A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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Ad Orientem
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A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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The average man is judged by his appearance and his deportment in public. His dress, his bearing, his conduct toward women and his fellow-men, are telling characteristics.

In the street, when walking with a woman—the term "lady" being objectionable, except in case of distinction—every man should be on his mettle. Common sense, which is the basis of all etiquette, teaches him that he should be her protector. Therefore, under general circumstances, his place is on the street or outer side. Should there be a crowd on the inner side, should the walking be muddy or rough, or should there be a building in process of repair, or one or the other of the inconveniences of city life, then the man should take the side which will enable him to shield his fair companion from all annoyance. At night a man offers his arm to a woman. In the daytime etiquette allows this only when the sidewalk is very rough, when there are steps to climb, a crowd to be piloted through, or a street crossing to effect. In any one of these emergencies suggest, "I think you will find it better to take my arm." A man never walks bodkin—that is, sandwiched between two women.

It is the privilege of a woman to bow first. She may have reasons why she should not wish to continue an acquaintance, and a man should never take the initiative. Abroad, in many countries, the man bows first. When old friends meet, however, the bowing is simultaneous.

A man lifts his hat in acknowledgment of any salutation made to the woman with whom he is walking. It is his place, on such an occasion, to bow to a man friend, whether the latter enjoys or does not have the pleasure of the acquaintance of the woman. A man's failure to do this signifies that the woman does not wish to know him, or that her companion does not wish her to know the other man.

Hotel corridors and halls may be classed as semi-public places. A man meeting a woman in one of these, where by custom he is permitted to keep on his hat, must step aside and let her pass, raising his hat as he does so. This does not apply to theater corridors, theater or hotel lobbies, or offices. In such houses as the Waldorf in New York, where the hall is utilized as a general sitting room by both sexes, it is not good form for a man to keep on his hat. In London, however, the rule is not as strict.

Men in this country do not lift their hats to one another, except when they are introduced in the open or a public place. Civility is never wasted, and it is proper, as well as an act of reverence, to thus salute a clergyman or a venerable and distinguished gentleman.

A man always lifts his hat when offering a woman a service, such as picking up or restoring to her a dropped pocket handkerchief or other article, or when passing a fare in a public conveyance, or when rendering any trifling assistance. Should she be with a male escort, the latter should raise his hat and thank the person who has rendered the service. This bit of politeness is under no circumstances the prelude to an acquaintance with an unescorted woman, and no gentleman would take advantage of it. A man always raises his hat and remains uncovered when talking to a woman.

It is not good form to stop a woman on the street, even if the exchange of a few commonplace remarks be the excuse. A man never joins a woman on a thoroughfare unless she be one from whose friendship he is sure that he can claim this privilege.

A gentleman always assists a woman in and out of a carriage or a public conveyance. He opens the door of the vehicle for her, helps her in by a deft motion of the right arm, and with his left protects her skirts from any possible mud or dust on the wheel. As he leaves her he closes the door, and, if it be a private conveyance, gives directions to the driver. He lifts his hat in bidding her good-by. Even when there is a footman, a second man, or an attendant, it should be esteemed a favor to give this assistance.

In entering shops, theaters, or other buildings, where there are swinging doors, the escort goes ahead and holds one of them ajar, passing in last. A woman always precedes a man, except in one or two special cases. A man precedes a woman walking down the aisle of a theater, and it is better form that he should take the inside seat, especially if there is a man occupying the place next to the vacant one. A man precedes a woman up a narrow staircase in a public building, but in a private house, in ascending or descending a stairway, he should always allow the woman to precede him. In entering a theater box a man follows the usher, preceding the woman down the theater corridor to the door of the box. He then holds this open, and the women precede him, he following them. In a church, in going down a narrow aisle, the woman precedes the man.

The lift or elevator, as well as the corridors and lobbies of a public building, the office of a hotel, and the vestibule of a theater, are public highways. In these places a man keeps on his hat, his deportment being the same as he would observe in the street. But when the lift or elevator is fitted up as a drawing room, such as is used in hotels and other semi-public buildings, a man removes his hat when the other sex is of the number of its passengers.

When escorting a woman to a house where she is to make a visit, always mount the stoop or steps with her, ring the bell, and remain there until the servant comes to the door. Then, if you are not going in, take off your hat and leave her. Restaurants, the dining rooms of hotels, roof gardens, and places of amusement in the open air, where refreshments are served, are semi-public.

A man always rises from the table at which he is sitting when a woman bows to him and immediately returns the salutation. Should the place be in the open, he doffs his hat, which under such circumstances he is obliged to wear. When he is in a party and a lady and her escort chance to stop at his table to exchange greetings with his friends, he should rise and remain standing during the conversation. If a man is introduced to him, unattended by a woman, and he is with a stag party, politeness bids him also rise.

A gentleman will never be seen in public with characters whom he could not introduce to his mother or his sister. A man when he is with a lady should be very careful, especially at roof gardens and such places in midsummer, about recognizing male acquaintances who seem to be in rather doubtful company.
From here...
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/25950/25 ... 5950-h.htm
Last edited by Ad Orientem on Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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In those days, women did not behave the way many of them do today. They got married young and stayed married until the death of one of the partners, rather than running off to "find themselves". That is because they were dependent financially and socially on men, and needed to worry about becoming pregnant out of wedlock, which would result in disaster for them, both socially and economically.
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Re: A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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Women also did not have the right to vote, could be beaten with impunity by their husbands, and had a higher mortality rate than men, due to the consequences of old-tech childbirth.
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Re: A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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Yeah, most women I know don't exactly pine for those days. They prefer living in a society where it's normal and acceptable for them to be able to do things like go to college and work as something other than a teacher or secretary to men holding the door and tipping their hat.
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Re: A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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Pointedstick wrote: Yeah, most women I know don't exactly pine for those days. They prefer living in a society where it's normal and acceptable for them to be able to do things like go to college and work as something other than a teacher or secretary to men holding the door and tipping their hat.
Why should women object to having more options in society, including walking away from marriage if they get bored, and ending up with cash and prizes? It's mostly men who don't like that change.

But the long run effect of those changes is that men will figure out that marriage is not a good deal for them. In turn, that is likely to cause a lot of other changes that women probably won't like, such as most of them not having the option to get married and be supported by a man.
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Re: A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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Libertarian666 wrote: But the long run effect of those changes is that men will figure out that marriage is not a good deal for them. In turn, that is likely to cause a lot of other changes that women probably won't like, such as most of them not having the option to get married and be supported by a man.
Or they can marry a man (or not marry him) and support him. 

Actually, what usually  happened in those olden days: in exchange for financial support, women deferred their own hopes and dreams to support those of her husband.  It was sacrifice and support from both parties, but only one partner's support "counted"  in discussions about the household economy.
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Re: A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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Marriage in and before the 19th century was almost a business arrangement. One needs to remember that in those days people were born into a world with absolutely zero social safety welfare net. Because girls were more or less barred from almost all jobs until the very late Victorian period when some began to work in factories they had to worry about how they were going to live. This was especially true in Britain where the law of primogeniture meant that all or most of an estate would pass to the eldest son. Inheritance laws were a bit more democratic on this side of the Atlantic but even so it was a tough world for women. They basically had three choices for survival if they didn't come from a family with money. Marriage, domestic service and prostitution. In Catholic countries one might add the convent.

Men would be looking for a woman who could add to the family fortune through her marriage settlement (dowry) and or improve the husband's social standing by family connections. And of course they wanted a healthy wife with whom to sire heirs. Women would be chiefly looking for security.

Those who came from a well heeled background might have some room for romantic notions. But even there it was often limited by social constraints. In some places it was unlawful for a woman to marry, at any age, without the consent of her parents.

The social rule of thumb for the pre-World War I era was a place for everyone, and everyone in their place.
Last edited by Ad Orientem on Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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Of course nowadays, it's "a place for everyone, and everyone finds their own place." As that retirement video reminds us of, a lot of people really want their place to be shown to them. We all have that friend or relative who never seemed to get their life off the ground and lives a lonely, directionless life. Far be it for me to demean the incredibly freedom of opportunity we have available, but many don't want freedom of opportunity; they want reliability of outcome.
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Re: A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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smurff wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote: But the long run effect of those changes is that men will figure out that marriage is not a good deal for them. In turn, that is likely to cause a lot of other changes that women probably won't like, such as most of them not having the option to get married and be supported by a man.
Or they can marry a man (or not marry him) and support him. 

Actually, what usually  happened in those olden days: in exchange for financial support, women deferred their own hopes and dreams to support those of her husband.  It was sacrifice and support from both parties, but only one partner's support "counted"  in discussions about the household economy.
Unfortunately, relationships where women support men tend to have very poor outcomes, as do relationships where women rule the roost. Google "married man sex life" for a blog and discussion forum on this topic.
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Re: A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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Libertarian666 wrote: Unfortunately, relationships where women support men tend to have very poor outcomes, as do relationships where women rule the roost. Google "married man sex life" for a blog and discussion forum on this topic.
I'm curious to know what soured you on marriage and women so much.
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Re: A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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Pointedstick wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote: Unfortunately, relationships where women support men tend to have very poor outcomes, as do relationships where women rule the roost. Google "married man sex life" for a blog and discussion forum on this topic.
I'm curious to know what soured you on marriage and women so much.
My marriage is doing very well, actually, thanks to my becoming aware of the way relationships actually work.

To use an analogy: The PP is like the "red pill" from the Matrix to people who have bought into the mystique of active management and predicting the future. In a similar way, the evolutionary psychology perspective on relationships is the "red pill" of relationships to people who have bought into the modern notion of marriage and can't figure out why it isn't working for them.
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Re: A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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Libertarian666 wrote:
Pointedstick wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote: Unfortunately, relationships where women support men tend to have very poor outcomes, as do relationships where women rule the roost. Google "married man sex life" for a blog and discussion forum on this topic.
I'm curious to know what soured you on marriage and women so much.
My marriage is doing very well, actually, thanks to my becoming aware of the way relationships actually work.

To use an analogy: The PP is like the "red pill" from the Matrix to people who have bought into the mystique of active management and predicting the future. In a similar way, the evolutionary psychology perspective on relationships is the "red pill" of relationships to people who have bought into the modern notion of marriage and can't figure out why it isn't working for them.
That's really interesting to me, because (I could be wrong, but) I think I know where you're going with this and I think I've had a similar experience. My marriage is also strong and healthy due to not following either the feminist or sitcom models of marriage. Uh-oh, I have may have opened up a PC can of worms…
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Re: A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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Libertarian666 wrote: Unfortunately, relationships where women support men tend to have very poor outcomes, as do relationships where women rule the roost. Google "married man sex life" for a blog and discussion forum on this topic.
Let me guess.  Such women eventually develop no respect for men that are pussywhipped, henpecked or cuckolded?
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Re: A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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Pointedstick wrote: That's really interesting to me, because (I could be wrong, but) I think I know where you're going with this and I think I've had a similar experience. My marriage is also strong and healthy due to not following either the feminist or sitcom models of marriage. Uh-oh, I have may have opened up a PC can of worms…
I don't watch sitcoms but I'm curious to hear what the sitcom model is? 
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Re: A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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MachineGhost wrote: I don't watch sitcoms but I'm curious to hear what the sitcom model is?
Nor do I, but from what little exposure I've had, it seems to be where the man is a pathetic buffoon who's the butt of everyone else's jokes.
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Re: A Glimpse of a World Gone By

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MachineGhost wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote: Unfortunately, relationships where women support men tend to have very poor outcomes, as do relationships where women rule the roost. Google "married man sex life" for a blog and discussion forum on this topic.
Let me guess.  Such women eventually develop no respect for men that are pussywhipped, henpecked or cuckolded?
Good guess.
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