The Saturn Hexagon Mystery

[Tortoise]

I'm going out on a limb by posting this topic, but since we've already discussed various fringe topics like the mystery of the Pyramids at Giza, I'll go ahead and do it.

I'm not sure how many of you are aware of this, but a giant vortex in the shape of a well-defined hexagon has existed at Saturn's north pole since at least the early 1980s when it was first imaged by NASA's Voyager probe:



It rotates with a period of about 10 hours and 39 minutes, the same period as the planet's radio emissions. The assumption is that it's the rotation period of Saturn's interior, although I don't think that's been proven yet. The hexagon does not shift in longitude like the other visible clouds in Saturn's atmosphere. (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn#Nor ... ud_pattern)

This phenomenon is fascinating in and of itself, but the main reason I mention it is because I recently learned that the hexagram symbol has historically been associated with the planet Saturn since ancient times. Also, the religion of Judaism has also long been associated somewhat with the planet Saturn. (Hence the fact that Saturday--"Saturn-day"--is the Jewish day of worship.) And it just so happens that the symbol most closely associated with Judaism is the hexagram, specifically the Star of David.

Anyhow, I was just curious as to whether any of you knew about this or had any thoughts about it. Personally, I'm a little weirded out by the whole thing.

[MediumTex]

We live in a mysterious world.

In those odd moments when you can shake free of the "habitual way of consciousness" you can see amazing things all around you, many of them closer than Saturn.

What is interesting to me is that as precise as we can be with language, words really falls short in most attempts to describe certain states of consciousness that are outside of our normal routines.  Normally when people try to describe such things they just sound incoherent or half-crazy.

Even after a person has had such an experience himself, once he returns to his normal thought patterns he often has trouble even describing the experience to himself.  It's a funny thing.

It's not surprising that the mystical aspect of religion is so appealing to many people because a socially acceptable supernaturally-oriented belief system at least provides a framework for talking about and conceptualizing things that we don't fully understand.

Joseph Campbell had many interesting things to say about this need for an outlet of expression for these deep urges we feel to describe our otherwise irrational experiences.

[Benko]

As MT says, the world is a wonderful and mysterious place and it is almost certainly some natural phenomena.  I'm much more concerned about the aliens running our country (aliens being a generic term for turkeys in both parties) than that the phenomena is something other than natural.

What is interesting to me is that as precise as we can be with language, words really falls short in most attempts to describe certain states of consciousness that are outside of our normal routines.

Off topic to this thread, but relevant to other threads on spirituality, the mind can understand e.g. how to do your taxes, or how to send a man to the moon, etc., but it cannot understand anything really important which is why there is a teaching of non-duality and why much spiritual info talks in terms of paradoxes or not this and not that, and why spiritual growth happens as letting go of what is not true. 

[Tortoise]

As MT says, the world is a wonderful and mysterious place and it is almost certainly some natural phenomena.  I'm much more concerned about the aliens running our country (aliens being a generic term for turkeys in both parties) than that the phenomena is something other than natural.

I'm fairly sure it's a natural phenomenon, too, but to me that doesn't make it any less weird or less fascinating. "Natural" is really a tautological term, because one could argue that everything in this universe--including human beings and everything we do and create--is "natural" by definition.

Hell, if the evolution of life from chemical soup to RNA/DNA to single-celled organisms to self-aware human beings is considered a "natural" process, then the fact that something is "natural" doesn't necessarily diminish my sense of profound wonder.

So one obvious question here is this: Why has Saturn been associated with the symbol of the hexagram since ancient times if people didn't have the ability to observe Saturn's hexagonal vortex with deep-space probes until relatively recently? This actually potentially points back to our prior discussion regarding Graham Hancock's Fingerprints of the Gods, wherein he presents archaeological evidence that there may have been an advanced civilization in the far distant past that built the huge megalithic structures around the world--such as the Giza Necropolis, the Mayan pyramids, and Machu Picchu--and passed down advanced astronomical knowledge.

We're not talking about aliens here. We're talking about the possibility of an advanced human civilization that existed long before conventional archaeology tells us civilization supposedly began.

[Gosso]

Tortoise,

First off, I love these threads!  I had no idea there was a bizarre hexagon at the north pole of Saturn.

Do you give an credence to the possibility of the planets containing a sort of advanced consciousness?  Maybe the hexagonal symbol was presented through a dream or vision and then incorporated into religions and other symbolism.  Saturn is trying to get our attention.

Sidebar: I kinda like the theory that the Earth has gently guided the evolution of life.  Seems rather strange that we are merely the result of only random mutations and natural selection.

An ancient civilization could be possible, but I still want to find some bones with carbon dating to back it up.  Unless the Earth was previous inhabited by intelligent beings that wouldn't leave much of a trace (other than the pyramids and whatnot).

[MediumTex]

An ancient civilization could be possible, but I still want to find some bones with carbon dating to back it up.  Unless the Earth was previous inhabited by intelligent beings that wouldn't leave much of a trace (other than the pyramids and whatnot).

Maybe it was an ancient Bigfoot-type species.

I say that because even today the Bigfoot species leaves no bones.

[Gosso]

An ancient civilization could be possible, but I still want to find some bones with carbon dating to back it up.  Unless the Earth was previous inhabited by intelligent beings that wouldn't leave much of a trace (other than the pyramids and whatnot).

Maybe it was an ancient Bigfoot-type species.

I say that because even today the Bigfoot species leaves no bones.

Hmmm, Les Stroud (aka Survivorman) believes it (1:52):

http://youtu.be/7y5aO5XdgT0

You never know.

[whatchamacallit]

Geometric whirlpools revealed

http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060515/ ... 15-17.html

[Gumby]

An ancient civilization could be possible, but I still want to find some bones with carbon dating to back it up.  Unless the Earth was previous inhabited by intelligent beings that wouldn't leave much of a trace (other than the pyramids and whatnot).

The last time we had this conversation about an advanced ancient civilization without any trace of evidence, someone mentioned that one theory is that the evidence is buried at the bottom of the ocean. It sounds a bit far fetched until you consider the following...

- 70% of the surface of the Earth is water-covered
- Only 10% of the ocean has been mapped.
- The ocean is deeper than most people can fathom.

...See this scale image for a great perspective: http://blog.wsd.net/jreeve/files/2012/0 ... trench.jpg

[Gumby]

Also, the religion of Judaism has also long been associated somewhat with the planet Saturn. (Hence the fact that Saturday--"Saturn-day"--is the Jewish day of worship.) And it just so happens that the symbol most closely associated with Judaism is the hexagram, specifically the Star of David.

And it just so happens that Saturn is the sixth planet from the sun!

That hexagonal eye wall is insane. One video on YouTube mentions a cloud formation that runs continuously around the interior of the hexagon eye wall like a freight train.

As far as the ancient usage of Hexagons go, the origin of its use is unknown. Yet, various religions all around the world have independently adopted the hexagram at one time or another and nobody knows why...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagram

(Take a look at some of the archeological examples of hexagrams on that Wikipedia page. Some of the older hexagrams include swirly/stormy imagery around the outside. And one even has the curvy bend to the sides exhibited by Saturn's eye wall).

Freaky.

[Gumby]

Uh, guys... You gotta watch this:

http://youtu.be/ZI2BxAq8jY8

Coincidence?

[Tortoise]

Do you give an credence to the possibility of the planets containing a sort of advanced consciousness?  Maybe the hexagonal symbol was presented through a dream or vision and then incorporated into religions and other symbolism.  Saturn is trying to get our attention.

That's entirely possible! But who knows. I just think it's fascinating how the planets are so closely associated with our ancient myths and pantheons. Even the days of the week are named after the planets/deities:

Sunday (Domingo): Sun's day / God's day
Monday (Lunes): Moon's day
Tuesday (Martes): Tiu's day (Germanic) / Mars's day (Roman)
Wednesday (Miercoles): Woden's day (Germanic) / Mercury's day (Roman)
Thursday (Jueves): Thor's day (Germanic) / Jupiter's day (Roman)
Friday (Viernes): Freya's or Frigg's day (Germanic) / Venus's day (Roman)
Saturday (Sabado): Saturn's day (Roman)

Some people don't think much of this close relationship between our ancient gods and the planets. They just say, "Well of course people back then were interested in celestial objects. It's natural that, lacking modern science, they would have looked at them with a sense of supernatural awe and worshipped them." End of story--or so they say.

But I think the real story goes a little deeper than that. As the ancient hermetic doctrine says, "As above, so below." In other words, in a very real sense, the mind of man reflects the cosmos and the cosmos reflects the mind of man. If that notion is true, it might explain why so many civilizations and cultures across the globe have had eerily similar myths over the ages: they have been reflecting the same cosmos in slightly different ways, like a single beam of white light scattered into different colors when passing through a prism.

Yes, the legends of the gods are reflections of our own inner symbols and archetypes. But I think those symbols and archetypes may also be closely related to the evolution and movements of key celestial objects. That is the thesis of an interesting book from 1969 I'm currently reading called Hamlet's Mill by Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha von Dechend.

An ancient civilization could be possible, but I still want to find some bones with carbon dating to back it up.  Unless the Earth was previous inhabited by intelligent beings that wouldn't leave much of a trace (other than the pyramids and whatnot).

Maybe when the next cataclysmic crustal displacement occurs and the 2-mile-thick ice cover over Antarctica melts away as the continent is yanked north, those remains will be uncovered

I'm really not sure what traces would be left behind by a civilization from over 10,000 years ago. The bones and other evidence may be out there somewhere--but it would most likely be buried really deeply. And who knows where to start digging? Archaeologists still periodically dig up new finds at sites we've known about for centuries--Giza, etc. Think about how many other mind-blowing archaeological wonders are still out there, underground, because nobody in the world even knows they exist, let alone where to start digging for them?

[Tortoise]

And it just so happens that Saturn is the sixth planet from the sun!

Good point! So the plot thickens.

Uh, guys... You gotta watch this:

http://youtu.be/ZI2BxAq8jY8

Coincidence?

Interesting... in part 2 of that video, they show how the hexagram has been historically associated with beer brewing and malting. Coincidentally, the word saturnalia (based on the name of the ancient Roman festival of Saturn) refers to a "time of merrymaking for all" or a "period of unrestrained revelry." In other words, heavy alcohol consumption Yet another example of hexagrams being associated with Saturn!

[Gosso]

But I think the real story goes a little deeper than that. As the ancient hermetic doctrine says, "As above, so below." In other words, in a very real sense, the mind of man reflects the cosmos and the cosmos reflects the mind of man. If that notion is true, it might explain why so many civilizations and cultures across the globe have had eerily similar myths over the ages: they have been reflecting the same cosmos in slightly different ways, like a single beam of white light scattered into different colors when passing through a prism.

My line of thinking is somewhat similar, although I place less importance on the actual celestial bodies and focus more on the personal unconscious.  It seems entirely possible the cosmos could play a role in tinkering with our unconscious, which then attempts to shape the conscious mind through dreams and other influences.  Given how little we know about the unconscious, anything is possible...which is what makes it so fun to think about!  Why do we dream?  What creates the story line?  Are dreams really just a data dump of useless memories?  Why is it so important that we dream -- you would think evolution would have selected species that didn't require to be semi-comatose for 8 hours a day!

[Benko]

it might explain why so many civilizations and cultures across the globe have had eerily similar myths over the ages:

You might check out Carl Jung and the COLLECTIVE unconscious for more thoughts on this.

[Tortoise]

it might explain why so many civilizations and cultures across the globe have had eerily similar myths over the ages:

You might check out Carl Jung and the COLLECTIVE unconscious for more thoughts on this.

Yes, definitely. I've read some of Jung's work. He was heavily influenced by the occult, so his theory of the collective unconscious resonates somewhat with the hermetic theme "As above, so below."

If Jung had lived long enough to witness NASA's first images of Saturn's hexagonal vortex at its north pole, I wonder what he would have thought of it. I'm thinking he would have seen it as a striking example of what he called synchronicity, given the ancient association between Saturn and the hexagram.

[Gosso]

it might explain why so many civilizations and cultures across the globe have had eerily similar myths over the ages:

You might check out Carl Jung and the COLLECTIVE unconscious for more thoughts on this.

Ha! I'm currently reading Memories, Dreams, Reflections.

[dualstow]

This phenomenon is fascinating in and of itself, but the main reason I mention it is because I recently learned that the hexagram symbol has historically been associated with the planet Saturn since ancient times. Also, the religion of Judaism has also long been associated somewhat with the planet Saturn. (Hence the fact that Saturday--"Saturn-day"--is the Jewish day of worship.) And it just so happens that the symbol most closely associated with Judaism is the hexagram, specifically the Star of David.

Anyhow, I was just curious as to whether any of you knew about this or had any thoughts about it. Personally, I'm a little weirded out by the whole thing.

Saturday is just the day of rest in Judaism, and that rest actually has nothing to do with Saturn or the Roman (Latin) word 'Saturn.'

---
p.s. I like that Pac Man moon that Cassini just discovered.

[Tortoise]

This phenomenon is fascinating in and of itself, but the main reason I mention it is because I recently learned that the hexagram symbol has historically been associated with the planet Saturn since ancient times. Also, the religion of Judaism has also long been associated somewhat with the planet Saturn. (Hence the fact that Saturday--"Saturn-day"--is the Jewish day of worship.) And it just so happens that the symbol most closely associated with Judaism is the hexagram, specifically the Star of David.

Anyhow, I was just curious as to whether any of you knew about this or had any thoughts about it. Personally, I'm a little weirded out by the whole thing.

Saturday is just the day of rest in Judaism, and that rest actually has nothing to do with Saturn or the Roman (Latin) word 'Saturn.'

That's incorrect. Etymologically, the word "Saturday" is known to be derived directly from the name of the planet Saturn:

Saturday
O.E. Sæterdæg, Sæternesdæg, lit. "day of the planet Saturn," from Sæternes (gen. of Sætern; see Saturn) + O.E. dæg "day." Partial loan-translation of L. Saturni dies "Saturn's day" (cf. Du. zaterdag, O.Fris. saterdi, M.L.G. satersdach; Ir. dia Sathuirn, Welsh dydd Sadwrn). The Latin word is itself a loan-translation of Gk. kronou hemera, lit. "the day of Cronus."

Source: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Saturday

[dualstow]

Oh, "Saturn" and "Saturday" are etymologically linked, no doubt. I only meant to say that Saturn has nothing to do with the day of rest in Judaism, so the hexagon/Star of David connection is meaningless.

I love etymonline, btw. I've been using it for years and occasionally write to the site author for clarifications. He actually writes back!

[Tortoise]

I love etymonline, btw. I've been using it for years and occasionally write to the site author for clarifications. He actually writes back!

Ah, a fellow dabbler in etymology! There aren't many of us around, which I'm sure is why the site author of www.etymonline.com has the time to answer your questions

Oh, "Saturn" and "Saturday" are etymologically linked, no doubt. I only meant to say that Saturn has nothing to do with the day of rest in Judaism, so the hexagon/Star of David connection is meaningless.

How do we know? Where can we verify that?

If there is no meaningful connection between Saturn and Judaism, then why was Saturday--of all the seven days of the week--chosen as the Jewish day of worship?

I suppose you might argue that Saturday was chosen arbitrarily, and I acknowledge that that is a possibility. But I'm digging deeper than that. I want more than just speculation; I want evidence.

Keep in mind that Christianity--often associated with the sun--has its day of worship on Sunday, and Islam--often associated with Venus--has its day of worship on Friday (Venus's day). So it's not like the proposed association between Judaism and Saturn based on the Jewish day of worship is without precedent.

[dualstow]

I love etymonline, btw. I've been using it for years and occasionally write to the site author for clarifications. He actually writes back!

Ah, a fellow dabbler in etymology! There aren't many of us around, which I'm sure is why the site author of www.etymonline.com has the time to answer your questions

LOL, maybe.    I think a lot of English speakers are into it, but I have to know the background of every word I come across.

Oh, "Saturn" and "Saturday" are etymologically linked, no doubt. I only meant to say that Saturn has nothing to do with the day of rest in Judaism, so the hexagon/Star of David connection is meaningless.

How do we know? Where can we verify that?

If there is no meaningful connection between Saturn and Judaism, then why was Saturday--of all the seven days of the week--chosen as the Jewish day of worship?

I suppose you might argue that Saturday was chosen arbitrarily, and I acknowledge that that is a possibility. But I'm digging deeper than that. I want more than just speculation; I want evidence.
...

There's nothing harder than proving a *lack* of connection, proving that something is just a coincidence or that it was arbitrarily chosen. For starters, it's less interesting.  But, yeah, there are seven days in a week and with all the religions and cultures in the world, some are bound to have a special day (1 in 7 chance) that falls on Saturn's Day. Some in Judaism believe it actually starts on Friday night, so now it's a 2-in-7 chance if you start with the hexagram/Star of David link and connect the dots from there.