Gyroscopic Investing

I agree. It always takes a few days, but sugar cravings go away pretty fast, and when there are sweets around it gets easier and easier to say no.

One thing I do miss is eating half a bag of some good salty BBQ potato chips....

MangoMan wrote: ↑Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:03 am -Why don't you want the egg whites (protein) after lifting weights?
-Is the HC for your joints? Would the addition of the egg whites be too much protein?
-That seems like an awful lot of salt....
-What specifically are you hoping to gain via the N-AC? The studies don't seem that conclusive.

Egg whites are great protein if you cook them, but it's simpler to just drink the yolks. Uncooked whites bind the biotin in the yolks. Also, between the collagen and the steak, I get enough protein. I drink the yolks as my multi-vitamin. I don't eat much organ meat, muscle meat is tasty but a bit deficient. Egg yolks supply all of the other things that make up a whole living being. Mixing in a bit of OJ makes them quite tasty and a few grams of carbs means less protein used up for gluconeogenesis. Plus the Vitamin C aids in collagen production.

N-AC is still on my list of things that appear to work but I haven't run enough tests. So far, though, I seem to be getting very good results in repairing sun damage on my skin - all of the little issues are just starting to fade away. The theory is that it recharges your used up glutothione - which is the immune system powerhouse for things like colds, anti-cancer, tangled proteins and processing the second stage of alcohol consumption.

I've had nothing but good results from using HC. I get about half of my daily protein from collagen - which roughly matches our body content. Wounds heal almost overnight. I never get tendonitis from working out anymore. Joints seem to be able to keep up with muscle mass. I jokingly refer to my collagen as Adamantium as it seems to build an indestructible substructure. The salt is just for flavor. I like salt.

Don wrote: ↑Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:10 am
Where do you go for #8?

Hey
My girlfriend meets up with me somewhere in the world about once a month for a week or so. Other than that, I'm on my own...

Mark,

Currently experiencing 2 months of tendinitis from weights. Feels like the elbow joint involved, too.

I’ve had this issue on and off since age 15. A suggestion asserts this injury is a collection of micro tears subsequent to the original injury. This bout of tendinitis has lasted longer than the other episodes. I was casual about the situation but now, not so. Rest has improved things but....

I would like to mention HC to my nutrition/health person. Is HC widely known? I see a lot of collagen products out there.

As I enter the last week of a 24 day visit to Europe, lifting a couple of rolling suitcases into the train overhead has been less restful for the injury. I will be back for another 3 weeks of Euro adventures in April. A happy, tendinitis-free joint would be a plus.

Thanks.

bedraggled wrote: ↑Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:20 am Mark,

Currently experiencing 2 months of tendinitis from weights. Feels like the elbow joint involved, too.

Different strokes (heh) for different folks. Maybe you should get a girlfriend or reduce your frequency.

Oh, you said weights, not eights.

bedraggled wrote: ↑Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:20 am Mark,

Currently experiencing 2 months of tendinitis from weights. Feels like the elbow joint involved, too.

I’ve had this issue on and off since age 15. A suggestion asserts this injury is a collection of micro tears subsequent to the original injury. This bout of tendinitis has lasted longer than the other episodes. I was casual about the situation but now, not so. Rest has improved things but....

I would like to mention HC to my nutrition/health person. Is HC widely known? I see a lot of collagen products out there.

As I enter the last week of a 24 day visit to Europe, lifting a couple of rolling suitcases into the train overhead has been less restful for the injury. I will be back for another 3 weeks of Euro adventures in April. A happy, tendinitis-free joint would be a plus.

Thanks.

Yea.. I've had that a couple of times in the past. Not fun carrying luggage or opening heavy doors. Over time, I've become a big believer in the Mark Rippetoe approach to tendinitis. He claims that resting never heals it. It just stops hurting a bit until you use it again. You have to force it heal. Different approaches for different joints, but his protocol for golfer or tennis elbow is:

Once every 5 days or so, do 20 sets of 2 bodyweight chins - spaced a minute or two apart. Over the course of 3 to 5 weeks build up to 30 sets of 5 reps.

Obviously, you would tailor that to your own ability, but it gives you a flavor of the kind of stress that will get the actual healing started. May even apply to Kriegsspiel's scenario

It hurts. Rippetoe suggests ibuprofen, but I've never tried it.

My own opinion is that for an older person like me, collagen is essential to aid the recovery and I use a huge amount (50 grams/day). I really don't have a clue as to how Hydrolyzed Collagen is viewed by health professionals. There are a lot of decent studies on PubMed, but that doesn't really tell you how it is seen in the industry.

Best of luck bedraggled - whatever you end up doing. If you find some path that works, I'd be interested in hearing about.

Mark

MangoMan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:56 pm Mark,
When you say Rippetoe chins, are we talking about an underhand grip slightly less than shoulder width apart?

I have had both tennis and golf elbow. Ibuprofen helps, but the only thing that gets rid of acute tendinitis for me is lots and lots of icing. As I have aged to 59, I have developed more chronic tendinitis in a couple of spots. Rest seems to help, ice, too. I just ordered HC based on your anecdotal results to see if that has any benefit. Can't hurt, might help. Thanks for the recommendation.

Btw, as far as your original diet of yolks, steak and wine:
I assume you are talking red wine? And you don't eat any vegetables/salad with dinner?

Chins : Yes, exactly. Supinated grip at whatever width works for you.

Wine: Yes, I drink mostly red wine - because I like it. But alcohol is complicated. Sure, avoid beer and sweet mixers, but I've never fully bought into any health benefits from the small amount of resveratrol in red wine. When I drink it will usually be a red wine or a dry prosecco or a nice sipping rum or a bourbon. But I drink for the social aspect and the Ballmer Peak.

https://xkcd.com/323/

After really looking at what happens when you metabolize alcohol, there is no solid health benefit argument. Yes some resvertrol is an anti-oxidant. Yes, alcohol changes (improves?) your insulin sensitivity. Yes, moderate alcohol consumption correlates with a higher all cause life expectancy. But in reality acetaldehyde (second stage of alcohol metabolism) is really nasty stuff - and you can't argue that processing it is healthy in any way.

I still drink wine or rum or bourbon with my steak. I eat a full meal once a day - usually at a bar and the social aspect is really good for me. And I write very good draft material when I'm between about .05 and .07 BAC. And there are some hacks you can do with the empty calories from alcohol that you can't do with empty calories from carbohydrates.

Veggies: No I don't do any sides or veggies with my evening meal. I'm pretty neutral on them though. In general plants that don't have too many calories are a No op. Eat them if you like them, don't if you don't. There is no real nutrition in them - at least compared to eggs and cream and steak and paté. I'm no fan of greens but I do like some horseradish or hot peppers or maybe a pickle or some kraut. But they don't add anything nutritionally. Plants with calories either have carbs or fats. There, you have to pick and choose...

Well, that was pretty rambling. Sorry about that. Best of luck on your tendinitis Pugchief.

Mark

I know that Bryan Haycock, who developed the hypertrophy specific training method, said that the high rep part of the program was good for tendonitis and general aches and pains, because of the restorative effects of lactic acid, but I never looked much into it. That said, doing light weights for high reps/full ROM feels good. That's what they do in physical therapy, anyways.

A question to all, and please realize this all stems from mental conditioning when I was a fat kid.

If I eat "normal" meaning don't worry about carbs, chocolate, etc, my weight will vary between about 197 and 204 depending on time of year.

If I eat lo carb/Keto, my weight ranges 194-198. This is after 2 months of Keto. Has happened similarly 5+ times over the past 3 years.

I am a little nuts (pun) about peanut butter, which probably routinely puts me high on the calorie side regardless of keto or not.

So...how does someone determine their goal weight? I don't feel fat, my joints are good, my clothes fit fine, I am 6'3", yet mentally I want my weight to be 185-190. Always, tantalizingly out of reach. I hit 189 a couple years ago for a short amount of time, but my body always wants to reset to the higher 190s. It has been unbreakable for 10+ years. Should I stop trying to break it? Why do I want to break it?

Crazy mental shit. I certainly never starve myself to get there, but I am also quietly unhappy I can't get there. I'll get off the therapist couch now.

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:47 pmmy weight will vary between about 197 and 204

If I eat lo carb/Keto, my weight ranges 194-198. This is after 2 months of Keto. Has happened similarly 5+ times over the past 3 years.

Losing a few pounds of water weight is normal on ketogenic diets; your levels of muscle glycogen are lower, and a few molecules of water are attached to each molecule of glycogen. So even if you maintain your lean body mass and fat weight, you'll see a few pounds drop off the scale. Swings of 6-10 pounds over a 3 year period is pretty much meaningless unless it's accompanied by big changes in body composition.

I am a little nuts (pun) about peanut butter, which probably routinely puts me high on the calorie side regardless of keto or not.

So is Rich Frohning, a very impressive Crossfit guy:


He talks about it in that article I linked to. I remember watching a doc on him where he just crushes milk and PB & J out of a bowl all day. Peanut butter rules.

I don't feel fat, my joints are good, my clothes fit fine, I am 6'3", yet mentally I want my weight to be 185-190. Always, tantalizingly out of reach. I hit 189 a couple years ago for a short amount of time, but my body always wants to reset to the higher 190s. It has been unbreakable for 10+ years. Should I stop trying to break it? Why do I want to break it?

Crazy mental shit. I certainly never starve myself to get there, but I am also quietly unhappy I can't get there. I'll get off the therapist couch now.

... I dunno man. Is it too simple to say stop giving a shit? Tell yourself your new goal is to put on 5 pounds of muscle and be a leaner 195.

So...how does someone determine their goal weight?

This calculator seems valid as far as estimating your potential weight at different levels of fatness.

Rich Froning works out more in a day than I do in a month, and eats more carbs in a day than I do in about 2 weeks. Hard to make a comparison, but thanks.

BMI range is normal, but at the high end. Waist to hip ratio is ok, waist to height is ok. I am easily in the acceptable range for body fat %.

Various other calculators show me at a perfectly fine weight for my frame size (~medium).

Maybe time to stop giving a shit.

This is an interesting calculator that hits the nail on the head for the way I think about weight.

https://halls.md/ideal-weight/body.htm

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:35 pm Rich Froning works out more in a day than I do in a month, and eats more carbs in a day than I do in about 2 weeks. Hard to make a comparison, but thanks.

He was definitely not included for comparison, he's kind of a freak. You should work out more often though. Can you at least cram as much PB as he does?

BMI range is normal, but at the high end. Waist to hip ratio is ok, waist to height is ok. I am easily in the acceptable range for body fat %.

Various other calculators show me at a perfectly fine weight for my frame size (~medium).

This is an interesting calculator that hits the nail on the head for the way I think about weight.

https://halls.md/ideal-weight/body.htm

Maybe time to stop giving a shit.

Glad I could help

I dislike weightlifting, one of the reasons I quit football in high school.

The biking I do gets me into theoretical fat burning heart rate zone, I don’t go for crazy sprint speeds. Heart about 130 to 150 max.

Something I noticed, since I've always been a space buff and I've been reading and looking at a lot of archive videos and books and magazines from Apollo.

Look at the crowds watching the Apollo launches. Look at the workers. Look at the mission control people.

Find me an overweight/obese one. Bet you can't.

Grains, sugar and vegetable oils. I don't think it's because they exercised more or smoked or drank less or ate less meat!

I have a friend, my age, who I see once a year. Last Thanksgiving, told me he had diabetes and was taking medication (52). I sent him some lo carb/sugar/keto related links. He's lost 70 pounds and is off meds, mainly by just cutting out sugar.

It frustrates me to no end to see what's happening to this aspect of our society, and seeing all the medicine commercials on TV especially bothers me. A relative who died young a few years ago (early 60s) literally told me, hey, I can eat whatever I want, then I just have to take a pill (diabetes).

Yup, I have no doubt that the introduction of low fat processed foods and the promotion of grain products was a major trigger, plus companies really started getting good at sneaking sugar into everything to cut costs. I recently started a keto diet (trying to shed those postmenopausal pounds) and went through the cabinets looking for contraband. I was amazed at how many things contained sugar. I even found it in olives and gourmet chipotle mayonnaise. And I thought I was pretty good at avoiding the stuff!

If you look at the most recent Dietary Guidelines document (2015), there is a subtle shift to demonizing saturated fats and simple sugars. There is no longer a maximum recommended intake of fats, only saturated fats (10% of calories). But, the document promotes grains (complex carbohydrates), lean meats, defatted dairy (no fat or 1% milk), and vegetable oils. And, it was pretty disheartening to read statements in the "science behind these recommendations" sections that were blatantly untrue, or at best misleading (e.g. "saturated fats have been repeatedly shown to cause heart disease"). Keto dieters who have reversed type 2 diabetes would laugh at this...

In honor of this I plan to get some pork shoulder and lard, and make sausages this weekend!

WiseOne wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:43 am In honor of this I plan to get some pork shoulder and lard, and make sausages this weekend!

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:41 am

WiseOne wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:43 am In honor of this I plan to get some pork shoulder and lard, and make sausages this weekend!

What time should we come over??

WiseOne wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:43 am If you look at the most recent Dietary Guidelines document (2015), there is a subtle shift to demonizing saturated fats and simple sugars. There is no longer a maximum recommended intake of fats, only saturated fats (10% of calories). But, the document promotes grains (complex carbohydrates), lean meats, defatted dairy (no fat or 1% milk), and vegetable oils.

You're saying that like it's a bad thing? Lean meats and low fat dairy (if you can process lactose, obviously) are great! Vegetable oils like coconut and olive seem ok, I don't use them though. Even grains aren't evil. It's tough to get fat eating oatmeal.

In honor of this I plan to get some pork shoulder and lard, and make sausages this weekend!

Mmmmmmmmm. I have a pork shoulder in the freezer that I'm gonna make this week. Sound the feasting horn!

Before I get at that pork though, I'm going to make some beef and corn soup with some of the corn I grew in my backyard. Even corn is tough to overeat in it's unprocessed form. It's pretty similar to oatmeal, with slightly more carbs and calories.

They specifically excluded tropical oils from "vegetable oils".

It is about demonizing. A message about "moderation" and advice to limit sugar and processed foods would have been more useful, but I guess politically unpalatable. I'm surprised that the saturated fat message didn't get more protest, but I guess the promoting of lean meats got them past that. And while you may not get fat on grains, some people do. Even whole grains are still too much for some (me, for example).

Nothing wrong with lean meats, it's just that non-lean meats are good too. Not to mention that you can't get lean meats separately from the non-lean cuts, so what's supposed to happen to those?? Similarly, what happens to the fat skimmed off milk?

C'mon over anytime! Homemade sausage turns out to be super simple, yummy, and about 1/3 the price of pre-made stuff (that doesn't taste like cardboard).

WiseOne wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:31 am They specifically excluded tropical oils from "vegetable oils".

Oh ok.

It is about demonizing. A message about "moderation" and advice to limit sugar and processed foods would have been more useful, but I guess politically unpalatable. I'm surprised that the saturated fat message didn't get more protest, but I guess the promoting of lean meats got them past that. And while you may not get fat on grains, some people do. Even whole grains are still too much for some (me, for example).

It's funny they keep putting out their recommendations. Everybody knows people are gonna keep pounding down pizza and Oreos.

Nothing wrong with lean meats, it's just that non-lean meats are good too.

Yes, quite true.

Not to mention that you can't get lean meats separately from the non-lean cuts, so what's supposed to happen to those??

The people who want them will buy them? Hopefully cheaper, since people might not want them! I was listening to a podcast with a butcher, and he talked about how back in the day a particular cut of beef (can't remember which) was practically given away since nobody wanted it. Then it got popular and expensive. I guess this happens regularly. The meat industry is so efficient.

Similarly, what happens to the fat skimmed off milk?

Doesn't it get sold as heavy cream? EDIT and butter?

C'mon over anytime!

How nice

WiseOne wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:31 am [W]hat happens to the fat skimmed off milk?

WiseOne, now that you've tackled indoor farming, you really have to try making your own dairy products. I get my milk straight from the cow, but even store-bought raw or unhomogenized milk will work. It's so quick and easy, and from one gallon of whole milk you get a whole array of milk products for the week.

I generally buy milk by the gallon, and I immediately use about half of it for yogurt. Simply scald on the stove, cool to "baby bottle" temperature, pour into a quart mason jar, whisk in a dollop of culture (any fresh, live yogurt), and tuck away in a warm place for 8-12 hours. (I use a shelf on the wood cookstove in the winter, but I have successfully used a crock pot sans lid, and the top of a water heater.) That's Product No. 1.

I let the remaining half-gallon of milk sit in the refir for a half a day so that the cream separates to the top. I then ladle off the cream--two thirds into a quart mason jar (for butter) and a third into a pint mason jar (for sour cream). I commence vigorously shaking the larger, cream-filled mason jar for 5-10 minutes, past the "whipped cream" stage, and past the point where a discernible ball of butter has become noticeable. When there is a big, well-formed lump of butter sloshing around in a watery medium, I decant off the buttermilk (Product No. 2)--to later be used in whatever baking project I've got going. I take the lump of butter, knead salt into it, and form it into bars (Product No. 3).

I then take the pint jar of cream and set it in a warm place overnight. The shelf on a wood stove works great, but really any warm place will work. In the morning, you have a very nice batch of sour cream (Product No. 4).

All that takes only about 20 minutes. It's kind of a kick to get so many different things from one gallon of milk.

Homemade sausage turns out to be super simple, yummy, and about 1/3 the price of pre-made stuff (that doesn't taste like cardboard).

Please tell us how!

Wow, Maddy, that is awesome. You are a super hero! I felt like I was reading a chapter from Little House on the Prairie, and I mean that in the best way possible.

I was buying raw milk for a while, and seriously, it is outstanding, not just taste wise, but in how it made me feel. And this is from a guy who is somewhat lactose intolerant in regard to pasteurized milk. Right now, I'm trying dairy free to see if that helps me feel better and lose a few pounds, but if I do go back to dairy, I need to remember to make the effort to get the raw milk. Fortunately, we do have a local dairy that sells raw milk, despite the state regulators constantly giving them grief. The stuff isn't cheap. It's like two or three times the price of pasteurized milk, but totally worth it. If I do go back, maybe I'll be inspired by your post to make all those great products that you listed.

Yes, WiseOne, please tell us how to make the sausage.

Raw milk and sausage, now those are the types of "supplements" that I can support.

MangoMan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:31 pm WiseOne,

RE: oils & fats.......What is considered bad/good? And is the answer based on published research in, say, NEJM or similar? EV Olive oil is considered good by virtually all sources. But what about:

Butter?
Lard?
Coconut oil?
Palm Oil?
Canola Oil?
Corn Oil?
Soybean ('vegetable') oil?

Butter, Lard, coconut, palm: good.

Rest bad.

But, can I elaborate on that greatly? No. Something about un-natural processing to make canola/corn/soybean oil and high Omega 6 concentrations in them.

------A link to why canola is not good:

https://heartmdinstitute.com/diet-nutri ... anola-oil/

Maddy that is an awesome system!! Your post is pasted into my recipe book.

Sausage is dead simple!!!! You can make it with ground pork from the grocery, but then it comes out hard (but still delicious). To do it properly you need a meat grinder. I got a KitchenAid mixer attachment. Get pork shoulder or butt, which is usually a cheap cut, and some type of pork fat. Back fat is supposed to be best, but I haven't put in the legwork needed to find it. Lard does fine plus I use saved bacon fat. You want sausage to be somewhere between 10-20% fat by weight. Put the meat & fat through the grinder (helps if both are slightly frozen), then add salt and spice mix, mix well (use your hands, or I let my KitchenAid do the work). I don't bother stuffing into casings, I just roll into balls. I freeze these in a pan until hard, then store in a freezer bag. I might try the casings one day and see if that's worth the trouble, but I'm quite happy cooking sausage in patty or meatball form.

Check out this website for spice mixes: http://www.sausagemania.com/recipes.html. Warning, to my taste they use too much salt. My favorite mix, per pound of sausage mix, is: 1 tsp salt, 1/2 tsp black pepper, 1/4 tsp crushed red pepper flakes, 1 crushed or minced garlic clove, 1/2 tsp sage, and 1/8 tsp nutmeg.

Re health impact of fats - I agree with Cortopassi. The question isn't whether there's data to say a particular fat is good, it's that there's no strong data to support the stance that a particular type of fat is bad. The studies are mainly observational/correlative, which is worthless. Consider the history of hormone replacement therapy for primary prevention of heart disease: first there were reams of correlative studies that "proved" that HRT reduced heart disease risk by as much as 50%, which would blow statins and just about any other modifiable risk factor out of the water. So lots of women were put on HRT for this reason alone. Then WHI came along with a prospective, double-blind, randomized controlled trial. This study was stopped early when it became clear that HRT actually INCREASED heart disease risk. And so it goes for pretty much any intervention aimed at primary prevention. Apart from controlling type 2 diabetes, NOTHING, including aspirin or cholesterol lowering agents, has managed to show an overall positive benefit when rigorously tested. Different story for secondary prevention, but even there the benefit is minimal (something like 1% chance that an individual will benefit from a treatment).