The Permanent Supplement Regime

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MachineGhost
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The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by MachineGhost » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:56 am

To my spreadsheet of the 19 factors involved in aging and over 75 bio-agents, I've added eight new anti-cancerific factors for a grand total of 27 pathological factors involved in aging and as well as updating those bio-agents that now have anti-cancerific factors.  These eight new factors include abnormal growth, apoptosis, aromatase, vessel growth, cell cycle, differentiation, metastasis and receptor expression.

Fortunately, the 11-supplement regime originally referenced in this post: http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ht ... 998#p36998

...does not need to radically change upon re-ranking the bio-agents to cover all 27 factors using the least amount of bio-agents.  What's new is the rise of melatonin to second place below Vitamin D3.  That's a pretty strong testament to both hormones being very powerful with a broad array of positive effects.  I recommend a sublingual or liquid version of melatonin for the same reasons I wrote about DHEA.

It would not be adverse to the regime to drop the DHEA (which now ranks 28th, but was originally a judgement call for the hormonal imbalance factor) in favor of melatonin which is a pretty nontoxic substance.  Drowsiness is easily identified as the upper intake limit.  However, to my way of thinking "hormonal imbalance" implies the age-onset decline of the sexual hormones, not D3 (lack of sunlight) or melatonin (calcification of the pineal gland).  But on the other hand, there is really no way someone can take just one bio-agent and expect to correct all of the various hormonal imbalances.  It is simply way too complex of an issue.  There is a thread by Gumby about hormone imbalances here: http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ht ... ic.php?t=0

05/03/2014 UPDATE: I wrote a new post about the optimal salt intake. http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ot ... /#msg95167

05/31/2014 UPDATE: I've posted my personal regime. http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ot ... /#msg96771

02/10/2015 UPDATE: My latest personal regime: http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ot ... #msg106821

I've tried to stay agnostic but some brands or analogues are just so superior to anything else out there, so here's some recommendations:

Optimal Vitamin D3 Dose: Optimal is still not clear.  You can either err on the side of caution with 2K-5K/day or go for the high side with 7K-10K/day.  I've done both but have settled on 7K/day.
Optimal BioPQQ Dose: 20mg.
Best Fish Oil: VivoMega
Best DHEA: Natural Radiance DHEA -- must be applied anorectally (men).
Best Magnesium: There's currently a class action lawsuit about undisclosed ingredients, including magnesium oxide, in certain brands of buffered Magnesium Glycinate.  While a study claimed to show a higher serum magnesium level combining glycinate with oxide, Doctor's Best sells an unbuffered 100% magnesium glycinate only version if you don't feel like getting ripped off (because glycinate costs more than oxide).  Of Swanson's version of 133mg elemental magnesium per capsule, 100mg is glycinate and 33mg is oxide.
Best Resveratrol: Pterostilbene has superior bioavailability to trans-resveratrol and 50mg of pterostilbene is more or less equivalent to 250mg of trans-resveratrol.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by sophie » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:36 am

I had been skimping on this thread, so hadn't seen your supplement list before.  Most interesting, although there is reason to be concerned about a few of the recommendations.

First, be careful taking any hormone that you already produce, like melatonin (pineal gland) and DHEA (adrenals).  There are elaborate feedback mechanisms to control the levels of these hormones, which you'll throw off by taking them exogenously.  Melatonin, for example, is a great sleep aid when used rarely.  Over time (generally not more than 1-2 weeks), your body adjusts production to compensate for what you're taking, and it stops working.  If you continue to take it over a long period of time (months to years), you'll become dependent on the hormone and lose the ability to produce and regulate it - so stopping it will result in a rebound reaction.

Digestive enzymes won't accomplish anything unless you have a deficit, which is quite rare.  If you do, it'll show up as fatty stools (yellow, floating...sorry for the imagery).

Vitamin K is also a coagulation factor.  Hypercoagulable states are incredibly dangerous.  I don't know if taking too much vitamin K can cause this, but then there's not much literature out there because mostly it's taken to prevent bleeding problems, and never long term.

The B vitamins, calcium, vitamin D, and Mg are good recommendations for anyone.  We all need to take a multivitamin, which goes to show just how non-nutritious our food has become.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Benko » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:32 am

MG:  Care to list the "eight new anti-cancerific factors"?

SOPHIE:  no offense meant, but you gave the typical physician positions. I suppose kinda like a general broker would give when asked about the PP (and I like that analogy, probably fairly accurate).  Briefly:

Digestive enzymes** are probably helpful for a fair number of people (myself most certainly included.  I'd have SEVERE constipation without them).  I don't know of any way to test for it (I certainly don't have the greasy stool thing).  best way is to just try them if you suspect they might be of help.  Many people don't notice anything WHILE taking them, but then they stop and realize what a difference they make.

Vitamin K has been studied in MILLIGRAM doses in japan for osteoporosis for many years (though probably different type than MG is taking).  In any case coagulopathy is not a problem.

Supplemental calcium There are a number of troubling studies of supplemental calcium and heart disease.  Perhaps this would not be the case if sufficeint VIt D and K were administered.

I'm not sure if there is a feedback loop for melatonin and DHEA has been studied and can help increase bone density, though probably of limited benefit for most.

**most effective are broad spectrum plant based e.g. similase.  no commercial interest.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Reub » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:38 pm

I've heard that most doctors are trained to have a general disdain for supplemental vitamins. Is this true and why?
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Gumby » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:29 pm

Reub wrote:I've heard that most doctors are trained to have a general disdain for supplemental vitamins. Is this true and why?


Perhaps the reasons are because most doctors actually have very little training in nutrition and there isn't much money to be made from recommending supplemental vitamins.

I'm not suggesting that doctors are purposefully misleading patients. More likely most doctors are just trained by their professors, governing organizations, and mentors to treat patients in a way that makes money for their institutions. (i.e. take this treatment or test because the AMA or the CDC recommends it and get your insurance company to pay me for it).

Of course, I'm not a doctor, so I'm sure the answer is a bit more complicated than that. But, I'm pretty sure the answer has something to do with "money."
Last edited by Gumby on Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Benko » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:52 pm

Gumby wrote: But, I'm pretty sure the answer has something to do with "money."


OMG you and MG (I'm assuming) actually agree on something ;-)

As I recall there was probably like 1 lecture in med school on vitamins.  Docs are trained to treat things with drugs (or if you're a surgeon , surgery e.g. as someone I knew put it e.g. "to cut is to cure").  In any case that is the mindset.  That anything could be cured/treated with anything other than drugs is mostly not part of the mindset.  Well that and anyone eating "adequate diet" gets sufficient vitamins.  So it is more the mindset/narrowmindedness than anything.

There are certainly some docs motivated by greed, but they are in the minority and there are certainly lots of better ways to make lots of money e.g. as a deadhead (as in greatful dead fan) In college I knew kept telling me, Orthodontia, that is where the money is.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Gumby » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:13 pm

I'm not saying it's a passion for money that causes doctors to have the narrow minded approach you speak of. What I'm saying is that the system rewards the narrow minded approach. For instance, if — hypothetically — prescribing vitamins were somehow lucrative for doctors, you can bet that medical schools would offer more than 1 lecture on them and the AMA would be advancing ways to help doctors utilize those vitamins to screen and treat patients. And perhaps doctors would be asking for more ways to use vitamins to treat diseases. It's the incentives in the system that matters, not the greed per se.

Using drugs to treat symptoms is really the foundation of Western medicine. Ever notice that just about every disease in Western medicine is just a fancy name for a symptom? "Heartburn," "Irritable Bowel Syndrome", "Inflammatory Bowel Disease," "Dermatitis," "Rosacea," "Heart Disease", "Heart Attack", "Peptic Ulcers", "Insomnia", "Restless Leg Syndrome", etc...

There's no real monetary incentive to figure out what's causing the disease. So, the solution to fixing the symptom tends to be pharmaceuticals that only target symptoms. The names of the various diseases reflect this symptomatic-treatment approach. If you have "Heartburn," the fix is to use a drug to stop the burning sensation and the drug tends to cost a lot because it's patented to just do a better job at treating the symptom than the previous drug that was used. Fixing the cause of the disease would end that cycle of lucrative pharmaceutical symptom-treating, but drug companies have little incentive to solve what's causing a disease. (There are practitioners who attempt to fix the cause of things like heartburn, and the treatments tend to be very inexpensive.)
Last edited by Gumby on Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Benko » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:46 pm

Gumby wrote:There's no real monetary incentive to figure out what's causing the disease.


It would not matter.  The Paradigm of  western medicine is grossly inadequate (the other docs on the board must love that). Western medicine is about as capable of explaining the real causes of illness as modern portfolio theory is capable of telling you if the market will go up or down.  Clearly car accidents or pneumonia wesern medicine does pretty well, whereas many illnesses have emotional components which TCM (chinese medicine) at least recognizes and addresses to some extent. 
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by MachineGhost » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:40 am

sophie wrote:First, be careful taking any hormone that you already produce, like melatonin (pineal gland) and DHEA (adrenals).  There are elaborate feedback mechanisms to control the levels of these hormones, which you'll throw off by taking them exogenously.  Melatonin, for example, is a great sleep aid when used rarely.  Over time (generally not more than 1-2 weeks), your body adjusts production to compensate for what you're taking, and it stops working.  If you continue to take it over a long period of time (months to years), you'll become dependent on the hormone and lose the ability to produce and regulate it - so stopping it will result in a rebound reaction.


I don't recall if the negative feedback loop exists or not for DHEA and melatonin as with the other hormones and I really don't feel like looking it up right now to check, but I do take a 250mcg dose of melatonin which is below what the pineal gland releases every night (I believe its 300mcg) to be on the safe side.  I find that a larger dose will result in drowsiness the next morning anyway.  But on the other hand, someone a lot older than me will likely have drastically reduced output of melatonin compared to a 25-year old's benchmark.

As for Vitamin K, it normalizes blood clotting.  I'm sure you're familiar with the blood thinner warfarin (rat poison).  It actually depletes Vitamin K which is why it has such a nasty guaranteed side effect of ostoreoporosis or worse.  Yet, mainstream medical dogma is still that it is dangerous to supplement with the depleted vitamin when on warfarin!  Old myths die hard.  A similar situation exists with replacing testosterone and prostate cancer.  All it takes is just one [flawed] interpretation of a [flawed] study making the rounds for 50 years and everyone will believe it as true.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by MachineGhost » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:41 am

Benko wrote:MG:  Care to list the "eight new anti-cancerific factors"?


They are listed in my original post.  Maybe you need to eat more spinach, eh?  :D

Digestive enzymes** are probably helpful for a fair number of people (myself most certainly included.  I'd have SEVERE constipation without them).  I don't know of any way to test for it (I certainly don't have the greasy stool thing).  best way is to just try them if you suspect they might be of help.  Many people don't notice anything WHILE taking them, but then they stop and realize what a difference they make.


I can't help but wonder if theres any kind of link between a distressed pancreas/Diabetes Type II and a lack of digestive enzymes.   But on the other hand, sophie could be right and its really a leaky gut that allows undigested food particles to pass through, not a lack of digestive enzymes.

Vitamin K has been studied in MILLIGRAM doses in japan for osteoporosis for many years (though probably different type than MG is taking).  In any case coagulopathy is not a problem.


Did I not recommend MK2 and MK7 which is what is used in Japan?  They are derived from fermented soy (natto).  Speaking of which, soy isoflavones have quite a bit of anti-cancerific factors but I think I'll leave it to the women to be eating that.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by MachineGhost » Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:19 pm

The media is waxing poetic all over this study: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.asp ... id=1380451

At first glance it appears favorable, but it turns out the synthetic junk multivitamin (Centrum) used was produced by Pfizer, a Big Pharma nemesis of dietary supplements.  While they didn't overtly fund the study, they supplied the multivitamins and allowed its company name and explicit product title to be used which is normally a big no-no in any objective research.

So after years of negative media exposure about the "worthlessness" of supplements, here we have positive exposure only because Big Pharma's financial interests are at stake -- in the other direction.  

Needless to say, I'm disgusted.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by sophie » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:26 pm

Benko wrote:SOPHIE:  no offense meant, but you gave the typical physician positions.


For someone who was paying attention in endocrinology, you mean?

To each his own I guess.
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