The Permanent Supplement Regime

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Xan
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Xan » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:03 pm

There seems to be a higher proportion of bodybuilders here than in the general population. Is there something about bodybuilding and the PP that makes them go hand-in-hand? I'm thinking of a former member and prolific poster who was also a bodybuilder.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:25 pm

Xan wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:03 pm
There seems to be a higher proportion of bodybuilders here than in the general population. Is there something about bodybuilding and the PP that makes them go hand-in-hand? I'm thinking of a former member and prolific poster who was also a bodybuilder.
:D
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Smith1776 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:56 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:47 pm
So what advice do you need, you've just never had to cut before? Here's a quick Barney-style breakdown:

The keys are keeping your protein high, to maintain muscle mass, and burning off more calories than you take in. You need more protein to maintain lean body mass in a calorie deficit than you did to gain muscle mass when you were bulking. Also, the leaner you are, the more protein you need, whereas if you start out super obese you can get by with less protein. Cutting is pretty simple, but not easy. You just need to experiment a bit to find the easiest way for you.

People cut successfully on pretty much every kind of diet you can think of*. PSMF works. CKD works. Low fat works. You just have to figure out what you can tolerate. What I mean is.. some people like the foods they can eat on a keto diet, and they make them feel satiated, and they can still do ok in the gym. Other people say they feel like they're really weak and nauseated on keto. Likewise, some people feel great eating chicken/rice/broccoli and can keep that up for a while.

Same deal applies to how much to eat. Some people naturally will under-eat and lose weight after they consciously went on a bulk (these people usually lose muscle because they don't pay attention to their protein). Some people can eat "all the keto foods they want" and lose weight (because they're so satiated they stop eating). You can go anywhere from PSMF levels, where you're basically eating protein and EFAs and nothing else, which rips the fat off your body incredibly quickly while you feel like you're dying.. to figuring out what your current maintenance calories are (where you don't gain or lose weight) and subtracting a bit from it, which slowly drops your bodyfat over a longer period of time. And anywhere in between. Pick based on your tolerance and goals.

* To clarify, I meant every type of diet a bodybuilder would think of. I don't think I need to say that the juice detox diets regularly pushed by women's magazines are retarded.
Yes, I basically started out just trying to gain muscle and keeping the body fat level reasonable, but never specifically have I done a cut.

I started bodybuilding about 2 years ago, so I'm not super huge or anything, but have put on enough muscle mass that I get 1 or 2 comments a week about being "in shape".

In a nutshell, I have mass, just not much definition.

My impression is that my body has always easily put on mass (the good and the bad kind), but it's very challenging for me to lose weight. So, I know this will be difficult either way.

Thank you for these tips, I'll do further research and experimentation.
Xan wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:03 pm
There seems to be a higher proportion of bodybuilders here than in the general population. Is there something about bodybuilding and the PP that makes them go hand-in-hand? I'm thinking of a former member and prolific poster who was also a bodybuilder.
Maybe we're the same person and this account was just a long con. >:D
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Smith1776 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:13 pm

This trainer, Ngo Okafor, seems to have an approach with a high degree of efficacy.

Essentially taking normal looking people and getting them photo/video ready in the same sort of "bootcamp" style that a celebrity would engage in for a film. It looks like he centres around circuit work and low carb intake diet plans.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kzx3 ... nude-scene
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by l82start » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:41 pm

you might check out drew baye i have been following his strength training body weight program for a while now, and his videos and books seem exceptionally solid from a biology/physiology/science based standpoint, he is also a body builder and does cutting for competition, so if his cutting programs are on par with his other advice i bet they are good.
I am not a body builder so i haven't read his body building advice, my focus so far is strength/health/injury free.. but i have had some muscle gain and a good amount of fat loss from diet (keto-ish)... :D


BTW drew baye is planing on competing as a body builder again in 2020 using a body weight only program (just to prove some point) it is cool and a bit surprising to think that is possible...
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Smith1776 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:31 am

l82start wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:41 pm
you might check out drew baye i have been following his strength training body weight program for a while now, and his videos and books seem exceptionally solid from a biology/physiology/science based standpoint, he is also a body builder and does cutting for competition, so if his cutting programs are on par with his other advice i bet they are good.
I am not a body builder so i haven't read his body building advice, my focus so far is strength/health/injury free.. but i have had some muscle gain and a good amount of fat loss from diet (keto-ish)... :D


BTW drew baye is planing on competing as a body builder again in 2020 using a body weight only program (just to prove some point) it is cool and a bit surprising to think that is possible...
Drew Baye... never heard of the fellow, but looks like a good source for training info!

Thank you. Will research his ideas and programs further.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Smith1776 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:07 pm

I'm pulling out the nuclear option, guys.

I'm calling a professional nutritionist today...
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:15 pm

Why?
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Smith1776 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:45 pm

One of my friends has a sister who is a nutritionist and is striking it our on her own for the first time with a private practice.

Given that she's new at this and is a friend, i'm getting the "friends and family discount". It comes out to being next to nothing, so I figure why not. Will report back on what she says!
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:13 am

Just another indicator of what started happening in the 70s and getting fatter. No other oil other than soybean comes close to having such an increase.

If I see soybean oil in a product, I put it back on the shelf. For example, we've made our own salad dressing with olive oil for years.

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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by flyingpylon » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:12 am

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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:14 am

Canola oil is the only other one that's skyrocketed, but it looks like the graph is showing kg/p/y on both charts, so it's still about 12x less than soy.

Image

I do wonder if there is something going on genetically. IE, populations that developed in warmer climates (where vegetable oils were grown) adapted to process them, whereas populations in colder climates (where animal fats are prevalent) adapted likewise.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by WiseOne » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:33 am

The main problem with canola, corn and soybean oil is that they're basically experimental. And it's not only the oils. The plants themselves are also new in the sense that they've been bred or engineered for yield, pest resistance etc. For example, wheat is an entirely new plant with substantial genetic differences from the wheat we've been eating for thousands of years.

With all the burgeoning random and poorly understood health problems, like: rise of depression & anxiety, ADHD, subjectively reported gluten sensitivity, undiagnosable "chronic fatigue" and "fibromyalgia" that's created a cottage industry for quacks, not to mention metabolic syndrome, you have to wonder about all these changes introduced into the food system in the name of reducing heart disease risk. Of course it's also possible that this is all just an effect of whiny worried well with too much time on their hands, a temptation to make medical care a hobby because someone else is paying for it, and an inability to deal with life the way their grandparents did, but there's evidence that some of these conditions are indeed real and increasingly common.

If I could go back and change one thing about history, it would be to wipe out Ancel Keyes. He should have been fired and forced to retract his papers, given all the scientific misconduct (cherry-picking data) and logical flaws (e.g. ignoring the effect of cigarette smoking).
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:01 am

WiseOne wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:33 am
If I could go back and change one thing about history, it would be to wipe out Ancel Keyes. He should have been fired and forced to retract his papers, given all the scientific misconduct (cherry-picking data) and logical flaws (e.g. ignoring the effect of cigarette smoking).
Yes!

Even now, though improving a lot because of the wisdom of crowds / internet effect, saturated fat still is demonized. Meat is somewhat demonized (lean cuts...). Eggs are getting less of a bad rap. Butter is doing better. Full fat milk (I can't believe I drank skim for decades). But cholesterol will still kill you if you don't take a statin.

It is heartening to see changes by companies that are appealing to Keto/Paleo in offering items that have much lower carbs and sugar. Full avocado oil mayo (but I don't like the taste!). Coconut oil offered everywhere now.

Soybean oil, though can still be found in way too much stuff. It is just amazing that it is in so many things.

But there is still a lot of continued misinformation

http://www.cardiobrief.org/2016/11/14/i ... reporters/

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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by vnatale » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:33 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:01 am
WiseOne wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:33 am
If I could go back and change one thing about history, it would be to wipe out Ancel Keyes. He should have been fired and forced to retract his papers, given all the scientific misconduct (cherry-picking data) and logical flaws (e.g. ignoring the effect of cigarette smoking).
Yes!

Even now, though improving a lot because of the wisdom of crowds / internet effect, saturated fat still is demonized. Meat is somewhat demonized (lean cuts...). Eggs are getting less of a bad rap. Butter is doing better. Full fat milk (I can't believe I drank skim for decades). But cholesterol will still kill you if you don't take a statin.

It is heartening to see changes by companies that are appealing to Keto/Paleo in offering items that have much lower carbs and sugar. Full avocado oil mayo (but I don't like the taste!). Coconut oil offered everywhere now.

Soybean oil, though can still be found in way too much stuff. It is just amazing that it is in so many things.

But there is still a lot of continued misinformation

http://www.cardiobrief.org/2016/11/14/i ... reporters/

Image
Are you saying that the picture you have here is an example of "misinformation"?

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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by dualstow » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:21 pm

I haven’t read through this thread, but Smithers, how much Vitamin D do you take at once?
After some cursory reading, I ordered some since I don’t have access to the salmon I was buying pre-corona.
I only got 600 iu pills. In fact, they’re children’s vitamins. O0

As they say in Chinese, too much is too little.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Smith1776 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:25 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:21 pm
I haven’t read through this thread, but Smithers, how much Vitamin D do you take at once?
After some cursory reading, I ordered some since I don’t have access to the salmon I was buying pre-corona.
I only got 600 iu pills. In fact, they’re children’s vitamins. O0

As they say in Chinese, too much is too little.
Currently taking 1800 IUs daily! This was on the recommendation of my family doctor.

To be fair, from what I was told, we Canadians need a lot of Vitamin D because of our lack of sun exposure. Those of you guys south of the border probably don't need as much.

I get 800 IUs from my multivitamin, and an additional 1000 from the dedicated Vitamin D supplement.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by dualstow » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:42 pm

Thanks!
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:57 am

Strictly for the purposes of this virus season, I did 2 days in a row of 50,000 IU VD3, followed by daily 5,000 IU. That's too high for long term use, but I'll probably maintain it for a few months.

Normally I get enough sunshine that I don't supplement. I'll probably stop again when I can get back to some summer sunshine.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by dualstow » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:05 am

50,000! Was that an experiment, Mark, or did that come from research?
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:17 am

dualstow wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:05 am
50,000! Was that an experiment, Mark, or did that come from research?
I don't know how widespread the recommendation is, but a lot of professionals attack the first sign of any flu like symptoms with a Vitamin D Hammer

Here's a bit from the abstract...
A colleague of mine and I have introduced vitamin D at doses that have achieved greater than 100 nmol/L in most of our patients for the past number of years, and we now see very few patients in our clinics with the flu or influenzalike illness. In those patients who do have influenza, we have treated them with the vitamin D hammer, as coined by my colleague. This is a 1-time 50 000 IU dose of vitamin D3 or 10 000 IU 3 times daily for 2 to 3 days. The results are dramatic, with complete resolution of symptoms in 48 to 72 hours. One-time doses of vitamin D at this level have been used safely and have never been shown to be toxic.8 We urgently need a study of this intervention. The cost of vitamin D is about a penny for 1000 IU, so this treatment costs less than a dollar.
I don't have symptoms, but I figured it couldn't hurt.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by dualstow » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:27 am

Wow.
Vitamin D Hammer
a mjölnirvitamin complex
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Mark Leavy » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:18 am

dualstow wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:27 am
Wow.
Vitamin D Hammer
a mjölnirvitamin complex
Available (with price gouging) from Kriegsspiel's private bunker supply.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:01 pm

I'm on that D too. Probably don't have enough to support Mark's level of abuse, but I need to get more anyways. I like the chewable grape-flavored ones.
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Re: The Permanent Supplement Regime

Post by dualstow » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:33 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:01 pm
I'm on that D too. Probably don't have enough to support Mark's level of abuse, but I need to get more anyways. I like the chewable grape-flavored ones.
I have dissolvable watermelon ones, if only because everything else was over 600 IU.
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