Gyroscopic Investing

moda0306 wrote: I use My Fitness Pal to track my food intake, including certain micronutrients, and usually end up with 1/3 of my recommended daily dose of potassium.

Ah very cool. I used this back in the day when it wasn't as fancy:

https://cronometer.com/

But I got tired of measuring things.

Started using "No Salt."

Thanks for the advice!

By the way, I used to eat cereal all the time, and I have a question.... I realize there are a lot of grainy/sugary/dairy-y reasons to not like cereal, but I rarely hear from anti-cereal folks even the slightest credit given to the fact that they are vitamin & mineral fortified.  I realize supplements are NOT perfect, and in the case of iron and others, can sometimes be dangerous, but I notice that when I take my multivitamin, even with lots of food, my urine turns colors.  My Total Raisin Bran never did that to me, nor did it taste funny.  Does anyone here want to comment on vitamin/mineral fortification in foods?  Is it better/worse than just taking a multivitamin with a fatty meal?

I'd prefer my food to not be fortified and to supplement myself. I think foods are fortified as more of a public health issue.

i am drawing a blank on the details, but i saw a connection being made between obesity epidemics and food fortification somewhere,  the correlation (not necessarily causation) appeared pretty strong with the evidence given...

It was iron fortification!

Pointedstick wrote: It was iron fortification!

thanks...  suffering from post holiday brain fog (i bet it was a discussion i saw here too --duh)

There was some recent discussion about Berberine and Metformin, I thought under this subject, but I couldn't find it.  However, I want to put this info out there.  It's from Jenny Ruhl's blog on managing diabetes, Blood Sugar 101.  The info doesn't seem to be there anymore, but I printed it out when I first saw it because my doc was suggesting I get off Metformin and start taking Berberine.  (Because all things Asian are so cool.)

FDA/NCTA [National Center for Toxicology Research] scientists in collaboration with Shanghai Institute for Food and Drug Control (China) have shown that goldenseal and one of its major alkaloid constitutents,  Berberine, are potent producers of DNA damage in in vitro human cell cultures.  In cells treated with goldenseal, the extent of DNA damage was correlated to the Berberine content and was directly associated with inhibition of topoisomerase II (an essential enzyme for DNA replication).  Goldenseal . . . was shown to increase liver tumors in rodents in a National Toxicology Program two-year carcinogenicity study.  However, the mechanism for liver carcinogenity was not determined in this study [but see below re incretin drugs].  ... In addition, DNA damage was also observed in cells treated with commercially available goldenseal extracts and the extent of DNA damage was positively correlated to the berberine content. 

A commenter on the blog noted that Berberine is thought to mimic the incretin effect. [Whatever that is; I didn't research it]  Ruhl replied "If it really mimics the incretin effect, you have to hope it isn't doing what we now know the incretin drugs are doing:  growing highly abnormal alpha and beta cells in the pancreas including tiny adenoma tumors.  ...What studies are cited for Berberine are published in marginal journals, some of which may be the kind you can get any paper into if you pay a fee.  Supplement sellers routinely fund this kind of research. . . .  Remember that there is NO legal requirement that supplement bottles contain the label says they contain.  The FDA only intervenes after someone dies . . . ." 

She also comments, Why not stick with cheap, generic, effective metformin?  I would say also, if you haven't done it already why not buy a cheap glucomenter from Walmart and start testing after every meal and just reduce carbohydrates as needed to get to normal post-prandial numbers and to an A1c in the 5's.  If reducing carbs doesn't work, go for metformin  in conjunction with low carb. 

If metformin causes gastro distress you can try the non-generic form Glucophage, but it's expensive. What worked for me was to get the lowest dose generic pill in the non-extended release form so I could cut it half.  Took 1/2 tab every third day until I felt no discomfort.  Very slowly decreased time between and then increased the dose.  Took a while but it was worth it.  some people think that metformin works by altering gut biome, thus the discomfort while you adapt. Once adapted you can use the extended release form. 

Test B12 levels and supplement if they get low, or eat liver once a week. Other offal and oysters are good sources too. 

You can find the abstract of this study in Toxicology Letters (2013; 221: 64-72)
For additional info,contact Lei Guo, Division of Biochemical Toxicology, FDA/NCTR. 

Dozha wrote:
FDA/NCTA [National Center for Toxicology Research] scientists in collaboration with Shanghai Institute for Food and Drug Control (China) have shown that goldenseal and one of its major alkaloid constitutents,  Berberine, are potent producers of DNA damage in in vitro human cell cultures.

Lots of things cause cancer in cell cultures which don't in humans to the point studies on cell culture are useless for this purpose.  Don't believe me, look up berberine at examine.com a site which is very well done and which tabulates all the studies on any given topic and reviews what is and is not supported by the data.

The posts you are looking for are in this subforum in a thread about metformin

Excellent Frontline program on supplements aired tonight -- when is Frontline not excellent? --
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/artic ... he-bottle/

dualstow wrote: Excellent Frontline program on supplements aired tonight -- when is Frontline not excellent? --
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/artic ... he-bottle/

"...tough questions about how vitamins and supplements are marketed and regulated, and examines how it’s often hard to know what’s really in the bottles you’re buying."

These comments are repeated regularly by the media.  Perhaps if you buy supps in the drugstrore, but if you buy  any number of high quality supps e.g. jarrow is one good brand, this is not true.

There is certainly a vendetta against supplement use.

Reub wrote: There is certainly a vendetta against supplement use.

I swear to God you're my dad. He just emailed a response including "f the New York Times and PBS anyway."
I'm going to get to the bottom of this.

dualstow wrote:

Reub wrote: There is certainly a vendetta against supplement use.

I swear to God you're my dad. He just emailed a response including "f the New York Times and PBS anyway."
I'm going to get to the bottom of this.

Dealstow,

It is likely we've had this same conversation before.  Search the board and MG and I have probably chimed in with a number of brands that are reliable.

Yes, it does sound familiar, Beanko.

For what it's worth, one of the guys in the documentary who was investigating fraud is himself a big believer in supplements. And I myself am not a disbeliever. I am just suspicious of the people who put the pills together in the first place. Why? Because it's unregulated in the States. I realize that this is a very libertarian forum, but I like the idea of someone watching the vitamin makers since I don't have a lab to see what's in my pills.

As it happens, I bought my first vitamins in a long time last week. The brand is Rainbow Light. I figured there were enough reviews and enough time had passed that there probably aren't steroids or ragweed in the pills. One Amazon reviewer even put the pills in a device called a "stomacher" at work to see if they broke down properly. They did.

My parents take fish oil pills, and I am not about to stop them. Still, it was a bit disconcerting to learn how quickly the oil can go rancid if oxygen gets in once the anchovies are crushed. (Shrug).

Again, I'm all for supplements. I just think a lot of people are out there willing to make a fast buck at the expense of our dollars at the least, and our health at the worst. And if they aren't regulated, who's to stop them?

dualstow wrote:

Reub wrote: There is certainly a vendetta against supplement use.

I swear to God you're my dad. He just emailed a response including "f the New York Times and PBS anyway."
I'm going to get to the bottom of this.

Now go to your room or I'll cut you out of my will for sure!

Reub wrote: Now go to your room or I'll cut you out of my will for sure!

Sounds like someone's a little low on Riboflavin..

dualstow wrote:

Reub wrote: Now go to your room or I'll cut you out of my will for sure!

Sounds like someone's a little low on Riboflavin..

You mean reuboflavin?

MediumTex wrote: You mean reuboflavin?

Ahhahahhaaha! 

I might have to patent that word for later use.

moda0306 wrote: I've been noticing that I'm chronically deficient in potassium intake, even if I have two bananas and some potatoes, which is not the case every day (very rarely in fact).

Anyone have any advice on how to get more?  Just buy a supplement?  Oddly, it isn't in my multivitamin.

Search for The Permanent Rehydration Water thread or something.  That's how I deal with it after trying various methods (2 cups upon wakeup and another 2C before the sauna).  Potassium is some nasty tasting stuff to use as a salt substitute and it really doesn't work.

moda0306 wrote: By the way, I used to eat cereal all the time, and I have a question.... I realize there are a lot of grainy/sugary/dairy-y reasons to not like cereal, but I rarely hear from anti-cereal folks even the slightest credit given to the fact that they are vitamin & mineral fortified.  I realize supplements are NOT perfect, and in the case of iron and others, can sometimes be dangerous, but I notice that when I take my multivitamin, even with lots of food, my urine turns colors.  My Total Raisin Bran never did that to me, nor did it taste funny.  Does anyone here want to comment on vitamin/mineral fortification in foods?  Is it better/worse than just taking a multivitamin with a fatty meal?

It's garbage/junx unbonded/unchelated synthetic vitamins and inorganic minerals.  Not even remotely what is in a real food matrix.  Also, sometimes they only dose to a fraction of the RDA compared to a multi-vitamin/mineral.  The RDA is a joke to begin with but a fraction might as well be fairy dust.

Dozha wrote: FDA/NCTA [National Center for Toxicology Research] scientists in collaboration with Shanghai Institute for Food and Drug Control (China) have shown that goldenseal and one of its major alkaloid constitutents,  Berberine, are potent producers of DNA damage in in vitro human cell cultures.  In cells treated with goldenseal, the extent of DNA damage was correlated to the Berberine content and was directly associated with inhibition of topoisomerase II (an essential enzyme for DNA replication).  Goldenseal . . . was shown to increase liver tumors in rodents in a National Toxicology Program two-year carcinogenicity study.  However, the mechanism for liver carcinogenity was not determined in this study [but see below re incretin drugs].  ... In addition, DNA damage was also observed in cells treated with commercially available goldenseal extracts and the extent of DNA damage was positively correlated to the berberine content.

In vitro testing is worthless.

A few years in Australia ago there was a study showing that alcohol in mouthwash caused cancer to in vitro isolated human cell cheek cultures or something to that effect.  The study funders just happened to be a new competitor to Listerine.   Naturally, this got spread around by the boobs that Listerine causes cancer and hence a new urban legend was created.

So same B.S., different year.  Publish or perish.

dualstow wrote: Excellent Frontline program on supplements aired tonight -- when is Frontline not excellent? --
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/artic ... he-bottle/

When it is one-sided propaganda authored and funded by Big Pharma -- which it was in this case.

dualstow wrote: myself am not a disbeliever. I am just suspicious of the people who put the pills together in the first place. Why? Because it's unregulated in the States. I realize that this is a very libertarian forum, but I like the idea of someone watching the vitamin makers since I don't have a lab to see what's in my pills.

Ught.  It's NOT unregulated.  It's regulated under the DSHEA of 1994.  The major difference is FDA pre-approval to the tune of $1 billion and 10 years of trials is not first required to demonstrate efficacy.  The FDA has full legal authority to take ANY supplement off the market if it is mislabeled, adultered, unsafe or does not follow stringent cGMP.

Stop spreading lies because this is what anti-supplement proponents do.  You know, the crony idiots in Big Pharma's pockets like mandatory vaccination proponent Dr. [Pr]Offit?

dualstow wrote: Again, I'm all for supplements. I just think a lot of people are out there willing to make a fast buck at the expense of our dollars at the least, and our health at the worst. And if they aren't regulated, who's to stop them?

BTW, how well is your regulation working out for you with Big Pharma?  There's bad apples in any barrel, but the bad apples overwhelm in the Big Pharma barrel because they control the FDA via the revolving door syndrome.  Would you want supplements to fall victim to the same corruption?  I have some pretty choice words to say about that which aren't at all family friendly.