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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:33 pm
by dualstow
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:01 pm
I'm on that D too. Probably don't have enough to support Mark's level of abuse, but I need to get more anyways. I like the chewable grape-flavored ones.
I have dissolvable watermelon ones, if only because everything else was over 600 IU.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:35 pm
by Kriegsspiel
Not everyone can handle the D.

EDIT but also, goddamn dinosaur vitamins are great.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:42 pm
by Smith1776
MangoMan wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:39 am
Yep, my doctor told me to take 2000 IU / day after my blood levels at a winter physical were on the low side. The further south you live (as long as you are outside a fair amount) the less you need to supplement.
My doctor told me that literally almost everyone who lives in Canada is vitamin D deficient. In her opinion, basically every Canadian citizen should be supplementing.

The Vitamin D deficiency problem is so ubiquitous here that the blood test for it is no longer covered by our health care system. You have to pay out of pocket for it. It was $65 for me. :P

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:47 pm
by Kriegsspiel
I don't understand why you guys aren't eating seal livers or penguin blubber some weird local delicacy has vit D in it. Whatever you have stored in your igloos.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:57 pm
by Smith1776
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:47 pm
I don't understand why you guys aren't eating seal livers or penguin blubber some weird local delicacy has vit D in it. Whatever you have stored in your igloos.
We only have moose and beaver meat in my region.

It's just not enough.

Image

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:59 pm
by Kriegsspiel
Some beaver is full of D.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:00 pm
by Smith1776
Wait, we're still talking about fetishes right?

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:16 pm
by dualstow
But you guys have all that salmon.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:16 am
by vnatale
Can Brain Supplements Really Help You Think and Perform Better? A Neuroscientist Weighs In


Physician and neuroscientist Dr. Tara Swart gives a reality check on the supplements that are worth taking--and the ones that aren't worth the hype

https://www.inc.com/graham-winfrey/supp ... id=sf01001

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:09 pm
by Mark Leavy
vnatale wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:16 am
Can Brain Supplements Really Help You Think and Perform Better? A Neuroscientist Weighs In


Physician and neuroscientist Dr. Tara Swart gives a reality check on the supplements that are worth taking--and the ones that aren't worth the hype

https://www.inc.com/graham-winfrey/supp ... id=sf01001
Everything on that list, except possibly coconut oil and MCT (as an accidental side effect) are pretty much bullshit. And if you take enough of those to make a difference you won't be venturing far from a restroom. Here's what does work: Get your blood ketones up to around 3 or 4 mmol/liter. Or you could just be naturally crazy smart like most of the [not me] posters on this forum.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:17 pm
by Mark Leavy
MangoMan wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:58 pm
I thought there was more data in favor of the fish oil (omega-3) than on coconut oil, which is sketchy at best.
I don't have anything that can back me up. But, I don't believe that there is much (if any) direct nootropic benefit from either one if ingested in realistic quantities. At least that is my opinion after personally experimenting with both. The coconut oil has a large MCT component which converts to ketones pretty rapidly, so there could be some effect there, but as I mentioned that is a rough way to up your ketones. Not recommended in quantity. Likewise you can't take Omega 3's in any significant quantity (as a percentage of your daily calories). That much PUFA would do way more damage than good.

From a practical standpoint, any nootropic benefit from a dietary supplement would be measured at the noise level if you haven't already reduced carbohydrates and alcohol to a very small fraction of your energy intake. Most people report significant reduction in brain fog and increased focus after a few months of making that step. It would be like a smoker asking about workouts and nutrition to get in shape. Yes, there are some great things you can do, but first quit smoking. Unfortunately, that kind of dietary change can be extremely difficult and/or undesirable for a large part of the population.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:14 pm
by vnatale
Mark Leavy wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:17 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:58 pm
I thought there was more data in favor of the fish oil (omega-3) than on coconut oil, which is sketchy at best.
I don't have anything that can back me up. But, I don't believe that there is much (if any) direct nootropic benefit from either one if ingested in realistic quantities. At least that is my opinion after personally experimenting with both. The coconut oil has a large MCT component which converts to ketones pretty rapidly, so there could be some effect there, but as I mentioned that is a rough way to up your ketones. Not recommended in quantity. Likewise you can't take Omega 3's in any significant quantity (as a percentage of your daily calories). That much PUFA would do way more damage than good.

From a practical standpoint, any nootropic benefit from a dietary supplement would be measured at the noise level if you haven't already reduced carbohydrates and alcohol to a very small fraction of your energy intake. Most people report significant reduction in brain fog and increased focus after a few months of making that step. It would be like a smoker asking about workouts and nutrition to get in shape. Yes, there are some great things you can do, but first quit smoking. Unfortunately, that kind of dietary change can be extremely difficult and/or undesirable for a large part of the population.
I have down the alcohol part. Zero. But it seems my diet is highly carbohydrate. However, they are all of the complex variety. No simple. Do you make any differentiation between those two categories?

I don't have brain fog and good focus.

In the last few years I've noticed something quite the opposite effect than I'd have expected with advancing age.

I've been in the same position for over 10 years and doing a lot of accounting work in it.

In accounting many of the tasks are super repetitive. Could be you do them annually, quarterly, monthly, weekly, or, even daily.

Therefore in that time span I've performed many of the same tasks over and over and over.

Of course many of them are not brain stimulating at all to do so I want to complete them using as little time as possible.

What's been happening in the past few years is that for many of these tasks that I've done for years and years I'm all of a sudden getting these flash insights into doing them faster, a different way, less steps. Basically taking less time to accomplish the mission or producing a better end result or both. Or, finally coming up with solutions to certain problems that that eluded me in the past.

This, of course, is something I've always done all the time - perform a task better. But the last few years have been without parallel for the depth and the number of these insights I've having. Far more than in any prior years.

Opposite of what you'd expect in that at this age even though I'd done these things so many times sometimes I'd think that I'd start to get fuzzy on some of the steps.

The only brain diminution I seem to have experienced is the "name thing" and that started sometime in my early 50s and is certainly not getting any better. I did read, though, recently that name recognition peaks at age 25. That "name thing" doesn't really bother me since that seems to be a common malady for those in my age bracket and really does not get in the way of life.

Since I started doing free weight (barbells) nine years ago at the age of 60 and dutifully doing them since then almost with fail three mornings while pushing myself to my absolute limits like I never have an any prior exercise program is it possible that the free weights have actually improved my brain? I've read that they are good for that. However, as soon as I wrote that I thought, if true, why have they only had that effect the last two years or so and not the preceding seven?

Vinny

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:30 pm
by Mark Leavy
vnatale wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:14 pm
is it possible that the free weights have actually improved my brain?
Guaranteed to be a strong factor in at least the maintenance. But tough to pinpoint the cause of your more recent accounting clairvoyance. There are a lot of variables in life.

Great to hear that you're staying sharp.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:35 pm
by vnatale
Mark Leavy wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:30 pm
vnatale wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:14 pm
is it possible that the free weights have actually improved my brain?
Guaranteed to be a strong factor in at least the maintenance. But tough to pinpoint the cause of your more recent accounting clairvoyance. There are a lot of variables in life.

Great to hear that you're staying sharp.
As I've many times told people, I'm built for thinking not for muscles. Therefore I need to hold to the brain functioning for as long as possible. As do all reading this!

Compared to the general American or world population this group in this forum heavily skews towards the more brain end (while fully believing that many of you have far more muscle than I do. In that area I'm just trying to do my best given my (low) potential - thin boned and "hard gainer").

Vinny

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:19 pm
by jason
Hello all,
I'm surprised there isn't more discussion in this forum regarding the use of high dose vitamin B3, niacin, for mental health benefits. Dr. Abram Hoffer discovered it in the 1950s after the pellagra (niacin deficiency) epidemic that was caused by the introduction of white/refined flour. After white flour became popular, the mental hospitals began to overflow with psychotic people (people experiencing delusions and/or hallucinations) with the diagnosis of schizophrenia. It was determined that refining flour into white flour removed essential nutrients so it was leading to people become vitamin deficient, and then the US Congress passed a law requiring that all white flour be enriched with vitamins. The mental hospital population quickly shrank, but Dr. Hoffer wondered if giving higher doses of vitamins would provide benefit to the patients who remained sick. He figured that since the psychosis from pellagra is clinically indistinguishable from schizophrenia, that perhaps schizophrenics were niacin deficient, but needed higher doses than what was added to white flour. After working with patients, he determined that giving very high doses of niacin (3,000+ mg/day) was hugely beneficial for schizophrenics, as long as it was given early on in the illness. Chronically ill patients had a much tougher/slower recovery. Dr. Hoffer conducted a double-blind, placebo-controlled study on niacin for acute (non-chronic) schizophrenia which showed huge benefits. But he could not get the article published in any mainstream journal, despite being a prolific publisher of mainstream research on LSD. Almost 20 years later, after Linus Pauling teamed up with Dr. Hoffer and niacin therapy was gaining traction, a mainstream study was conducted and published in a top psychiatry journal concluding that it didn't work. A few months later, the American Psychiatric Association announced that vitamins are of no benefit for mental illness. But then a follow up paper was published the following year and published in the same top journal and the author concluded that the treatment showed huge benefits for the subgroup of acutely ill schizophrenics. To this day, this is the only mainstream study on niacin for schizophrenia (that I am aware of). Here is the link to it:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaps ... act/491246
The abstract is very vague, but the paper says it works. Specifically, it discusses what the data shows if you separate out people who were acutely ill from the ones that were chronically ill:
"there were twice as many with a good outpatient adjustment score in the niacin supplementation group as in the control group."
I refer to this study as the "smoking gun" that shows that niacin works. Perhaps not surprisingly, the Big Pharma-aligned APA did not change the conclusion they had announced the previous year about vitamins being useless for mental illness.
Dr. Hoffer said he treated literally thousands of patients with niacin (typically in doses of 3,000 to 9,000 mg/day) for virtually all forms of mental health issues with huge success - schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, insomnia, etc. and he published numerous books on this.
Also, there are a lot of myths regarding high dose niacin being dangerous. It can often cause a mild elevation in liver enzymes the same way statin drugs do, but such elevations are considered benign, and serious injury or death is incredibly rare. Scientologists use high dose niacin in combination with heavy sauna use, and some people have run into health problems or even died, but I would assume it's primarily due to dehydration, not the niacin. But that has smeared the reputation of niacin. Slow release niacin has been associated with very rare cases of toxic liver reactions. Ironically, the only FDA approved form of niacin called Niaspan is a slow release formulation. This type of reaction from regular (non slow-release) niacin is almost unheard of. Also, niacin is known to cause a strong flushing side effect. It makes your skin turn red and feel likes a bad sunburn for about 30 minutes. But this is typically only strong at the beginning. It gets better after the first few days. Niacinamide is a different form of niacin and it does not have this side effect. Dr. Hoffer said it works for mental health benefits, too.
I have been taking high dose niacin three times per day for years and it's helped me tremendously. My stress levels are much lower and my overall mood is much better. I started by taking niacinamide which worked very well for reducing my stress, but then I switched to niacin because it lowers cholesterol. It lowered my cholesterol from 260 to 180. I just wanted to share my experience. I am not a doctor or health professional so I am definitely not qualified to give medical advice. I'm just sharing some little-known history and my experience with you.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:57 pm
by dualstow
This is fairly contrarian forum, and not just in the area of investing.

I'm curious: do you think kombucha is BS or worth drinking? I’m thinking about brewing it to save on costs, but I'm still somewhat skeptical.
Any thoughts?
(There's an older thread started by MG but it went nowhere. Consider this a bump).

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:50 pm
by Mark Leavy
My opinion is that it is a benign tasty refreshment. Nothing special. Usually brewed a little too sweet for my tastes.
In general, fermented foods of any sort are probably better than their unfermented equivalents. The fermentation swaps out the carbs for vinegar and a few beasties. An improvement, but that's about it, I think.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:24 pm
by dualstow
Thanks, Mark. In that case, that'd be a lot of hoops to jump through for a fermented beverage, I guess. There's always coffee, oolong and beer. O0

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:00 pm
by vnatale
dualstow wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:57 pm
This is fairly contrarian forum, and not just in the area of investing.

I'm curious: do you think kombucha is BS or worth drinking? I’m thinking about brewing it to save on costs, but I'm still somewhat skeptical.
Any thoughts?
(There's an older thread started by MG but it went nowhere. Consider this a bump).
One of our organization's main tenants produces it. I've never ever even tasted it because I cannot stand anything with a vinegar type smell to it. When my parents would eat french fries with vinegar on them I'd have to leave the room.

Vinny

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:26 pm
by dualstow
vnatale wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:00 pm
When my parents would eat french fries with vinegar on them I'd have to leave the room.
That is such a weird New England thing. Ruins the fries which would otherwise be an important part of the Permanent Diet. O0

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:48 pm
by Kriegsspiel
Not really a "supplement" but I've been using Costco brand protein bars as an pre-emptive appetite suppressant. 20g of protein and 15g of fiber 2 or 3 times a day.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:15 pm
by vnatale
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:48 pm
Not really a "supplement" but I've been using Costco brand protein bars as an pre-emptive appetite suppressant. 20g of protein and 15g of fiber 2 or 3 times a day.
On the ingredients list how far down is "sugar" listed as an ingredient?

Vinny

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:18 pm
by WiseOne
Nothing wrong with inulin, but most of those bars might as well be candy, with the amount of sugar they've got in them. Some of them are no different from downing a Snickers. They may or may not say "sugar" on the ingredient list, but there's no end of sugary products peddled as healthy (agave, coconut sugar, brown rice syrup, dextrin, .... the list is endless).

I figure fermented foods are sort of like free probiotics, and probably no worse than ordering pills on Amazon that are 99% likely to be dead and 100% likely to come from China. I don't bother with kombucha, but I get fermented veggies from my local grocery - variations on sauerkraut. They are great for lazy cooks: open bag, scoop out veggies, put on plate, eat.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:48 pm
by dualstow
Cool. I don’t think i’ve seen fermented vegetables in my stores other than the ‘kraut.
I used to see Mother In Law’s brand kimchi with daikon cubes. Then it was suddely napa cabbage all the time.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:09 pm
by pp4me
I get my fermented food from liquid supplements on a daily basis.

And even if I don't it seems as though my body always has its own fermentation process going on at all times and provides me with plenty of evidence.