Lucid Dreaming

[Lone Wolf]

After several nights of trying, I experienced my first lucid dream over the weekend.

For those that are unfamiliar with the idea, a "lucid dream" is a dream that you experience fully aware that you are dreaming.  From what I understand, entering this state typically requires a deliberate act of will.  In my case, I'd made a waking habit of examining my surroundings a little bit more closely than usual in the hopes that this would carry over to the dream state.

Luckily, I wound up in a dream that took place in my house.  I think that this made it much easier for me to successfully "question" the setting and notice that something was off.  In this case, the breakfast table was pushed well off to the side.  Once I saw the inconsistency, a switch flipped and I was in the driver's seat.

It was an extraordinary experience.  Being an 11-year-old at heart, the first thing I wanted to do was something really awesome and really destructive.  In this case, I decided that it was time was to rip the kitchen island out of the floor using the power of my mind.  I slowly raised my hands from my side and with a tortured groan and a final crack, the island pulled right of the floor.  (This does not usually happen to me in real life.)

For some reason at this point I was overcome with the urge to open my eyes.  Once I did, it was all over -- awake in bed, back in reality.  (I'm guessing that this is a big rookie mistake!)

Has anyone else had the "lucid dreaming" experience?  Any stories to share or "pro tips" to offer?  I probably managed no more than twenty seconds but this brief taste was magnificent.  I had every confidence that I was able to do anything that I wanted.  (Except, apparently, stay asleep.)  Hopefully I'll be fortunate enough to get another bite at the apple.  Flying is next on the list! 

[melveyr]

I have had 3-4 lucid dreaming experiences.They are all tipped off by the presence of good friend of mine.

We grew up running around causing mischief together, but now he is paralyzed. He is always able to walk in my dreams, and sometimes it tips me off that something is not right. As soon as I realize that I am dreaming, I get the feeling of a clock ticking, like I don't have too much time before I wake up. I usually jump up in the air and start to fly around and I wake up before I get too high in the air. I think my brain can't develop the scene fast enough when I am flying, causing me to wake up.

[RickV42]

I have dreams like that on different occasions and many times I end up successfully dunking a basketball – with some serious air time.  I wish I could in real life (I used to be close).  In my dreams, I have only been able to dunk once over someone once though.  I’ll have to try to work on that one more.  Incorporating another person seems to take high amounts of dream energy though.

Funny you mention flying, I used to have those as well, but keeping altitude is always tenuous.  I seem to need a running start and be stuck in the hang glider type of flight mode, landing after a short duration flight.  I think my personal version of Google Earth can’t generate the terrain features fast enough!

[RickV42]

melveyr - you may need the same terrain creation upgrade I do!

Funny I wrote something similiar without seeing your post.

[Gosso]

Holy Moly!  I was just thinking about starting a "Dream" thread, although I was going to focus more on dream journals and interpretation.

Anyhow, after watching the movie Inception I decided to watch the special features as well, and one of them focused on 'lucid dreaming'.  I then went through a two week period where I tried to induce it but was never successful.  I have only had two or three 'lucid dreams' in my life (that I remember), but they would only last for 20-30 seconds.

Apparently one way to stay in the lucid dream is to start spinning when you feel yourself waking up.

One thing that worries me about lucid dreaming is bringing your conscious mind into the subconscious world of the dream.  I almost wonder if the subconscious needs this time to work things out, or to possibly send messages to your conscious mind in the form of symbols and myths, as Carl Jung believed.  Hardcore Lucid Dreamers seem to appear very tired or kinda messed up, but that is based on only my limited observation of two or three of them.

Lately I have been keeping a Dream Journal, which has been quite fascinating.  I find this also helps me to remember my dreams, which would help with the lucid dreaming.

[MediumTex]

I read a book on lucid dreaming about 20 years ago and found the concept very intriguing.

It always seemed possible with the right amount of focus, relaxation and discipline, but over time my waking life has become so chaotic that I tend to enter sleep like a runner sliding into second base without a lot of thought about what happens next and my next sensation is normally waking up the next morning.

My dream schedule in general is a little spotty.  Sometimes I have great dreams, and then other times I will go long periods with seemingly no dreams at all.

Some of my most vivid and bizarre dream experiences occur in those situations when I wake up in the morning and become more or less fully awake and then go back to sleep for perhaps 30-45 minutes.  It is often during this 30-45 minute sleep period that I have the most intense and realistic dreams.  I have always wondered about this because I assumed that a deeper state of sleep than one can achieve in 30-45 minutes was necessary to dream like this.  Has anyone else had this experience of having intense dreams during short periods of sleep?

Another thing I wonder about is how long a dream actually takes.  Sometimes dreams feel like they unfold over hours, and yet I assume they are actually occurring over perhaps a 5 minute or maybe 30 minute period (or who knows, maybe it is 30 seconds).

I don't think I have never had a fully "user-directed" lucid dream.

[Lone Wolf]

We grew up running around causing mischief together, but now he is paralyzed. He is always able to walk in my dreams, and sometimes it tips me off that something is not right. As soon as I realize that I am dreaming, I get the feeling of a clock ticking, like I don't have too much time before I wake up. I usually jump up in the air and start to fly around and I wake up before I get too high in the air. I think my brain can't develop the scene fast enough when I am flying, causing me to wake up.

I have dreams like that on different occasions and many times I end up successfully dunking a basketball – with some serious air time.
...
Funny you mention flying, I used to have those as well, but keeping altitude is always tenuous.  I seem to need a running start and be stuck in the hang glider type of flight mode, landing after a short duration flight.  I think my personal version of Google Earth can’t generate the terrain features fast enough!

Great stuff, you guys!  It sounds like flying (or flying up high enough to dunk, at least!) is a very common desire/occurrence in these lucid dreaming experiences.  It's certainly what I found myself wanting to do.

I'm fascinated by the idea that the brain finds itself unable to generate the imagery necessary to support a sustained, high-altitude flying experience.  If I find my mental hardware chugging, I'll just insert a convenient cloud bank to avoid any risk of overheating. 

Apparently one way to stay in the lucid dream is to start spinning when you feel yourself waking up.

Thank you!  I will definitely read more about this idea.  Did you ever get a chance to try it out yourself in one of your experiences?

One thing that worries me about lucid dreaming is bringing your conscious mind into the subconscious world of the dream.  I almost wonder if the subconscious needs this time to work things out, or to possibly send messages to your conscious mind in the form of symbols and myths, as Carl Jung believed.  Hardcore Lucid Dreamers seem to appear very tired or kinda messed up, but that is based on only my limited observation of two or three of them.

  Uh oh!  These are people you know personally?  How messed up are we talking about?

[Storm]

I have lucid dreams all the time, maybe once a week or so.  What I found helpful to trigger them is to keep a dream journal.  When you first wake up in the morning, write down the last thing you remember dreaming about.  At first you won't be able to remember much.  Since the average dream is only 10 minutes long, you will probably barely remember the last thing you were dreaming about before waking up.  After you wrote that dream down, see if you can remember the dream before it.  Work backward chronologically.  After a few weeks of this you should be able to remember quite a bit of your dreams, and this will help you to realize your dream state more easily.

I have heard of people using superpowers in their dreams, however, I've never really been able to do so.  I've tried to do things like moving objects with my mind, etc, but they seem to mostly obey the laws of physics in my dreams.  Probably the most entertaining dreams, however, have been those where an attractive member of the opposite sex was around and I realized I was in a dream, and hey, I can do whatever I want! 

[Lone Wolf]

It always seemed possible with the right amount of focus, relaxation and discipline, but over time my waking life has become so chaotic that I tend to enter sleep like a runner sliding into second base without a lot of thought about what happens next and my next sensation is normally waking up the next morning.

I know exactly what you mean.  I have small children, I don't sleep nearly as much as I should, and I fall asleep within seconds of my head hitting the pillow.  That's part of what made hitting a true "lucid dream" such a surprising, joyful moment.

Come to think of it, I probably "excited" myself right out of the dream. 

Some of my most vivid and bizarre dream experiences occur in those situations when I wake up in the morning and become more or less fully awake and then go back to sleep for perhaps 30-45 minutes.  It is often during this 30-45 minute sleep period that I have the most intense and realistic dreams.  I have always wondered about this because I assumed that a deeper state of sleep than one can achieve in 30-45 minutes was necessary to dream like this.  Has anyone else had this experience of having intense dreams during short periods of sleep?

Yes, I've had these too.  I've even had dreams during fairly brief naps (one hour or less.)  I've wondered whether this is because I am actually having more intense dreams or simply that I am waking in the middle of the dream and thus getting better "dream recall".

Another thing I wonder about is how long a dream actually takes.  Sometimes dreams feel like they unfold over hours, and yet I assume they are actually occurring over perhaps a 5 minute or maybe 30 minute period (or who knows, maybe it is 30 seconds).

I read a while back about an experiment where lucid dreamers counted to ten in their dreams, signaling the beginning and end of a count with a particular eye movement pattern.  It turned out to be fairly close to "real time".  Of course, it's not clear how this extrapolates to other activities, such as flying around the landscape of your city breathing fire.

I have heard of people using superpowers in their dreams, however, I've never really been able to do so.  I've tried to do things like moving objects with my mind, etc, but they seem to mostly obey the laws of physics in my dreams.  Probably the most entertaining dreams, however, have been those where an attractive member of the opposite sex was around and I realized I was in a dream, and hey, I can do whatever I want! 

Great tips!  I will start up a dream journal.  Do you get plenty of sleep or do you tend to be sleep-deprived?

My ability (and giddy eagerness) to employ super-powers and use my lucid dream like some kind of comic book is likely a reflection of my mental age. 

[Gosso]

Great stuff, you guys!  It sounds like flying (or flying up high enough to dunk, at least!) is a very common desire/occurrence in these lucid dreaming experiences.  It's certainly what I found myself wanting to do.

I think I'll go with the 72 virgins.

Thank you!  I will definitely read more about this idea.  Did you ever get a chance to try it out yourself in one of your experiences?

  Uh oh!  These are people you know personally?  How messed up are we talking about?

I have never tried the spinning, but that's what the dude in the Inception special features said.

I don't know anyone personally that does this regularly, I'm just judging by the few YouTube clips that I've seen where they are interviewed.  This guy seems pretty good, although he does have some black bags under his eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG-sDcQiqMI

[rhymenocerous]

This doesn't really apply to lucid dreaming, but I wonder if anyone else has had dreams where they are trying to do something specific, but you're never able to actually do it.  For example, you are running from someone, but your legs don't work and you move really slowly.  Or you try to dial 911 for help, but you keep hitting the wrong buttons like 912, or the police never pick up.

Also, as an interesting aside, you are actually paralyzed from the neck down when you sleep (having a lack of whatever biological mechanism this is is why sleep-walking occurs).  Sometimes you can wake up before the effect wears off, so you'll be awake, but unable to move at all.  It's a really frightening experience.     

[Storm]

This doesn't really apply to lucid dreaming, but I wonder if anyone else has had dreams where they are trying to do something specific, but you're never able to actually do it.  For example, you are running from someone, but your legs don't work and you move really slowly.  Or you try to dial 911 for help, but you keep hitting the wrong buttons like 912, or the police never pick up.

Also, as an interesting aside, you are actually paralyzed from the neck down when you sleep (having a lack of whatever biological mechanism this is is why sleep-walking occurs).  Sometimes you can wake up before the effect wears off, so you'll be awake, but unable to move at all.  It's a really frightening experience.     

This happens to me all the time.  In fact, this is one of the triggers for me that makes me realize I'm lucid dreaming.  If I try to run and I can't, I realize "hey, this isn't real."  I've heard your body needs to rest and regenerate, which immobilizes most of your limbs, but I'm not really sure if this paralysis is due to your dream state mirroring your physical state, or some psychological or neurological condition instead.

[dualstow]

Has anyone else had the "lucid dreaming" experience?  

All the time. When I was a kid, I had them several nights a week. I had no idea that there was a name for them back then, but I quite enjoyed them. In junior high or high school, someone was passing around bootleg cassette copies of this Stephen LaBerge (sp?) guy from a dream & sleep research institute. He had a distractingly phlegmy voice, but some good tips on inducing lucid dreaming, like asking yourself throughout the day, "Am I awake?" So I tried to induce.

As an adult, I've mostly forgotten about lucid dreams, and they don't seem to come naturally anymore. I'm content just to get a good night's sleep. (I have the Harvard book on that, and it helps. I never knew that a single glass of wine can ruin sleep for individuals who are susceptible).
Last time I tried was when the 'Matrix' movies came out.  ;)
Happy dreaming.

[l82start]

it has been a long time since i have had a lucid dream, for a while in my 20's i was doing exercises such as trying to look at my hands in dreams and focusing on remembering dreams when i woke up . i was able to view my hands a few times but my best was moving in and out of my body (??) and hovering above my bed, i was able to manage back flips and aerial acrobatics on a couple occasions, attempting to fly higher leave or the house or room resulted in being pulled back to my bed like an elastic band snapping, some times this resulted in waking up some times i was able to go back into the dream..

[Lone Wolf]

I don't know anyone personally that does this regularly, I'm just judging by the few YouTube clips that I've seen where they are interviewed.  This guy seems pretty good, although he does have some black bags under his eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG-sDcQiqMI

All the time. When I was a kid, I had them several nights a week. I had no idea that there was a name for them back then, but I quite enjoyed them. In junior high or high school, someone was passing around bootleg cassette copies of this Stephen LaBerge (sp?) guy from a dream & sleep research institute. He had a distractingly phlegmy voice, but some good tips on inducing lucid dreaming, like asking yourself throughout the day, "Am I awake?" So I tried to induce.

Hey!  This is the same guy from Gosso's video!  That was a very cool one to watch by the way.  The potential he describes in lucid dreaming was exactly what I sensed during my own brief foray.  It felt like there was nothing I couldn't have made happen.  Time will tell whether that is really the case.

First things first -- gotta actually figure out how to make it happen again. 

[Gosso]

I don't know anyone personally that does this regularly, I'm just judging by the few YouTube clips that I've seen where they are interviewed.  This guy seems pretty good, although he does have some black bags under his eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG-sDcQiqMI

All the time. When I was a kid, I had them several nights a week. I had no idea that there was a name for them back then, but I quite enjoyed them. In junior high or high school, someone was passing around bootleg cassette copies of this Stephen LaBerge (sp?) guy from a dream & sleep research institute. He had a distractingly phlegmy voice, but some good tips on inducing lucid dreaming, like asking yourself throughout the day, "Am I awake?" So I tried to induce.

Hey!  This is the same guy from Gosso's video!  That was a very cool one to watch by the way.  The potential he describes in lucid dreaming was exactly what I sensed during my own brief foray.  It felt like there was nothing I couldn't have made happen.  Time will tell whether that is really the case.

First things first -- gotta actually figure out how to make it happen again. 

I think he was also in the Inception special features -- he seems to be one of the top authorities on it.

Another thing that concerned me about lucid dreaming was confusing the "real" world with the dream world.  Since essentially both worlds are experienced and processed only in our minds.  So if you want to fly, I would recommend taking off from the ground and not the top of a building...just in case you're in the wrong world

Isn't this the main problem with "insane" people -- they have lost the ability to tell the difference between what is reality and imaginary.

[dualstow]

Hey!  This is the same guy from Gosso's video! 

I haven't watched the video yet, but I'm not surprised. He's pretty much the only "famous" lucid dreaming authority.

[MachineGhost]

Also, as an interesting aside, you are actually paralyzed from the neck down when you sleep (having a lack of whatever biological mechanism this is is why sleep-walking occurs).  Sometimes you can wake up before the effect wears off, so you'll be awake, but unable to move at all.  It's a really frightening experience.     

I hate it when that happens, because it reminds me that an alien abduction may be in process (one of my greatest fears, for some odd reason), since they do the same thing.  So the paranoia can feed on itself in the state.

MG

[MediumTex]

Also, as an interesting aside, you are actually paralyzed from the neck down when you sleep (having a lack of whatever biological mechanism this is is why sleep-walking occurs).  Sometimes you can wake up before the effect wears off, so you'll be awake, but unable to move at all.  It's a really frightening experience.     

I hate it when that happens, because it reminds me that an alien abduction may be in process (one of my greatest fears, for some odd reason), since they do the same thing.  So the paranoia can feed on itself in the state.

MG

Are you seriously afraid of being abducted by aliens?

From the overall tone of your posts I would think that you would scoff at such ideas and if the aliens did show up in your chambers one evening you would make them wish they had chosen a different house.

I can see the aliens walking to your neighbor's house visibly shaken as one turns to the other and says: "I've never been called a 'dumbfuck' before and I can't believe how hard that guy kicked you.  People are usually a lot more scared when they see us." 

[Lone Wolf]

I hate it when that happens, because it reminds me that an alien abduction may be in process (one of my greatest fears, for some odd reason), since they do the same thing.  So the paranoia can feed on itself in the state.

This sounds pretty normal.  From what I understand, a very typical side effect of "sleep paralysis" (what you and rhyme are describing) is the sense that some other being is in the room with you.  This is the likely basis for virtually all alien abduction stories.

You've probably seen those pictures of a demonic being sitting on the chest of a person that's lying in bed, paralyzed by fright.  In fact, throw in a little normal nighttime arousal and it's easy to see how the "Succubus" myth probably originated.



Note: The above is not proper lucid dreaming!  Not unless you're into that sort of thing anyway.

[l82start]

i have had sleep paralysis episodes happen as the kick off (trigger) for lucid dreaming, i suspect the two may be a related type of dream state, i have never had an alien or succubus/demon be a part of a sleep paralysis experience, i am not sure if i would believe it was "real " or just part of the dream in that state...

[MediumTex]

I hate it when that happens, because it reminds me that an alien abduction may be in process (one of my greatest fears, for some odd reason), since they do the same thing.  So the paranoia can feed on itself in the state.

This sounds pretty normal.  From what I understand, a very typical side effect of "sleep paralysis" (what you and rhyme are describing) is the sense that some other being is in the room with you.  This is the likely basis for virtually all alien abduction stories.

You've probably seen those pictures of a demonic being sitting on the chest of a person that's lying in bed, paralyzed by fright.  In fact, throw in a little normal nighttime arousal and it's easy to see how the "Succubus" myth probably originated.



Note: The above is not proper lucid dreaming!  Not unless you're into that sort of thing anyway.

In conjunction with the death penalty thread, I have been tossing around the idea of training a drop bear to follow me around at a safe distance and if anyone kills me the drop bear would hunt that person down and kill him.  This would be the functional equivalent of having my ghost kill the killer. 

If you've already got this drop bear bodyguard in place, it probably wouldn't be too hard to also have the drop bear sleep at the foot of your bed and if any aliens entered your bedroom the drop bear could make quick work of them, perhaps without even disturbing your sleep.

As far as the succubi go, I read up on it and I'm not sure I'm ready to say that being visited by a succubus would necessarily be a bad thing.  I would probably advise my drop bear to apply the same rules of engagement to a succubus that he would to a killer--i.e., let them make their move on me before taking any action. 

I'll bet the succubus would be very surprised as she was getting ready to return to her lair and was confronted by by my drop bear.  If I was observing the confrontation in ghost form, I might drift over to the succubus and whisper in her ear: "I'll bet you weren't expecting a drop bear."

***

Apparently, succubi have gotten more attractive in modern times than they used to be.  I guess that's sort of the erotic nightmare fantasy equivalent of Santa Claus getting fatter.

[Lone Wolf]

In conjunction with the death penalty thread, I have been tossing around the idea of training a drop bear to follow me around at a safe distance and if anyone kills me the drop bear would hunt that person down and kill him.  This would be the functional equivalent of having my ghost kill the killer.

With a solution like this, you have made the death penalty obsolete.  The deterrent effect would be incredible.  Who would attack knowing that he'd be only seconds away from his bones being used to decorate a drop bear nest?

Apparently, succubi have gotten more attractive in modern times than they used to be.  I guess that's sort of the erotic nightmare fantasy equivalent of Santa Claus getting fatter.

 That wasn't my first thought (nor second, third or fourth for that matter) but that is great.

I guess that during times when such "amorous" thoughts were frowned upon people reported the experience differently.  It'd probably be a bit unseemly for a pious monk that had been "visited by a succubus" to go on and on about "how great she looked in that nurse's outfit".

[Gosso]

I find I can induce a kind of succubus experience after a good yoga session.  Typically I'll remain in the 'corpse position' following the yoga session and after about 4 or 5 minutes will fall into a type of paralysis, which feels like a conscious sleep.  Then I begin to sense a female presence around me, although it is not the evil succubus, but rather quite angelic.  It's really cool!  Although it doesn't happen all the time, and varies in strength. 

In a way this is the opposite of lucid dreaming, where the unconscious mind enters the conscious world. 

I wonder if this has something to do with the "anima" of the male unconscious, that Carl Jung wrote about.  Essentially it is the female part of the male unconscious.  For females the "animus" is the male part of their unconscious.

[MachineGhost]

I wonder if this has something to do with the "anima" of the male unconscious, that Carl Jung wrote about.  Essentially it is the female part of the male unconscious.  For females the "animus" is the male part of their unconscious.

It might just be your guardian angel.  Not sure if I believe in those or not, but there's no saying that a parallel version of you or an aspect of your higher self couldn't manifest as such.  Have you tried communicating with the prescence?

MG