) Rights don't exist in nature either. It's kill or be killed. It's brutal. And liberals don't want 100% equality (most, anyway)... They want a more equal distribution than the massively skewed on we have, and a floor of human dignity guaranteed for all people.Benko wrote:1. What you want is a fairytale that has never and can never exist. It would be nice, and I'd PERSONALLY pay what I could to help a poor student(s) afford more/better schooling, but that is not the same as imposing your equality on everyone. Gov't imposed equality=3rd rate for everyone.doodle wrote: Should all children have the freedom to the same quality education irrespective of their parents economic status?
Equality does not exist in nature--only in the minds of progressives.
2. "Universal healthcare, a base retirement pension, free education, and other social insurance programs, in a healthy balance with an otherwise free-market economy seem to do a pretty decent job."
What country/time period are you talking about?
Perhaps you could do it in e.g. scandanavia or another homogenous orderly country, or in the 1950s, but in the US now with Occupy Wall street mentality, where we are less civilized, less orderly?
3. "Didn't it work in the 1950s in the U.S.?"
Perhaps you are thinking along different lines than I, but we are a VERY different country from the 1950s, in some good and many not so good ways. What specifically were you thinking of that could be instituted today?
2) More than just Scandinavia... The US is a pretty solid balance, though it doesn't have universal healthcare. Other European countries, some Asian countries as well have a pretty decent balance.
3) In what ways is our country different today than it was in 1950 that should warrant the .1% to own so much drastically more than the person who works 9-5 at McDonalds in comparison to the 1950's?
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."
- Thomas Paine
- Thomas Paine
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
MODA,
Gov't imposed equality=3rd rate for everyone.
Your floor of dignity becomes (see obamacare or universal healthcare) what is forcefed down everyone's throat, like the quallity or not.
NB: it is not safety net for those who need it and leave the rest of us the hell alone. There would be a lot less problem if this was all that was being advocated.moda0306 wrote: liberals don't want 100% equality (most, anyway)... They want a more equal distribution than the massively skewed on we have, and a floor of human dignity guaranteed for all people.
Gov't imposed equality=3rd rate for everyone.
Your floor of dignity becomes (see obamacare or universal healthcare) what is forcefed down everyone's throat, like the quallity or not.
I'm not defending the situation as it is. I just have 1000% confidence that any remedy the progressives have is 10 times worse than the problem. I think TennPaGa has pointed out a major problem which can be addressed:moda0306 wrote: In what ways is our country different today than it was in 1950 that should warrant the .1% to own so much...
Adressing this e.g. there is no such thing as too big to fail. You can't stop private people from trying to screw around with the Gov't to their benefit. One can (perhaps) e.g. term limits, remove the power so gov't isn't allowed to cause this kind of things.TennPaGa wrote: "natural" events that ought to have been disruptive (like the 2007/08 financial crisis) were not, because those at the far-far-right of the distribution convinced/bribed those in government that societal stability depended on them keeping theirs AND me losing mine.
It was good being the party of Robin Hood. Until they morphed into the Sheriff of Nottingham
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
I think it will be interesting to see how the current societal structure holds up with the rising inequality.
Democracy = one person, one vote
Capitalism- one dollar, one vote
As the upper echelon of the capitalist class get richer and richer the contradictions of living in democractic/capitalist society will grow stronger and stronger. Perhaps it will snap at one point and we will fall fully into one of the systems rather than our current mix.
Democracy = one person, one vote
Capitalism- one dollar, one vote
As the upper echelon of the capitalist class get richer and richer the contradictions of living in democractic/capitalist society will grow stronger and stronger. Perhaps it will snap at one point and we will fall fully into one of the systems rather than our current mix.
Last edited by melveyr on Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
everything comes from somewhere and everything goes somewhere
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
True, but on the other hand, democracy is all-or-nothing in the sense that if the guy you voted for doesn't win, it's as if you didn't even vote. With capitalism, by contrast, every dollar influences the market in some way through supply and demand.melveyr wrote: Democracy = one person, one vote
Capitalism- one dollar, one vote
Re: Wealth Distribution in America
That's a really interesting and insightful way of thinking about it.melveyr wrote: I think it will be interesting to see how the current societal structure holds up with the rising inequality.
Democracy = one person, one vote
Capitalism- one dollar, one vote
As the upper echelon of the capitalist class get richer and richer the contradictions of living in democractic/capitalist society will grow stronger and stronger. Perhaps it will snap at one point and we will fall fully into one of the systems rather than our current mix.
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
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Re: Wealth Distribution in America
Wealth distribution in the US means much less when the overall quality of life for just about everyone is markedly better than anytime in history, 1950s included (as MediumTex illustrates).
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As one of the hockey player's wives says in Slap Shot:
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Re: Wealth Distribution in America
That is a singularly disturbing video that assuming accuracy, has lots of potentially dangerous implications.
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