The Permanent Supplement Regime

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jacksonM
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by jacksonM » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:08 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:11 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:25 am
I've been Keto/Paleo on and off for the past couple years.
I like to avoid unnecessary volatility with a strategy I call "Half-Assed Paleo". ;D

It's kind of a mix of low-carb and cognitive dissonance.
I think any diet will work for weight loss in the short term, and even in the long term if you can follow it strictly enough. The real question is how sustainable is it? Jillian Michaels of "The biggest loser" fame has just made some videos critical of the ketogenic diet. She says her standard method of caloric restriction while eating six meals a deal, including lots of whole grain foods, and lots of exercise is the way to go but all you have to do to debunk her claims is listen to the "biggest losers" that have regained all the weight and then some.

It does take some effort and ingenuity to go keto/low carb/paleo but I've found it to be highly sustainable. I think this is because you can actually eat and feel full. Show me a steak and a donut and I'll go for the steak every time.
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Cortopassi
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:12 pm

I agree. It always takes a few days, but sugar cravings go away pretty fast, and when there are sweets around it gets easier and easier to say no.

One thing I do miss is eating half a bag of some good salty BBQ potato chips....
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Mark Leavy
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:13 am

pugchief wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:03 am
-Why don't you want the egg whites (protein) after lifting weights?
-Is the HC for your joints? Would the addition of the egg whites be too much protein?
-That seems like an awful lot of salt....
-What specifically are you hoping to gain via the N-AC? The studies don't seem that conclusive.
Egg whites are great protein if you cook them, but it's simpler to just drink the yolks. Uncooked whites bind the biotin in the yolks. Also, between the collagen and the steak, I get enough protein. I drink the yolks as my multi-vitamin. I don't eat much organ meat, muscle meat is tasty but a bit deficient. Egg yolks supply all of the other things that make up a whole living being. Mixing in a bit of OJ makes them quite tasty and a few grams of carbs means less protein used up for gluconeogenesis. Plus the Vitamin C aids in collagen production.

N-AC is still on my list of things that appear to work but I haven't run enough tests. So far, though, I seem to be getting very good results in repairing sun damage on my skin - all of the little issues are just starting to fade away. The theory is that it recharges your used up glutothione - which is the immune system powerhouse for things like colds, anti-cancer, tangled proteins and processing the second stage of alcohol consumption.

I've had nothing but good results from using HC. I get about half of my daily protein from collagen - which roughly matches our body content. Wounds heal almost overnight. I never get tendonitis from working out anymore. Joints seem to be able to keep up with muscle mass. I jokingly refer to my collagen as Adamantium as it seems to build an indestructible substructure. The salt is just for flavor. I like salt.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:15 am

Don wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:10 am

Where do you go for #8?
Hey :)
My girlfriend meets up with me somewhere in the world about once a month for a week or so. Other than that, I'm on my own...
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by bedraggled » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:20 am

Mark,

Currently experiencing 2 months of tendinitis from weights. Feels like the elbow joint involved, too.

I’ve had this issue on and off since age 15. A suggestion asserts this injury is a collection of micro tears subsequent to the original injury. This bout of tendinitis has lasted longer than the other episodes. I was casual about the situation but now, not so. Rest has improved things but....

I would like to mention HC to my nutrition/health person. Is HC widely known? I see a lot of collagen products out there.

As I enter the last week of a 24 day visit to Europe, lifting a couple of rolling suitcases into the train overhead has been less restful for the injury. I will be back for another 3 weeks of Euro adventures in April. A happy, tendinitis-free joint would be a plus.

Thanks.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:00 am

bedraggled wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:20 am
Mark,

Currently experiencing 2 months of tendinitis from weights. Feels like the elbow joint involved, too.
Different strokes (heh) for different folks. Maybe you should get a girlfriend or reduce your frequency.

Oh, you said weights, not eights.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:43 pm

bedraggled wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:20 am
Mark,

Currently experiencing 2 months of tendinitis from weights. Feels like the elbow joint involved, too.

I’ve had this issue on and off since age 15. A suggestion asserts this injury is a collection of micro tears subsequent to the original injury. This bout of tendinitis has lasted longer than the other episodes. I was casual about the situation but now, not so. Rest has improved things but....

I would like to mention HC to my nutrition/health person. Is HC widely known? I see a lot of collagen products out there.

As I enter the last week of a 24 day visit to Europe, lifting a couple of rolling suitcases into the train overhead has been less restful for the injury. I will be back for another 3 weeks of Euro adventures in April. A happy, tendinitis-free joint would be a plus.

Thanks.
Yea.. I've had that a couple of times in the past. Not fun carrying luggage or opening heavy doors. Over time, I've become a big believer in the Mark Rippetoe approach to tendinitis. He claims that resting never heals it. It just stops hurting a bit until you use it again. You have to force it heal. Different approaches for different joints, but his protocol for golfer or tennis elbow is:

Once every 5 days or so, do 20 sets of 2 bodyweight chins - spaced a minute or two apart. Over the course of 3 to 5 weeks build up to 30 sets of 5 reps.

Obviously, you would tailor that to your own ability, but it gives you a flavor of the kind of stress that will get the actual healing started. May even apply to Kriegsspiel's scenario :)

It hurts. Rippetoe suggests ibuprofen, but I've never tried it.

My own opinion is that for an older person like me, collagen is essential to aid the recovery and I use a huge amount (50 grams/day). I really don't have a clue as to how Hydrolyzed Collagen is viewed by health professionals. There are a lot of decent studies on PubMed, but that doesn't really tell you how it is seen in the industry.

Best of luck bedraggled - whatever you end up doing. If you find some path that works, I'd be interested in hearing about.

Mark
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by pugchief » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:56 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:43 pm
bedraggled wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:20 am
Mark,

Currently experiencing 2 months of tendinitis from weights. Feels like the elbow joint involved, too.

I’ve had this issue on and off since age 15. A suggestion asserts this injury is a collection of micro tears subsequent to the original injury. This bout of tendinitis has lasted longer than the other episodes. I was casual about the situation but now, not so. Rest has improved things but....

I would like to mention HC to my nutrition/health person. Is HC widely known? I see a lot of collagen products out there.

As I enter the last week of a 24 day visit to Europe, lifting a couple of rolling suitcases into the train overhead has been less restful for the injury. I will be back for another 3 weeks of Euro adventures in April. A happy, tendinitis-free joint would be a plus.

Thanks.
Yea.. I've had that a couple of times in the past. Not fun carrying luggage or opening heavy doors. Over time, I've become a big believer in the Mark Rippetoe approach to tendinitis. He claims that resting never heals it. It just stops hurting a bit until you use it again. You have to force it heal. Different approaches for different joints, but his protocol for golfer or tennis elbow is:

Once every 5 days or so, do 20 sets of 2 bodyweight chins - spaced a minute or two apart. Over the course of 3 to 5 weeks build up to 30 sets of 5 reps.

Obviously, you would tailor that to your own ability, but it gives you a flavor of the kind of stress that will get the actual healing started. May even apply to Kriegsspiel's scenario :)

It hurts. Rippetoe suggests ibuprofen, but I've never tried it.

My own opinion is that for an older person like me, collagen is essential to aid the recovery and I use a huge amount (50 grams/day). I really don't have a clue as to how Hydrolyzed Collagen is viewed by health professionals. There are a lot of decent studies on PubMed, but that doesn't really tell you how it is seen in the industry.

Best of luck bedraggled - whatever you end up doing. If you find some path that works, I'd be interested in hearing about.

Mark
Mark,
When you say Rippetoe chins, are we talking about an underhand grip slightly less than shoulder width apart?

I have had both tennis and golf elbow. Ibuprofen helps, but the only thing that gets rid of acute tendinitis for me is lots and lots of icing. As I have aged to 59, I have developed more chronic tendinitis in a couple of spots. Rest seems to help, ice, too. I just ordered HC based on your anecdotal results to see if that has any benefit. Can't hurt, might help. Thanks for the recommendation.

Btw, as far as your original diet of yolks, steak and wine:
I assume you are talking red wine? And you don't eat any vegetables/salad with dinner?
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:38 pm

pugchief wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:56 pm
Mark,
When you say Rippetoe chins, are we talking about an underhand grip slightly less than shoulder width apart?

I have had both tennis and golf elbow. Ibuprofen helps, but the only thing that gets rid of acute tendinitis for me is lots and lots of icing. As I have aged to 59, I have developed more chronic tendinitis in a couple of spots. Rest seems to help, ice, too. I just ordered HC based on your anecdotal results to see if that has any benefit. Can't hurt, might help. Thanks for the recommendation.

Btw, as far as your original diet of yolks, steak and wine:
I assume you are talking red wine? And you don't eat any vegetables/salad with dinner?
Chins : Yes, exactly. Supinated grip at whatever width works for you.

Wine: Yes, I drink mostly red wine - because I like it. But alcohol is complicated. Sure, avoid beer and sweet mixers, but I've never fully bought into any health benefits from the small amount of resveratrol in red wine. When I drink it will usually be a red wine or a dry prosecco or a nice sipping rum or a bourbon. But I drink for the social aspect and the Ballmer Peak.

https://xkcd.com/323/

After really looking at what happens when you metabolize alcohol, there is no solid health benefit argument. Yes some resvertrol is an anti-oxidant. Yes, alcohol changes (improves?) your insulin sensitivity. Yes, moderate alcohol consumption correlates with a higher all cause life expectancy. But in reality acetaldehyde (second stage of alcohol metabolism) is really nasty stuff - and you can't argue that processing it is healthy in any way.

I still drink wine or rum or bourbon with my steak. I eat a full meal once a day - usually at a bar and the social aspect is really good for me. And I write very good draft material when I'm between about .05 and .07 BAC. And there are some hacks you can do with the empty calories from alcohol that you can't do with empty calories from carbohydrates.

Veggies: No I don't do any sides or veggies with my evening meal. I'm pretty neutral on them though. In general plants that don't have too many calories are a No op. Eat them if you like them, don't if you don't. There is no real nutrition in them - at least compared to eggs and cream and steak and paté. I'm no fan of greens but I do like some horseradish or hot peppers or maybe a pickle or some kraut. But they don't add anything nutritionally. Plants with calories either have carbs or fats. There, you have to pick and choose...

Well, that was pretty rambling. Sorry about that. Best of luck on your tendinitis Pugchief.

Mark
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:37 am

I know that Bryan Haycock, who developed the hypertrophy specific training method, said that the high rep part of the program was good for tendonitis and general aches and pains, because of the restorative effects of lactic acid, but I never looked much into it. That said, doing light weights for high reps/full ROM feels good. That's what they do in physical therapy, anyways.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:47 pm

A question to all, and please realize this all stems from mental conditioning when I was a fat kid.

If I eat "normal" meaning don't worry about carbs, chocolate, etc, my weight will vary between about 197 and 204 depending on time of year.

If I eat lo carb/Keto, my weight ranges 194-198. This is after 2 months of Keto. Has happened similarly 5+ times over the past 3 years.

I am a little nuts (pun) about peanut butter, which probably routinely puts me high on the calorie side regardless of keto or not.

So...how does someone determine their goal weight? I don't feel fat, my joints are good, my clothes fit fine, I am 6'3", yet mentally I want my weight to be 185-190. Always, tantalizingly out of reach. I hit 189 a couple years ago for a short amount of time, but my body always wants to reset to the higher 190s. It has been unbreakable for 10+ years. Should I stop trying to break it? Why do I want to break it?

Crazy mental shit. I certainly never starve myself to get there, but I am also quietly unhappy I can't get there. I'll get off the therapist couch now.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:12 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:47 pm
my weight will vary between about 197 and 204

If I eat lo carb/Keto, my weight ranges 194-198. This is after 2 months of Keto. Has happened similarly 5+ times over the past 3 years.
Losing a few pounds of water weight is normal on ketogenic diets; your levels of muscle glycogen are lower, and a few molecules of water are attached to each molecule of glycogen. So even if you maintain your lean body mass and fat weight, you'll see a few pounds drop off the scale. Swings of 6-10 pounds over a 3 year period is pretty much meaningless unless it's accompanied by big changes in body composition.
I am a little nuts (pun) about peanut butter, which probably routinely puts me high on the calorie side regardless of keto or not.
So is Rich Frohning, a very impressive Crossfit guy:
Image

He talks about it in that article I linked to. I remember watching a doc on him where he just crushes milk and PB & J out of a bowl all day. Peanut butter rules.
I don't feel fat, my joints are good, my clothes fit fine, I am 6'3", yet mentally I want my weight to be 185-190. Always, tantalizingly out of reach. I hit 189 a couple years ago for a short amount of time, but my body always wants to reset to the higher 190s. It has been unbreakable for 10+ years. Should I stop trying to break it? Why do I want to break it?

Crazy mental shit. I certainly never starve myself to get there, but I am also quietly unhappy I can't get there. I'll get off the therapist couch now.
... I dunno man. Is it too simple to say stop giving a shit? Tell yourself your new goal is to put on 5 pounds of muscle and be a leaner 195.
So...how does someone determine their goal weight?
This calculator seems valid as far as estimating your potential weight at different levels of fatness.
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