The Permanent Supplement Regime

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WiseOne
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by WiseOne » Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:17 pm

Hey Mark, that's interesting. Was it dialing up the fat at the expense of protein, or the near zero carbs?

I noticed during my weekly weigh-ins that the more fat I ate, the more the pounds dropped away & my waistline shrank - with no change in carb intake. At the beginning I thought for sure all that fat would be my undoing. Wrong!

It was just so awesome when I bought a pair of slacks for work in size 8, to replace the size 12 I'd been wearing last year at this time, only to discover it was too big and I had to exchange it for a 6! Thank you low carb lifestyle! And the USDA are a bunch of jerks trying to sell us industrial grain products by pretending they belong in the human diet.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:21 pm

deleted - duplicate
Last edited by Mark Leavy on Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:11 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:17 pm
Hey Mark, that's interesting. Was it dialing up the fat at the expense of protein, or the near zero carbs?

I noticed during my weekly weigh-ins that the more fat I ate, the more the pounds dropped away & my waistline shrank - with no change in carb intake. At the beginning I thought for sure all that fat would be my undoing. Wrong!

It was just so awesome when I bought a pair of slacks for work in size 8, to replace the size 12 I'd been wearing last year at this time, only to discover it was too big and I had to exchange it for a 6! Thank you low carb lifestyle! And the USDA are a bunch of jerks trying to sell us industrial grain products by pretending they belong in the human diet.
Definitely dialing up the fat at the expense of the protein. Palmitic and stearic acid (saturated animal fat) are great for weight loss. Protein has a small insulin response and contributes slightly to blood sugar. I wasn't looking to lose inches, but it works for that also!

Congratulations on your success! I've noticed some of your comments and have been silently cheering you on.
Mark
Last edited by Mark Leavy on Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Hal » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:29 pm

Congratulations on your dietary success.

Thought I would mention what a family member has been doing.

He has been following the Nishi diet and has been routinely staying at the Shoganji Zen Temple for the past few years.
His physical and mental health has improved dramatically.

Probably similar places in the US, but this is only a eight hour flight from northern Australia.

https://zenretreat.com/philosophy/
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:47 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:16 pm
Edit: And this may be somewhat relevant. In another thread I had mentioned that I was experimenting with an extreme ketogenic diet at the beginning of this year. 0.5 grams of animal protein per kilogram (about 35 grams of protein for me) and the rest of my calories from animal fat, mostly butter. Close to zero carbs and no alcohol. I got the ketogenic results I was looking for but after about 4 months I noticed I was losing too much muscle mass and have since added more protein back in the diet. And wine :)
Thanks for the update. This excerpt from the (now 22 year old) book The Ketogenic Diet might interest you:
The implication of the adaptations discussed above is that the body does not require
dietary carbohydrates for survival (exercise and muscle growth are a separate issue). That is,
there is no such thing as an essential dietary carbohydrate as the body can produce what little
glucose it needs from other sources.
Of course, the price paid is the loss of body protein, which will ultimately cause death if
continued for long periods of time. This loss of body protein during total starvation is
unacceptable but the above discussion only serves to show that the body goes through a series of
adaptations to conserve its protein. As we see later in this chapter, the addition of dietary
protein will maintain ketosis, while preventing the breakdown of bodily protein. In brief, rather
than break down bodily protein to produce glucose, the body will use some of the incoming dietary
protein for glucose production. This should allow maximal fat utilization while sparing protein
losses.
. . .
The breakdown of body protein during total starvation to produce glucose ultimately led
researchers to explore two distinctly different approaches to prevent this loss. The simplest
approach was to provide glucose in order to eliminate the need for protein breakdown. However,
this had a secondary effect of preventing the adaptations to ketosis. In some clinical situations
such as post-surgical trauma, providing glucose or glucose with protein caused greater protein
losses by preventing the adaptations to ketosis from occurring.
The second approach was to mimic the effects of starvation while consuming food. This
allows ketosis to develop while limiting the loss of body protein. One approach was to simply
consume high quality protein, which was called the protein sparing modified fast (PSMF).
54
After much research, it was concluded that a protein intake of 1.5-1.75 grams protein per
kilogram of ideal body weight (ideal body weight was used to approximate lean body mass) would
spare most of the nitrogen loss, especially as ketosis developed and the body’s glucose
requirements decreased. As we shall see below, providing sufficient protein from the first day of a
low-carbohydrate diet should prevent any net nitrogen loss from the body. Of all aspects of the
PSMF or ketogenic diet, adequate dietary protein is absolutely critical to the success of the diet in
maximizing fat loss and sparing body protein.
The ketogenic diet as most consider it is simply a PSMF with added dietary fat. Note that
the addition of dietary fat does not affect the adaptations or protein sparing effects of the PSMF.
Only overall fat loss is affected since dietary fat is used to provide energy instead of bodyfat.
. . .
Without going into the details of protein requirements, which are affected by activity and
are discussed in the next chapter, we can determine the minimum amount of protein which is
necessary to prevent body protein losses by looking at two factors: the amount of glucose
required by the brain, and the amount of glucose produced from the ingestion of a given amount of
dietary protein.
Both of these factors are discussed in previous chapters and a few brief calculations will
tell us how much protein is necessary. In the next section, these values are compared to a
number of diet studies to see if they are accurate.
To briefly recap, during the first weeks of ketosis, approximately 75 grams of glucose must
be produced (the other 18 grams of glucose coming from the conversion of glycerol to glucose) to
satisfy the brain’s requirements of ~100 grams of glucose per day. After approximately 3 weeks
of ketosis, the brain’s glucose requirements drop to approximately 40 grams of glucose. Of this,
18 grams are derived from the conversion of glycerol, leaving 25 grams of glucose to be made
from protein.
Since 58% of all dietary protein will appear in the bloodstream as glucose (3), we can
determine how much dietary protein is required by looking at different protein intakes and how
much glucose is produced (table 1).
. . .
Assuming zero carbohydrate intake, during the first 3 weeks of a ketogenic diet a protein
intake of ~150 grams per day should be sufficient to achieve nitrogen balance. Therefore,
regardless of bodyweight, the minimum amount of protein which should be consumed during the
initial three weeks of a ketogenic diet is 150 grams per day.
After 3 weeks of ketosis, as little as 50 grams of protein per day should provide enough
glucose to achieve nitrogen balance.
The inclusion of exercise will increase protein requirements
and is discussed in chapter 9.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:02 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:47 pm

Thanks for the update. This excerpt from the (now 22 year old) book The Ketogenic Diet might interest you:
...
That was an excellent read. Thank you. Amazing how much has been known for so long.
It looks spot on to me. Matches my experience 100%.

Now you tell me :)
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by WiseOne » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:56 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:11 pm
WiseOne wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:17 pm
Hey Mark, that's interesting. Was it dialing up the fat at the expense of protein, or the near zero carbs?

I noticed during my weekly weigh-ins that the more fat I ate, the more the pounds dropped away & my waistline shrank - with no change in carb intake. At the beginning I thought for sure all that fat would be my undoing. Wrong!

It was just so awesome when I bought a pair of slacks for work in size 8, to replace the size 12 I'd been wearing last year at this time, only to discover it was too big and I had to exchange it for a 6! Thank you low carb lifestyle! And the USDA are a bunch of jerks trying to sell us industrial grain products by pretending they belong in the human diet.
Definitely dialing up the fat at the expense of the protein. Palmitic and stearic acid (saturated animal fat) are great for weight loss. Protein has a small insulin response and contributes slightly to blood sugar. I wasn't looking to lose inches, but it works for that also!

Congratulations on your success! I've noticed some of your comments and have been silently cheering you on.
Mark
Thanks Mark! I don't know if I'd ever get into raw egg shakes, but learning to eat fats - especially animal fats - has been a revelation. Good luck with your diet! Actually, it's not really a "diet" - more like a change to what I've come to realize is a much healthier way to eat than what we've been taught. And I'll never go back. Except for the first few weeks I haven't been all that strict with the carbs, but am 100% unyielding about not touching grains, sugar, or industrial oils (canola, safflower, corn, sunflower etc).
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by bedraggled » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:10 pm

WiseOne, et al,

Which oils do you use, if any? We are using grape seed oil presently.

One of the joys of our former Manhattan life was Fairway Market's explanations and selections of oils. We don't have that now.

Can "organic" be trusted when using safflower oil or sunflower oil? I only bought olive oil at Fairway Market. Days Gone Bye.

The ten extra pounds I carry are a bit annoying.

Thanks.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:29 pm

Hey bedraggled, here's my 2 cents worth.

Ignore the "source" of the oil. I.e grape seed, or canola, or whatever. Ignore organic or not. What you are looking for is the type of fat.
At the very very superficial level you can divide fats into:

Polyunsaturated Fats : seed oils, peanut oil, corn oil, fish oil, margarine and most any kitchen oil you will find at the grocery store or used in a restaurant
Mono Unsaturated Fats : olive oil, avocado oil, macadamia nut oil
Saturated Fats : beef fat, pork fat, butter, coconut oil, cream, egg yolks

In reality, all natural fats have varying amounts of each type, and as humans, we need some of each type.

Large amounts of polyunsaturated fats are pretty nasty for you. There is a growing belief that they are even more responsible for cancer and the obesity epidemic than sugar is. Mono unsaturated fats are a good, solid, healthy fat. Saturated fats are GREAT! :)

About fifty years ago, the Western diet shifted from predominantly saturated fats to predominantly polyunsaturated - in a misguided attempt to avoid heart disease. No bueno.

Take that for what it's worth. There is a growing consensus that decades of nutrition advice has been just plain wrong.

Personally, I don't use oils for much of anything. I'll sometimes make deviled eggs and look for a mayonnaise that is made with avocado or olive oil.

Mark
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:31 am

MangoMan wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:51 am
Mark, do you avoid eating tree nuts and peanuts? Or is it only the oils processed from these sources that are purportedly bad?
I eat them if I'm at a party or something, but I generally don't buy them. My rule of thumb is not to get too many calories from plants. Plants with calories are ususally carb heavy or polyunsaturated fat heavy. There a few exceptions, like avocado and coconut and cacao and mac nuts. Those are plants loaded with good fats. But I still don't eat those often.

Oh, and I want to correct a mistake in my earlier post. It looks like peanuts have more mono unsaturated fat than poly unsaturated fat. They still have a lot of poly, but not as much as I thought. That puts peanut oil well ahead of something like canola.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by WiseOne » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:52 am

Here's a good way to judge whether a given type of oil is safe: Can it be produced using old-fashioned techniques like cold pressing? If it requires modern industrial processes and solvents, then AVOID. And yes agree with Mark: there's plenty of evidence that these industrial oils are bad for human health. The early studies of them, which showed that quite clearly, were simply ignored by the USDA - since their goal was mainly to get you to buy that garbage.

I use olive oil on salads, being careful to avoid products that could be adulterated with industrial vegetable oils. For all other uses I stick with grassfed butter, coconut oil, and animal fats saved from cooking. For example, every so often I get a duckling (sold in groceries from a Long Island producer) and cook it all day in a very low temperature oven. You get an absolutely delicious couple of meals out of it, and several jars of duck fat. That is awesome stuff for cooking vegetables. I do the same with pork shoulders. And save bacon drippings and the fat taken off of bone broth. It all gets reused. I've even used saved fats to make mayonnaise, and once tried dressing a salad with bacon drippings. WOW was that good!
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Maddy » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:01 am

Re the issue of carbs, I'm pretty much convinced that grains are the font from which all bad things come. That fact notwithstanding, I have been unable to give up my whole spelt English muffin in the morning, as it is just about the only remaining source of bodily comfort I get. WiseOne, what do your typical meals look like?

So glad this thread has been resurrected!
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by WiseOne » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:40 am

Good on you Maddie!

Here's a substitute for your English muffin: microwave mug bread.

Melt 1 Tbsp butter or bacon fat in a mug. Add 1 Tbsp coconut flour, 1/4 tsp baking soda, a pinch of salt, and a dollop of heavy cream (maybe a tablespoon?). Mix together, then crack in an egg and mix well. Optional additions: cinnamon or cardamon, vanilla extract, a spoonful of flax meal. Microwave for 2 minutes. Let cool, then remove the bread from the mug and slice. Great with butter on top. I haven't tried toasting it but I bet it would come out nicely.

You can use almond flour as an alternative to coconut, but you need more of it, it comes out drier and almond flour is much more expensive.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by bedraggled » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:55 am

So, expeller-pressed, refined grape seed oil ain't the way to go? I suspect that indicates industrial processing?
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Maddy » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:54 am

WiseOne wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:40 am
Good on you Maddie!

Here's a substitute for your English muffin: microwave mug bread.

Melt 1 Tbsp butter or bacon fat in a mug. Add 1 Tbsp coconut flour, 1/4 tsp baking soda, a pinch of salt, and a dollop of heavy cream (maybe a tablespoon?). Mix together, then crack in an egg and mix well. Optional additions: cinnamon or cardamon, vanilla extract, a spoonful of flax meal. Microwave for 2 minutes. Let cool, then remove the bread from the mug and slice. Great with butter on top. I haven't tried toasting it but I bet it would come out nicely.

You can use almond flour as an alternative to coconut, but you need more of it, it comes out drier and almond flour is much more expensive.
Thank you! I'll pick up some coconut or almond flour later this week and give it a try!
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by dualstow » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:33 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:40 am
Good on you Maddie!

Here's a substitute for your English muffin: microwave mug bread.

Melt 1 Tbsp butter or bacon fat in a mug. Add 1 Tbsp coconut flour, 1/4 tsp baking soda, a pinch of salt, and a dollop of heavy cream (maybe a tablespoon?). Mix together, then crack in an egg and mix well. Optional additions: cinnamon or cardamon, vanilla extract, a spoonful of flax meal. Microwave for 2 minutes. Let cool, then remove the bread from the mug and slice. Great with butter on top. I haven't tried toasting it but I bet it would come out nicely.

You can use almond flour as an alternative to coconut, but you need more of it, it comes out drier and almond flour is much more expensive.
That looks good. I used to make a thin wrap from flaxseed and eggs from a recipe by the ‘Wheat Belly’ author. I loved eating it but...I guess it had a little too much fiber.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Maddy » Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:05 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:40 am
Good on you Maddie!

Here's a substitute for your English muffin: microwave mug bread.

Melt 1 Tbsp butter or bacon fat in a mug. Add 1 Tbsp coconut flour, 1/4 tsp baking soda, a pinch of salt, and a dollop of heavy cream (maybe a tablespoon?). Mix together, then crack in an egg and mix well. Optional additions: cinnamon or cardamon, vanilla extract, a spoonful of flax meal. Microwave for 2 minutes. Let cool, then remove the bread from the mug and slice. Great with butter on top. I haven't tried toasting it but I bet it would come out nicely.

You can use almond flour as an alternative to coconut, but you need more of it, it comes out drier and almond flour is much more expensive.
Hey, that mug bread is pretty good! I think I'll give the low-carb thing another try.

Here's an idea I stumbled on quite by accident this week: grain-free, low-carb cream-of-wheat. I was attempting to make faux mashed potatoes out of pattypan squash, and I must have added too much milk to the mix. What I got, however, was identical in texture to cream-of-wheat, and it had a flavor that was very similar. I imagine if you used a little honey, you might be hard pressed to tell the difference.

BTW, pattypan squash is the white, flying-saucer-shaped squash with scalloped edges. It's a summer squash with a very thin skin, so you can cut it up in pieces with the skin intact, simmer till soft, drain, and then puree with milk and butter.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by doodle » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:40 pm

https://www.mic.com/articles/150232/wh ... cid-pure

"We call the U.S. the world's dumping ground for rancid and defective olive oil," Sue Langstaff, a sensory scientist, told FiveThirtyEight. "We don't know the difference."
I stopped eating fish oil and olive oil after listening to Dr. Rhonda Patrick talk about the dangers of rancid oil on Joe Rogan. Apparently quite a common issue. Mostly good old butter for me.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by doodle » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:44 pm

Maddy wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:05 pm
WiseOne wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:40 am
Good on you Maddie!

Here's a substitute for your English muffin: microwave mug bread.

Melt 1 Tbsp butter or bacon fat in a mug. Add 1 Tbsp coconut flour, 1/4 tsp baking soda, a pinch of salt, and a dollop of heavy cream (maybe a tablespoon?). Mix together, then crack in an egg and mix well. Optional additions: cinnamon or cardamon, vanilla extract, a spoonful of flax meal. Microwave for 2 minutes. Let cool, then remove the bread from the mug and slice. Great with butter on top. I haven't tried toasting it but I bet it would come out nicely.

You can use almond flour as an alternative to coconut, but you need more of it, it comes out drier and almond flour is much more expensive.
Hey, that mug bread is pretty good! I think I'll give the low-carb thing another try.

Here's an idea I stumbled on quite by accident this week: grain-free, low-carb cream-of-wheat. I was attempting to make faux mashed potatoes out of pattypan squash, and I must have added too much milk to the mix. What I got, however, was identical in texture to cream-of-wheat, and it had a flavor that was very similar. I imagine if you used a little honey, you might be hard pressed to tell the difference.

BTW, pattypan squash is the white, flying-saucer-shaped squash with scalloped edges. It's a summer squash with a very thin skin, so you can cut it up in pieces with the skin intact, simmer till soft, drain, and then puree with milk and butter.
It's funny how the low carbers all trying to make carb free carb like comfort substitutes, and the vegans all trying to make meat free meat like substitutes, and the gluten free all trying to make gluten like substitutes, and parents everywhere trying to figure out how much breading and cheese you got to put on broccoli to make your kids eat it.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Smith1776 » Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:03 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:40 am
Good on you Maddie!

Here's a substitute for your English muffin: microwave mug bread.

Melt 1 Tbsp butter or bacon fat in a mug. Add 1 Tbsp coconut flour, 1/4 tsp baking soda, a pinch of salt, and a dollop of heavy cream (maybe a tablespoon?). Mix together, then crack in an egg and mix well. Optional additions: cinnamon or cardamon, vanilla extract, a spoonful of flax meal. Microwave for 2 minutes. Let cool, then remove the bread from the mug and slice. Great with butter on top. I haven't tried toasting it but I bet it would come out nicely.

You can use almond flour as an alternative to coconut, but you need more of it, it comes out drier and almond flour is much more expensive.
This sounds friggin' delicious.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by WiseOne » Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:55 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:03 pm
WiseOne wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:40 am
Good on you Maddie!

Here's a substitute for your English muffin: microwave mug bread.

Melt 1 Tbsp butter or bacon fat in a mug. Add 1 Tbsp coconut flour, 1/4 tsp baking soda, a pinch of salt, and a dollop of heavy cream (maybe a tablespoon?). Mix together, then crack in an egg and mix well. Optional additions: cinnamon or cardamon, vanilla extract, a spoonful of flax meal. Microwave for 2 minutes. Let cool, then remove the bread from the mug and slice. Great with butter on top. I haven't tried toasting it but I bet it would come out nicely.

You can use almond flour as an alternative to coconut, but you need more of it, it comes out drier and almond flour is much more expensive.
This sounds friggin' delicious.
Thanks Smith!!

If you are looking for serious decadence, try slicing it, letting it cool a bit, and putting on a generous dollop of mascarpone cream and a few fresh or frozen berries. Pure heaven. Gives Devon cream teas a run for their money.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Smith1776 » Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:40 am

BradleyHunter wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:57 pm
I use elderberry gummies. it is the only magical immune system booster. In fact, the AAFP (American Academy of family physicians) states that children weaned before 2 years of age are at increased risk of illness. I recommend taking these [URL redacted by mod] as long as possible.
Who are you, and what is your intention with my daughter our forum?
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Smith1776 » Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:41 pm

In an effort to stop spending so much money on Red Bulls, I've come up with an energy drink home recipe that is saving me lots of money.

- half a scoop of pre-workout powder
- one spritz of orange flavoured water enhancer
- 4 parts water
- 1 part diet coke
- Ice

Super yummy, much cheaper, and a bit healthier.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by boglerdude » Mon Aug 28, 2023 8:10 pm

1 gram kratom in 1oz vodka, before gym. Slaps on an empty stomach.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Smith1776 » Mon Aug 28, 2023 8:13 pm

boglerdude wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2023 8:10 pm
1 gram kratom in 1oz vodka, before gym. Slaps on an empty stomach.
Nice!
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