The Permanent Supplement Regime

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jacksonM
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by jacksonM » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:23 am

Kbg wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:08 am
It's incredibly hard if not impossible to find nutrition data you can use...it sucks. I get it that as new studies come out things change, but a "here is the current consensus on X" kinda website would be awesome.
Given that the "current consensus" on nutrition led to the obesity epidemic I don't think I would put much stock in a website like that. One of my go to guys for nutritional information is Dr. Ken Berry. He's the author of a book called "Lies my doctor told me".

I've gotten to the point where I put more stock in anecdotal evidence than I do so-called "studies" because they have so often been shown to have hidden agendas. And also the actual findings of the study don't always line up with the click-bait headline version upon further investigation.

I'm currently following the ketogenic diet with daily fasting. I've dropped 50 lbs from my peak weight and I'm feeling great @ almost 70.
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Cortopassi
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:25 am

I've been Keto/Paleo on and off for the past couple years.

On it again since Jan 1, so this is a month again for me.

I have dropped 8 pounds and joints feel good.

There's always something that knocks me off the wagon. However, each successive time I feel more inclined to stay on, esp. as I watch the older generation get older and deal with health issues.

I kind of went off on my cousin at a birthday party last weekend when we were discussing the type of creamer she puts in her coffee (mainly sugar/HFCS) and that her doctor tells her that if you're going to eat sugar, Turbinado sugar is better for you.

When I told her all I put in my coffee was heavy cream, her eyes got wide. The aversion to fat is still strong in society, but getting better.

jacksonM, yes, real world data from normal humans changing their diet and seeing real results is much better than studies. A huge benefit of the internet.
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Kriegsspiel
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:36 am

Keep in mind that studies aren't created equal. Metabolic chamber studies are a lot more useful than self-reported data. But really, just look at people who need to have their nutrition figured out, like bodybuilders, athletes, etc.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by pugchief » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:45 am

Don wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:10 am
Mark Leavy wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:08 pm

Late day...

8 ) Some sort of sex.
Where do you go for #8?
;D
I thought about adding that to my list of questions for Mark, but thought it would be too Frugal-worthy.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by flyingpylon » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:11 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:25 am
I've been Keto/Paleo on and off for the past couple years.
I like to avoid unnecessary volatility with a strategy I call "Half-Assed Paleo". ;D

It's kind of a mix of low-carb and cognitive dissonance.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by jacksonM » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:08 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:11 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:25 am
I've been Keto/Paleo on and off for the past couple years.
I like to avoid unnecessary volatility with a strategy I call "Half-Assed Paleo". ;D

It's kind of a mix of low-carb and cognitive dissonance.
I think any diet will work for weight loss in the short term, and even in the long term if you can follow it strictly enough. The real question is how sustainable is it? Jillian Michaels of "The biggest loser" fame has just made some videos critical of the ketogenic diet. She says her standard method of caloric restriction while eating six meals a deal, including lots of whole grain foods, and lots of exercise is the way to go but all you have to do to debunk her claims is listen to the "biggest losers" that have regained all the weight and then some.

It does take some effort and ingenuity to go keto/low carb/paleo but I've found it to be highly sustainable. I think this is because you can actually eat and feel full. Show me a steak and a donut and I'll go for the steak every time.
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Cortopassi
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:12 pm

I agree. It always takes a few days, but sugar cravings go away pretty fast, and when there are sweets around it gets easier and easier to say no.

One thing I do miss is eating half a bag of some good salty BBQ potato chips....
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Mark Leavy
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:13 am

pugchief wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:03 am
-Why don't you want the egg whites (protein) after lifting weights?
-Is the HC for your joints? Would the addition of the egg whites be too much protein?
-That seems like an awful lot of salt....
-What specifically are you hoping to gain via the N-AC? The studies don't seem that conclusive.
Egg whites are great protein if you cook them, but it's simpler to just drink the yolks. Uncooked whites bind the biotin in the yolks. Also, between the collagen and the steak, I get enough protein. I drink the yolks as my multi-vitamin. I don't eat much organ meat, muscle meat is tasty but a bit deficient. Egg yolks supply all of the other things that make up a whole living being. Mixing in a bit of OJ makes them quite tasty and a few grams of carbs means less protein used up for gluconeogenesis. Plus the Vitamin C aids in collagen production.

N-AC is still on my list of things that appear to work but I haven't run enough tests. So far, though, I seem to be getting very good results in repairing sun damage on my skin - all of the little issues are just starting to fade away. The theory is that it recharges your used up glutothione - which is the immune system powerhouse for things like colds, anti-cancer, tangled proteins and processing the second stage of alcohol consumption.

I've had nothing but good results from using HC. I get about half of my daily protein from collagen - which roughly matches our body content. Wounds heal almost overnight. I never get tendonitis from working out anymore. Joints seem to be able to keep up with muscle mass. I jokingly refer to my collagen as Adamantium as it seems to build an indestructible substructure. The salt is just for flavor. I like salt.
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Mark Leavy
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:15 am

Don wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:10 am

Where do you go for #8?
Hey :)
My girlfriend meets up with me somewhere in the world about once a month for a week or so. Other than that, I'm on my own...
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by bedraggled » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:20 am

Mark,

Currently experiencing 2 months of tendinitis from weights. Feels like the elbow joint involved, too.

I’ve had this issue on and off since age 15. A suggestion asserts this injury is a collection of micro tears subsequent to the original injury. This bout of tendinitis has lasted longer than the other episodes. I was casual about the situation but now, not so. Rest has improved things but....

I would like to mention HC to my nutrition/health person. Is HC widely known? I see a lot of collagen products out there.

As I enter the last week of a 24 day visit to Europe, lifting a couple of rolling suitcases into the train overhead has been less restful for the injury. I will be back for another 3 weeks of Euro adventures in April. A happy, tendinitis-free joint would be a plus.

Thanks.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:00 am

bedraggled wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:20 am
Mark,

Currently experiencing 2 months of tendinitis from weights. Feels like the elbow joint involved, too.
Different strokes (heh) for different folks. Maybe you should get a girlfriend or reduce your frequency.

Oh, you said weights, not eights.
All of humanity’s problems with coronavirus stem from a man’s inability to sit quietly in a room alone.
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Mark Leavy
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:43 pm

bedraggled wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:20 am
Mark,

Currently experiencing 2 months of tendinitis from weights. Feels like the elbow joint involved, too.

I’ve had this issue on and off since age 15. A suggestion asserts this injury is a collection of micro tears subsequent to the original injury. This bout of tendinitis has lasted longer than the other episodes. I was casual about the situation but now, not so. Rest has improved things but....

I would like to mention HC to my nutrition/health person. Is HC widely known? I see a lot of collagen products out there.

As I enter the last week of a 24 day visit to Europe, lifting a couple of rolling suitcases into the train overhead has been less restful for the injury. I will be back for another 3 weeks of Euro adventures in April. A happy, tendinitis-free joint would be a plus.

Thanks.
Yea.. I've had that a couple of times in the past. Not fun carrying luggage or opening heavy doors. Over time, I've become a big believer in the Mark Rippetoe approach to tendinitis. He claims that resting never heals it. It just stops hurting a bit until you use it again. You have to force it heal. Different approaches for different joints, but his protocol for golfer or tennis elbow is:

Once every 5 days or so, do 20 sets of 2 bodyweight chins - spaced a minute or two apart. Over the course of 3 to 5 weeks build up to 30 sets of 5 reps.

Obviously, you would tailor that to your own ability, but it gives you a flavor of the kind of stress that will get the actual healing started. May even apply to Kriegsspiel's scenario :)

It hurts. Rippetoe suggests ibuprofen, but I've never tried it.

My own opinion is that for an older person like me, collagen is essential to aid the recovery and I use a huge amount (50 grams/day). I really don't have a clue as to how Hydrolyzed Collagen is viewed by health professionals. There are a lot of decent studies on PubMed, but that doesn't really tell you how it is seen in the industry.

Best of luck bedraggled - whatever you end up doing. If you find some path that works, I'd be interested in hearing about.

Mark
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