The Permanent Supplement Regime

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pugchief
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by pugchief » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:56 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:43 pm
bedraggled wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:20 am
Mark,

Currently experiencing 2 months of tendinitis from weights. Feels like the elbow joint involved, too.

I’ve had this issue on and off since age 15. A suggestion asserts this injury is a collection of micro tears subsequent to the original injury. This bout of tendinitis has lasted longer than the other episodes. I was casual about the situation but now, not so. Rest has improved things but....

I would like to mention HC to my nutrition/health person. Is HC widely known? I see a lot of collagen products out there.

As I enter the last week of a 24 day visit to Europe, lifting a couple of rolling suitcases into the train overhead has been less restful for the injury. I will be back for another 3 weeks of Euro adventures in April. A happy, tendinitis-free joint would be a plus.

Thanks.
Yea.. I've had that a couple of times in the past. Not fun carrying luggage or opening heavy doors. Over time, I've become a big believer in the Mark Rippetoe approach to tendinitis. He claims that resting never heals it. It just stops hurting a bit until you use it again. You have to force it heal. Different approaches for different joints, but his protocol for golfer or tennis elbow is:

Once every 5 days or so, do 20 sets of 2 bodyweight chins - spaced a minute or two apart. Over the course of 3 to 5 weeks build up to 30 sets of 5 reps.

Obviously, you would tailor that to your own ability, but it gives you a flavor of the kind of stress that will get the actual healing started. May even apply to Kriegsspiel's scenario :)

It hurts. Rippetoe suggests ibuprofen, but I've never tried it.

My own opinion is that for an older person like me, collagen is essential to aid the recovery and I use a huge amount (50 grams/day). I really don't have a clue as to how Hydrolyzed Collagen is viewed by health professionals. There are a lot of decent studies on PubMed, but that doesn't really tell you how it is seen in the industry.

Best of luck bedraggled - whatever you end up doing. If you find some path that works, I'd be interested in hearing about.

Mark
Mark,
When you say Rippetoe chins, are we talking about an underhand grip slightly less than shoulder width apart?

I have had both tennis and golf elbow. Ibuprofen helps, but the only thing that gets rid of acute tendinitis for me is lots and lots of icing. As I have aged to 59, I have developed more chronic tendinitis in a couple of spots. Rest seems to help, ice, too. I just ordered HC based on your anecdotal results to see if that has any benefit. Can't hurt, might help. Thanks for the recommendation.

Btw, as far as your original diet of yolks, steak and wine:
I assume you are talking red wine? And you don't eat any vegetables/salad with dinner?
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:38 pm

pugchief wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:56 pm
Mark,
When you say Rippetoe chins, are we talking about an underhand grip slightly less than shoulder width apart?

I have had both tennis and golf elbow. Ibuprofen helps, but the only thing that gets rid of acute tendinitis for me is lots and lots of icing. As I have aged to 59, I have developed more chronic tendinitis in a couple of spots. Rest seems to help, ice, too. I just ordered HC based on your anecdotal results to see if that has any benefit. Can't hurt, might help. Thanks for the recommendation.

Btw, as far as your original diet of yolks, steak and wine:
I assume you are talking red wine? And you don't eat any vegetables/salad with dinner?
Chins : Yes, exactly. Supinated grip at whatever width works for you.

Wine: Yes, I drink mostly red wine - because I like it. But alcohol is complicated. Sure, avoid beer and sweet mixers, but I've never fully bought into any health benefits from the small amount of resveratrol in red wine. When I drink it will usually be a red wine or a dry prosecco or a nice sipping rum or a bourbon. But I drink for the social aspect and the Ballmer Peak.

https://xkcd.com/323/

After really looking at what happens when you metabolize alcohol, there is no solid health benefit argument. Yes some resvertrol is an anti-oxidant. Yes, alcohol changes (improves?) your insulin sensitivity. Yes, moderate alcohol consumption correlates with a higher all cause life expectancy. But in reality acetaldehyde (second stage of alcohol metabolism) is really nasty stuff - and you can't argue that processing it is healthy in any way.

I still drink wine or rum or bourbon with my steak. I eat a full meal once a day - usually at a bar and the social aspect is really good for me. And I write very good draft material when I'm between about .05 and .07 BAC. And there are some hacks you can do with the empty calories from alcohol that you can't do with empty calories from carbohydrates.

Veggies: No I don't do any sides or veggies with my evening meal. I'm pretty neutral on them though. In general plants that don't have too many calories are a No op. Eat them if you like them, don't if you don't. There is no real nutrition in them - at least compared to eggs and cream and steak and paté. I'm no fan of greens but I do like some horseradish or hot peppers or maybe a pickle or some kraut. But they don't add anything nutritionally. Plants with calories either have carbs or fats. There, you have to pick and choose...

Well, that was pretty rambling. Sorry about that. Best of luck on your tendinitis Pugchief.

Mark
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:37 am

I know that Bryan Haycock, who developed the hypertrophy specific training method, said that the high rep part of the program was good for tendonitis and general aches and pains, because of the restorative effects of lactic acid, but I never looked much into it. That said, doing light weights for high reps/full ROM feels good. That's what they do in physical therapy, anyways.
There are several thousand nearly complete viral genomes integrated into the human genome, most now inert or missing a crucial gene. These account for 1.3% of the entire genome. That may not sound like much, but 'proper' genes account for only 3%. If you think being descended from apes is bad for your self-esteem, then get used to the idea that you are also descended from viruses.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:47 pm

A question to all, and please realize this all stems from mental conditioning when I was a fat kid.

If I eat "normal" meaning don't worry about carbs, chocolate, etc, my weight will vary between about 197 and 204 depending on time of year.

If I eat lo carb/Keto, my weight ranges 194-198. This is after 2 months of Keto. Has happened similarly 5+ times over the past 3 years.

I am a little nuts (pun) about peanut butter, which probably routinely puts me high on the calorie side regardless of keto or not.

So...how does someone determine their goal weight? I don't feel fat, my joints are good, my clothes fit fine, I am 6'3", yet mentally I want my weight to be 185-190. Always, tantalizingly out of reach. I hit 189 a couple years ago for a short amount of time, but my body always wants to reset to the higher 190s. It has been unbreakable for 10+ years. Should I stop trying to break it? Why do I want to break it?

Crazy mental shit. I certainly never starve myself to get there, but I am also quietly unhappy I can't get there. I'll get off the therapist couch now.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:12 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:47 pm
my weight will vary between about 197 and 204

If I eat lo carb/Keto, my weight ranges 194-198. This is after 2 months of Keto. Has happened similarly 5+ times over the past 3 years.
Losing a few pounds of water weight is normal on ketogenic diets; your levels of muscle glycogen are lower, and a few molecules of water are attached to each molecule of glycogen. So even if you maintain your lean body mass and fat weight, you'll see a few pounds drop off the scale. Swings of 6-10 pounds over a 3 year period is pretty much meaningless unless it's accompanied by big changes in body composition.
I am a little nuts (pun) about peanut butter, which probably routinely puts me high on the calorie side regardless of keto or not.
So is Rich Frohning, a very impressive Crossfit guy:
Image

He talks about it in that article I linked to. I remember watching a doc on him where he just crushes milk and PB & J out of a bowl all day. Peanut butter rules.
I don't feel fat, my joints are good, my clothes fit fine, I am 6'3", yet mentally I want my weight to be 185-190. Always, tantalizingly out of reach. I hit 189 a couple years ago for a short amount of time, but my body always wants to reset to the higher 190s. It has been unbreakable for 10+ years. Should I stop trying to break it? Why do I want to break it?

Crazy mental shit. I certainly never starve myself to get there, but I am also quietly unhappy I can't get there. I'll get off the therapist couch now.
... I dunno man. Is it too simple to say stop giving a shit? Tell yourself your new goal is to put on 5 pounds of muscle and be a leaner 195.
So...how does someone determine their goal weight?
This calculator seems valid as far as estimating your potential weight at different levels of fatness.
There are several thousand nearly complete viral genomes integrated into the human genome, most now inert or missing a crucial gene. These account for 1.3% of the entire genome. That may not sound like much, but 'proper' genes account for only 3%. If you think being descended from apes is bad for your self-esteem, then get used to the idea that you are also descended from viruses.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:35 pm

Rich Froning works out more in a day than I do in a month, and eats more carbs in a day than I do in about 2 weeks. Hard to make a comparison, but thanks.

BMI range is normal, but at the high end. Waist to hip ratio is ok, waist to height is ok. I am easily in the acceptable range for body fat %.

Various other calculators show me at a perfectly fine weight for my frame size (~medium).

Maybe time to stop giving a shit.

This is an interesting calculator that hits the nail on the head for the way I think about weight.

https://halls.md/ideal-weight/body.htm
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:36 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:35 pm
Rich Froning works out more in a day than I do in a month, and eats more carbs in a day than I do in about 2 weeks. Hard to make a comparison, but thanks.
He was definitely not included for comparison, he's kind of a freak. You should work out more often though. Can you at least cram as much PB as he does?
BMI range is normal, but at the high end. Waist to hip ratio is ok, waist to height is ok. I am easily in the acceptable range for body fat %.

Various other calculators show me at a perfectly fine weight for my frame size (~medium).

This is an interesting calculator that hits the nail on the head for the way I think about weight.

https://halls.md/ideal-weight/body.htm

Maybe time to stop giving a shit.
Glad I could help ;D
There are several thousand nearly complete viral genomes integrated into the human genome, most now inert or missing a crucial gene. These account for 1.3% of the entire genome. That may not sound like much, but 'proper' genes account for only 3%. If you think being descended from apes is bad for your self-esteem, then get used to the idea that you are also descended from viruses.
Ridley, Genome
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by pugchief » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:25 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:35 pm
Rich Froning works out more in a day than I do in a month, and eats more carbs in a day than I do in about 2 weeks. Hard to make a comparison, but thanks.

BMI range is normal, but at the high end. Waist to hip ratio is ok, waist to height is ok. I am easily in the acceptable range for body fat %.

Various other calculators show me at a perfectly fine weight for my frame size (~medium).

Maybe time to stop giving a shit.

This is an interesting calculator that hits the nail on the head for the way I think about weight.

https://halls.md/ideal-weight/body.htm
Maybe more weightlifting and less cardio (bike riding)?
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:37 pm

I dislike weightlifting, one of the reasons I quit football in high school.

The biking I do gets me into theoretical fat burning heart rate zone, I don’t go for crazy sprint speeds. Heart about 130 to 150 max.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:24 am

Something I noticed, since I've always been a space buff and I've been reading and looking at a lot of archive videos and books and magazines from Apollo.

Look at the crowds watching the Apollo launches. Look at the workers. Look at the mission control people.

Find me an overweight/obese one. Bet you can't.

Grains, sugar and vegetable oils. I don't think it's because they exercised more or smoked or drank less or ate less meat!

I have a friend, my age, who I see once a year. Last Thanksgiving, told me he had diabetes and was taking medication (52). I sent him some lo carb/sugar/keto related links. He's lost 70 pounds and is off meds, mainly by just cutting out sugar.

It frustrates me to no end to see what's happening to this aspect of our society, and seeing all the medicine commercials on TV especially bothers me. A relative who died young a few years ago (early 60s) literally told me, hey, I can eat whatever I want, then I just have to take a pill (diabetes).

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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by sophie » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:43 am

Yup, I have no doubt that the introduction of low fat processed foods and the promotion of grain products was a major trigger, plus companies really started getting good at sneaking sugar into everything to cut costs. I recently started a keto diet (trying to shed those postmenopausal pounds) and went through the cabinets looking for contraband. I was amazed at how many things contained sugar. I even found it in olives and gourmet chipotle mayonnaise. And I thought I was pretty good at avoiding the stuff!

If you look at the most recent Dietary Guidelines document (2015), there is a subtle shift to demonizing saturated fats and simple sugars. There is no longer a maximum recommended intake of fats, only saturated fats (10% of calories). But, the document promotes grains (complex carbohydrates), lean meats, defatted dairy (no fat or 1% milk), and vegetable oils. And, it was pretty disheartening to read statements in the "science behind these recommendations" sections that were blatantly untrue, or at best misleading (e.g. "saturated fats have been repeatedly shown to cause heart disease"). Keto dieters who have reversed type 2 diabetes would laugh at this...

In honor of this I plan to get some pork shoulder and lard, and make sausages this weekend!
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:41 am

sophie wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:43 am
In honor of this I plan to get some pork shoulder and lard, and make sausages this weekend!
:)
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