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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:33 am
by WiseOne
The main problem with canola, corn and soybean oil is that they're basically experimental. And it's not only the oils. The plants themselves are also new in the sense that they've been bred or engineered for yield, pest resistance etc. For example, wheat is an entirely new plant with substantial genetic differences from the wheat we've been eating for thousands of years.

With all the burgeoning random and poorly understood health problems, like: rise of depression & anxiety, ADHD, subjectively reported gluten sensitivity, undiagnosable "chronic fatigue" and "fibromyalgia" that's created a cottage industry for quacks, not to mention metabolic syndrome, you have to wonder about all these changes introduced into the food system in the name of reducing heart disease risk. Of course it's also possible that this is all just an effect of whiny worried well with too much time on their hands, a temptation to make medical care a hobby because someone else is paying for it, and an inability to deal with life the way their grandparents did, but there's evidence that some of these conditions are indeed real and increasingly common.

If I could go back and change one thing about history, it would be to wipe out Ancel Keyes. He should have been fired and forced to retract his papers, given all the scientific misconduct (cherry-picking data) and logical flaws (e.g. ignoring the effect of cigarette smoking).

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:01 am
by Cortopassi
WiseOne wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:33 am
If I could go back and change one thing about history, it would be to wipe out Ancel Keyes. He should have been fired and forced to retract his papers, given all the scientific misconduct (cherry-picking data) and logical flaws (e.g. ignoring the effect of cigarette smoking).
Yes!

Even now, though improving a lot because of the wisdom of crowds / internet effect, saturated fat still is demonized. Meat is somewhat demonized (lean cuts...). Eggs are getting less of a bad rap. Butter is doing better. Full fat milk (I can't believe I drank skim for decades). But cholesterol will still kill you if you don't take a statin.

It is heartening to see changes by companies that are appealing to Keto/Paleo in offering items that have much lower carbs and sugar. Full avocado oil mayo (but I don't like the taste!). Coconut oil offered everywhere now.

Soybean oil, though can still be found in way too much stuff. It is just amazing that it is in so many things.

But there is still a lot of continued misinformation

http://www.cardiobrief.org/2016/11/14/i ... reporters/

Image

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:33 am
by vnatale
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:01 am
WiseOne wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:33 am
If I could go back and change one thing about history, it would be to wipe out Ancel Keyes. He should have been fired and forced to retract his papers, given all the scientific misconduct (cherry-picking data) and logical flaws (e.g. ignoring the effect of cigarette smoking).
Yes!

Even now, though improving a lot because of the wisdom of crowds / internet effect, saturated fat still is demonized. Meat is somewhat demonized (lean cuts...). Eggs are getting less of a bad rap. Butter is doing better. Full fat milk (I can't believe I drank skim for decades). But cholesterol will still kill you if you don't take a statin.

It is heartening to see changes by companies that are appealing to Keto/Paleo in offering items that have much lower carbs and sugar. Full avocado oil mayo (but I don't like the taste!). Coconut oil offered everywhere now.

Soybean oil, though can still be found in way too much stuff. It is just amazing that it is in so many things.

But there is still a lot of continued misinformation

http://www.cardiobrief.org/2016/11/14/i ... reporters/

Image
Are you saying that the picture you have here is an example of "misinformation"?

Vinny

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:21 pm
by dualstow
I haven’t read through this thread, but Smithers, how much Vitamin D do you take at once?
After some cursory reading, I ordered some since I don’t have access to the salmon I was buying pre-corona.
I only got 600 iu pills. In fact, they’re children’s vitamins. O0

As they say in Chinese, too much is too little.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:25 pm
by Smith1776
dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:21 pm
I haven’t read through this thread, but Smithers, how much Vitamin D do you take at once?
After some cursory reading, I ordered some since I don’t have access to the salmon I was buying pre-corona.
I only got 600 iu pills. In fact, they’re children’s vitamins. O0

As they say in Chinese, too much is too little.
Currently taking 1800 IUs daily! This was on the recommendation of my family doctor.

To be fair, from what I was told, we Canadians need a lot of Vitamin D because of our lack of sun exposure. Those of you guys south of the border probably don't need as much.

I get 800 IUs from my multivitamin, and an additional 1000 from the dedicated Vitamin D supplement.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:42 pm
by dualstow
Thanks!

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:57 am
by Mark Leavy
Strictly for the purposes of this virus season, I did 2 days in a row of 50,000 IU VD3, followed by daily 5,000 IU. That's too high for long term use, but I'll probably maintain it for a few months.

Normally I get enough sunshine that I don't supplement. I'll probably stop again when I can get back to some summer sunshine.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:05 am
by dualstow
50,000! Was that an experiment, Mark, or did that come from research?

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:17 am
by Mark Leavy
dualstow wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:05 am
50,000! Was that an experiment, Mark, or did that come from research?
I don't know how widespread the recommendation is, but a lot of professionals attack the first sign of any flu like symptoms with a Vitamin D Hammer

Here's a bit from the abstract...
A colleague of mine and I have introduced vitamin D at doses that have achieved greater than 100 nmol/L in most of our patients for the past number of years, and we now see very few patients in our clinics with the flu or influenzalike illness. In those patients who do have influenza, we have treated them with the vitamin D hammer, as coined by my colleague. This is a 1-time 50 000 IU dose of vitamin D3 or 10 000 IU 3 times daily for 2 to 3 days. The results are dramatic, with complete resolution of symptoms in 48 to 72 hours. One-time doses of vitamin D at this level have been used safely and have never been shown to be toxic.8 We urgently need a study of this intervention. The cost of vitamin D is about a penny for 1000 IU, so this treatment costs less than a dollar.
I don't have symptoms, but I figured it couldn't hurt.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:27 am
by dualstow
Wow.
Vitamin D Hammer
a mjölnirvitamin complex

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:18 am
by Mark Leavy
dualstow wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:27 am
Wow.
Vitamin D Hammer
a mjölnirvitamin complex
Available (with price gouging) from Kriegsspiel's private bunker supply.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:01 pm
by Kriegsspiel
I'm on that D too. Probably don't have enough to support Mark's level of abuse, but I need to get more anyways. I like the chewable grape-flavored ones.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:33 pm
by dualstow
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:01 pm
I'm on that D too. Probably don't have enough to support Mark's level of abuse, but I need to get more anyways. I like the chewable grape-flavored ones.
I have dissolvable watermelon ones, if only because everything else was over 600 IU.
d-rex.png
d-rex.png (113.85 KiB) Viewed 19889 times

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:35 pm
by Kriegsspiel
Not everyone can handle the D.

EDIT but also, goddamn dinosaur vitamins are great.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:42 pm
by Smith1776
MangoMan wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:39 am
Yep, my doctor told me to take 2000 IU / day after my blood levels at a winter physical were on the low side. The further south you live (as long as you are outside a fair amount) the less you need to supplement.
My doctor told me that literally almost everyone who lives in Canada is vitamin D deficient. In her opinion, basically every Canadian citizen should be supplementing.

The Vitamin D deficiency problem is so ubiquitous here that the blood test for it is no longer covered by our health care system. You have to pay out of pocket for it. It was $65 for me. :P

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:47 pm
by Kriegsspiel
I don't understand why you guys aren't eating seal livers or penguin blubber some weird local delicacy has vit D in it. Whatever you have stored in your igloos.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:57 pm
by Smith1776
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:47 pm
I don't understand why you guys aren't eating seal livers or penguin blubber some weird local delicacy has vit D in it. Whatever you have stored in your igloos.
We only have moose and beaver meat in my region.

It's just not enough.

Image

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:59 pm
by Kriegsspiel
Some beaver is full of D.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:00 pm
by Smith1776
Wait, we're still talking about fetishes right?

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:16 pm
by dualstow
But you guys have all that salmon.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:16 am
by vnatale
Can Brain Supplements Really Help You Think and Perform Better? A Neuroscientist Weighs In


Physician and neuroscientist Dr. Tara Swart gives a reality check on the supplements that are worth taking--and the ones that aren't worth the hype

https://www.inc.com/graham-winfrey/supp ... id=sf01001

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:09 pm
by Mark Leavy
vnatale wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:16 am
Can Brain Supplements Really Help You Think and Perform Better? A Neuroscientist Weighs In


Physician and neuroscientist Dr. Tara Swart gives a reality check on the supplements that are worth taking--and the ones that aren't worth the hype

https://www.inc.com/graham-winfrey/supp ... id=sf01001
Everything on that list, except possibly coconut oil and MCT (as an accidental side effect) are pretty much bullshit. And if you take enough of those to make a difference you won't be venturing far from a restroom. Here's what does work: Get your blood ketones up to around 3 or 4 mmol/liter. Or you could just be naturally crazy smart like most of the [not me] posters on this forum.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:17 pm
by Mark Leavy
MangoMan wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:58 pm
I thought there was more data in favor of the fish oil (omega-3) than on coconut oil, which is sketchy at best.
I don't have anything that can back me up. But, I don't believe that there is much (if any) direct nootropic benefit from either one if ingested in realistic quantities. At least that is my opinion after personally experimenting with both. The coconut oil has a large MCT component which converts to ketones pretty rapidly, so there could be some effect there, but as I mentioned that is a rough way to up your ketones. Not recommended in quantity. Likewise you can't take Omega 3's in any significant quantity (as a percentage of your daily calories). That much PUFA would do way more damage than good.

From a practical standpoint, any nootropic benefit from a dietary supplement would be measured at the noise level if you haven't already reduced carbohydrates and alcohol to a very small fraction of your energy intake. Most people report significant reduction in brain fog and increased focus after a few months of making that step. It would be like a smoker asking about workouts and nutrition to get in shape. Yes, there are some great things you can do, but first quit smoking. Unfortunately, that kind of dietary change can be extremely difficult and/or undesirable for a large part of the population.

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:14 pm
by vnatale
Mark Leavy wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:17 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:58 pm
I thought there was more data in favor of the fish oil (omega-3) than on coconut oil, which is sketchy at best.
I don't have anything that can back me up. But, I don't believe that there is much (if any) direct nootropic benefit from either one if ingested in realistic quantities. At least that is my opinion after personally experimenting with both. The coconut oil has a large MCT component which converts to ketones pretty rapidly, so there could be some effect there, but as I mentioned that is a rough way to up your ketones. Not recommended in quantity. Likewise you can't take Omega 3's in any significant quantity (as a percentage of your daily calories). That much PUFA would do way more damage than good.

From a practical standpoint, any nootropic benefit from a dietary supplement would be measured at the noise level if you haven't already reduced carbohydrates and alcohol to a very small fraction of your energy intake. Most people report significant reduction in brain fog and increased focus after a few months of making that step. It would be like a smoker asking about workouts and nutrition to get in shape. Yes, there are some great things you can do, but first quit smoking. Unfortunately, that kind of dietary change can be extremely difficult and/or undesirable for a large part of the population.
I have down the alcohol part. Zero. But it seems my diet is highly carbohydrate. However, they are all of the complex variety. No simple. Do you make any differentiation between those two categories?

I don't have brain fog and good focus.

In the last few years I've noticed something quite the opposite effect than I'd have expected with advancing age.

I've been in the same position for over 10 years and doing a lot of accounting work in it.

In accounting many of the tasks are super repetitive. Could be you do them annually, quarterly, monthly, weekly, or, even daily.

Therefore in that time span I've performed many of the same tasks over and over and over.

Of course many of them are not brain stimulating at all to do so I want to complete them using as little time as possible.

What's been happening in the past few years is that for many of these tasks that I've done for years and years I'm all of a sudden getting these flash insights into doing them faster, a different way, less steps. Basically taking less time to accomplish the mission or producing a better end result or both. Or, finally coming up with solutions to certain problems that that eluded me in the past.

This, of course, is something I've always done all the time - perform a task better. But the last few years have been without parallel for the depth and the number of these insights I've having. Far more than in any prior years.

Opposite of what you'd expect in that at this age even though I'd done these things so many times sometimes I'd think that I'd start to get fuzzy on some of the steps.

The only brain diminution I seem to have experienced is the "name thing" and that started sometime in my early 50s and is certainly not getting any better. I did read, though, recently that name recognition peaks at age 25. That "name thing" doesn't really bother me since that seems to be a common malady for those in my age bracket and really does not get in the way of life.

Since I started doing free weight (barbells) nine years ago at the age of 60 and dutifully doing them since then almost with fail three mornings while pushing myself to my absolute limits like I never have an any prior exercise program is it possible that the free weights have actually improved my brain? I've read that they are good for that. However, as soon as I wrote that I thought, if true, why have they only had that effect the last two years or so and not the preceding seven?

Vinny

Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:30 pm
by Mark Leavy
vnatale wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:14 pm
is it possible that the free weights have actually improved my brain?
Guaranteed to be a strong factor in at least the maintenance. But tough to pinpoint the cause of your more recent accounting clairvoyance. There are a lot of variables in life.

Great to hear that you're staying sharp.