George Orwell's 1984

[MediumTex]

I read this in high school, but didn't get much out of it.  I watched the movie a few years later and found it entertaining and disturbing, but didn't find it especially profound.

For the last few months I have been re-reading 1984 in small bits (usually over lunch) and I am now seeing how Orwell's ideas and execution of them were just amazing.

His understanding of human nature (and its innate craving for freedom when oppressed) and the tendency of governments to stand in opposition to certain elements of human nature were quite insightful.

I find the overall structure of the book to be excellent (and terrifying), but the book also has countless one-liners that are so insightful and utterly true that I feel like I am being repeatedly shocked by a bit of static electricity as I read.  It's hair raising like that.

Here are just a few:

"The Parsons' flat was bigger than Winston's, and dingy in a different way.  Everything had a battered, trampled-on look, as though the place had just been visited by some large violent animal."

***

"Parsons was Winston's fellow employee at the Ministry of Truth.  He was a fattish but active man of paralyzing stupidity, a mass of imbecile enthusiasms, one of those completely unquestioning, devoted drudges on whom, even more than on the Thought Police, the stability of the Party depended."

***

"Because of the angle at which [the man] was sitting, his spectacles caught the light and presented to Winston two blank discs instead of eyes....As he watched the eyeless face with the jaw moving rapidly up and down, Winston had a curious feeling that this was not a real human being but some kind of dummy.  It was not the man's brain that was speaking, it was his larynx.  The stuff that was coming out of him consisted of words, but it was not speech in the true sense: it was a noise uttered in unconsciousness, like the quacking of a duck."

***

I find that sometimes to recognize wisdom one must be exposed to its opposite.  For example, I see the wisdom of the PP when I watch CNBC.  Similarly, I find that reading 1984 makes the current world seem merely misguided and foolish when compared to Orwell's 1984 vision of the future as "a boot stomping on a human face--forever." 

Having a conceptual anchor point that is outside of mainstream thinking, popular culture and currently dominant institutions provides a good lens through which to see wisdom.  Part of what appeals to me about Harry Browne is his thinking seems almost timeless in its assumptions about the basic need for freedom as a prerequisite for the realization of an individual's potential.  I think that Orwell's ideas were similarly timeless about the tendency for any government to drift toward tyranny and the ways in which the human spirit struggles against this process.

[Pkg Man]

I too read 1984 in High School, in 1984 actually.  I found it quite powerful and of course, disturbing.

Another book I read at about the same time and enjoyed (if that is an appropriate word for a book like this) perhaps more, was Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley.  It has been so long since I've read either one I have forgotten much of the details.  Might be time to pick them up again.

[MediumTex]

For anyone who has Netflix, George Lucas's classic "THX 1138" is available for streaming.

It's another take on the theme of a dystopian future.

I recently watched it for the first time and really liked it.  In the future, everyone is heavily medicated on cocktails of anti-depressants, stimulants and depressants (sound familiar?).  If you feel your drug mix isn't working properly, there is a camera in your medicine cabinet and you can report your need for a dose modification.

There is a lot of other clever and subtle stuff in the movie.  The chrome faced police were obviously an inspiration for the bad guy in Terminator 2.

[Coffee]

I thought 1984 was over-rated, in comparison to Animal Farm.

Brave New World: a classic. 

For some reason, I think you need to lump Kubrick's "A Clockwork Orange" in with these.  And don't forget Rod Serling, who despite working in television, had some really insightful episodes of The Twilight Zone that dealt with the role of Govt. vs. the Individual.

[doug6zj9]

I have been saying lately that 1984, Animal Farm, and other thoughtful and thought provoking classics are wasted on middle-schoolers and high-schoolers; at least those of today.  They were wasted on me at that age, and I have observed that they were wasted on my 3 children.  Kids that age just do not have the depth of experience or the reflectiveness to pick up the subtleties that the authors are framing.  They read it as fiction and do not draw the corollary to real-life.

I just read Atlas Shrugged and had the same experience as MT.  I recommend it to all.  It is amazing the these messages are as timely today as they were 50-60-70 years ago.  Human nature really does not change.  We collectively have not learned a thing or advanced a bit in the realm of the "social sciences".

[Storm]

Atlas Shrugged is an entertaining book, however, it is best seen as just that, entertainment.  Ayn Rand uses great storytelling to push a hard core libertarian agenda.  The problem with her world view is that everything is painted in black and white, moochers vs. heroes, and the real world cannot easily be categorized in that way.

[MediumTex]

IMHO, Ayn Rand had a lot of important things to say, but as I have grown older I find her execution a bit cartoonish.

When I was younger, I loved Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead.  Picking them up later, however, I found Rand's world a bit naive, though its idealism is admirable.

The Fountainhead, in particular, was very influential on HB when he was a young man.  He mentioned it several times in his late 1960s audio program.

[6 Iron]

Another vote for Animal Farm. A better allegory for the transition from utopian socialism to tyranny has never been written, and in a story that is easily understood by early teens. Wishing this was on more reading lists in schools today.

[Tortoise]

I have been saying lately that 1984, Animal Farm, and other thoughtful and thought provoking classics are wasted on middle-schoolers and high-schoolers; at least those of today.  They were wasted on me at that age, and I have observed that they were wasted on my 3 children.  Kids that age just do not have the depth of experience or the reflectiveness to pick up the subtleties that the authors are framing.  They read it as fiction and do not draw the corollary to real-life.

Absolutely.  That was the case with nearly every decent book I read in middle school and high school.  I "knew" that 1984 was full of profound truths about government and human nature, and I "knew" that (for example) Walden was full of deep philosophical thoughts about individualism and transcendentalism.  I "knew" it because my teachers told me.  But I was just too young and inexperienced to really connect with the material on that level.  I experienced 1984 mostly as a cool fiction novel and Walden mostly as an incredibly boring book without a storyline.  Now, years later, 1984 and Walden are two of my all-time favorite books.  Both of them are absolutely genius and changed the way I experience life.

[Lone Wolf]

Thanks, I should re-read all of these.  I doubt that I got full value out of anything that I read before paying taxes, "working for a living" and following the news.

I read "Atlas Shrugged" for the first time not quite two years ago, in the aftermath of the financial crisis.  I had the same experience as Doug.  I found it superb and I've never looked at the world the same way since.

The time period I was living in created an incredible backdrop for the story.  With the government bailing everybody out, taking over more and more private industry, and establishing a parade of creepy "czar" positions, the book was uncomfortably timely.  Amazingly so, in fact.

It's funny, but if I had read the book perhaps ten years earlier, I might have found the characters overwrought and the focus on "gold as money" to be absolutely quaint.  But with politicians of mid-2009 coming close to quoting the looters in the book verbatim, I had a very different view.

[MediumTex]

I experienced 1984 mostly as a cool fiction novel and Walden mostly as an incredibly boring book without a storyline.  Now, years later, 1984 and Walden are two of my all-time favorite books.  Both of them are absolutely genius and changed the way I experience life.

Since you brought up Walden I want to simply offer my complete agreement that it is another insightful piece of literature.  It is one of those few books that I never tire of reading. The fact that it is available free online is just another great benefit of the internet

[Coffee]

I bet there is a high correlation between people who are drawn to the PP, and those who believe in self sufficiency and preparedness?

[MediumTex]

I bet there is a high correlation between people who are drawn to the PP, and those who believe in self sufficiency and preparedness?

I would imagine there is an independent streak in most PP investors.

Since I was a kid I have always invited anyone who wanted my respect to earn it.  This has served me pretty well, though there were some elementary school teachers who struggled to get with the program.

Seriously, though, when one comes to terms with his/her individuality, I think it can provide the basis for meaningful cooperation with others.  It's what HB called "mutually profitable exchanges".

[Lone Wolf]

Seriously, though, when one comes to terms with his/her individuality, I think it can provide the basis for meaningful cooperation with others.  It's what HB called "mutually profitable exchanges".

Just so.  It's a great insight.  This first clicked for me when Ayn Rand described it as living life as a "trader".  Speaking of which, has anyone read Harry Browne's book on selling?  This, too, is on my list of things that I badly need to make time to read.

Anyhow,this thread is awesome.  My reading list is expanding rapidly.

[MediumTex]

Speaking of which, has anyone read Harry Browne's book on selling?  This, too, is on my list of things that I badly need to make time to read.

Yes, and it's terrific.  He talks about selling as a value discovery process for people on both sides of a transaction, rather than some kind of game of manipulation.

[craigr]

Speaking of which, has anyone read Harry Browne's book on selling?  This, too, is on my list of things that I badly need to make time to read.

Yes, and it's terrific.  He talks about selling as a value discovery process for people on both sides of a transaction, rather than some kind of game of manipulation.

And that's what good selling is. I was told once that "A good deal is when both sides are happy." That's what selling is all about. Giving a customer what they want and getting what you want in exchange.

[brick-house]

Quote from: Lone Wolf on November 17, 2010, 03:33:31 AM
Speaking of which, has anyone read Harry Browne's book on selling?  This, too, is on my list of things that I badly need to make time to read.

This book was my first introduction to Harry Browne.  I took a "promotion" that involved sales.  The book boiled down the sales process in simple terms:  Find out what people want and help them get it.  This book helped me avoid the Herb Tarlic route and also led me to Fail Safe Investing.

Harry Browne had a clear and concise style. No need to waste words and your reader's time when you have got the goods.   

Harry Browne also wrote some interesting articles about current events.  The four article series titled, "When will we learn" - written on 9/12/01 had a strong take on the events of 9/11 and what the U.S. reaction would be.  

[MediumTex]

Harry Browne also wrote some interesting articles about current events.  The four article series titled, "When will we learn" - written on 9/12/01 had a strong take on the events of 9/11 and what the U.S. reaction would be.  

brick-house, I always appreciate your comments over on the BH board.  You, too, have a concise and insightful style of writing.

HB's series of articles after 9/11 are, in retrospect, dead on.  In the midst of great national sorrow and emotion, he saw through to the essence of the problem and the way people don't seem to understand that terrorism is the obvious and predictable result of an activist and ideological foreign policy. 

[Storm]

Does anyone have a link to those articles written on 9/12/01 by HB?

[brick-house]

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24444

quote from HB When Will We Learn

Losing our last freedoms

And now, as sure as night follows day, we will be told we must give up more of our freedoms to avenge what never should have happened in the first place.

When will we learn that it makes no sense to give up our freedoms in the name of freedom?

Happy Thanksgiving.  Football, Turkey, and Beer.  Loving life today - What a country! 

[Austen Heller]

I recently picked up 1984 from my local library.....mind-blowing!  I had heard about this book all my life, and I'm glad I finally got around to reading it.  I'm 2/3 of the way done, but so far, it is highly recommended.  I may even have to buy a copy to add to my permanent collection, which is saying something considering I only own about 20 books.  Next up on my list...Animal Farm.  I already read the Ayn Rand tomes, which were great as well.  I find the classics to be a much better use of my time than most of the modern stuff (with the exception being Jared Diamond's non-fiction works, which are great).

[MediumTex]

I recently picked up 1984 from my local library.....mind-blowing!  I had heard about this book all my life, and I'm glad I finally got around to reading it.  I'm 2/3 of the way done, but so far, it is highly recommended.  I may even have to buy a copy to add to my permanent collection, which is saying something considering I only own about 20 books.  Next up on my list...Animal Farm.  I already read the Ayn Rand tomes, which were great as well.  I find the classics to be a much better use of my time than most of the modern stuff (with the exception being Jared Diamond's non-fiction works, which are great).

I get the chills every time I think about 1984.

Orwell had such great insight into just how cruel people could be to each other, and just how creative they could be in harnessing the state to deliver cruelty with greater efficiency, even while assuring the citizenry that the purpose of the state was to provide them with security and love.

[AdamA]

For anyone who has Netflix, George Lucas's classic "THX 1138" is available for streaming.

It's another take on the theme of a dystopian future.

This episode of the Black Mirror (which is a fantastic show) is a very entertaining and unique imagining of a dystopian future kind of like what you describe (although not exactly the same). 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zYPbZNTbnko

It's an hour long.  You can stream it on Netflix too along with the other five episodes (all of which are similar and fantastic, except maybe the first one). 

Watch the first five minutes and you'll be hooked. 

[Benko]

Brave New World is a good book and worth reading, but the first half is very difficult to get through because of when it was written/published (1932).

This Perfect Day by Ira Levin is a very good book and similar, but a much easier read. 

[AdamA]

Brave New World is a good book and worth reading, but the first half is very difficult to get through because of when it was written/published (1932).

This Perfect Day by Ira Levin is a very good book and similar, but a much easier read.

Super Sad True Love Story by Gary Shteyngart is another really good dystopian book.  Orwellian themed.