Does anyone know of a reliable online calculator for comparing the cost of living between not just broad metropolitan areas, but between any two cities--even different cities within a given metropolitan area?
The only one I've found so far that seems to meet this criterion is http://www.bestplaces.net/col/, but (1) I don't know how reliable that site is, and (2) I'd like to compare its results with at least one other calculator as a sanity check.
Cost of living comparisons averaged over broad metropolitan areas lump together, and thus hide, a lot of important distinguishing information, IMO. What good does it do me to know that the "average" cost of living in Metro Area A is 15% higher than in Metro Area B? Such averages lump together everything from slums to middle-class neighborhoods to exclusive gated communities over countless square miles. Within either of those two metro areas, the cost of living by location varies by much more than +/-15%. So what I really want to compare is the cost of living between specific cities in each respective metro area that I think are "comparable" in some sense.
City-by-City Cost of Living Comparisons
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City-by-City Cost of Living Comparisons
Last edited by Tortoise on Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: City-by-City Cost of Living Comparisons
I don't know of any such data on such a town by town level. In the past I have moved around a bit for work, and I would just use an online salary calculator to determine what my salary should generally be in the place I was moving to. This gets you in the ballpark.
For example, if I'm making $50K now, and I need to make $100K in the new city, I can be pretty sure that the $100K will probably buy me an equal quality of life. Double check housing data sites like Zillow and Trulia to see how much it costs to live there.
The thing is - the only thing that changes for a metropolitan area is really housing. Most other costs of living are the same. After all, you'll be shopping at the same grocery store, buying the same gas, etc. So, if you figure out how much your rent or mortgage is going to cost you to live in the neighborhood you want to live in, the salary calculator will tell you the rest.
The one exception I would note is that in the tri-state area where I live, gas prices can vary a great deal. NJ has the cheapest gas because of the low taxes, so I try to fill up there when I can. NYC has the worst gas prices, and prices drop off significantly as you get farther north. In the town where I work I would pay about 25 cents more a gallon to fill up than the town where I live. Of course you can arbitrage this nicely by choosing wisely where you fill up.
For example, if I'm making $50K now, and I need to make $100K in the new city, I can be pretty sure that the $100K will probably buy me an equal quality of life. Double check housing data sites like Zillow and Trulia to see how much it costs to live there.
The thing is - the only thing that changes for a metropolitan area is really housing. Most other costs of living are the same. After all, you'll be shopping at the same grocery store, buying the same gas, etc. So, if you figure out how much your rent or mortgage is going to cost you to live in the neighborhood you want to live in, the salary calculator will tell you the rest.
The one exception I would note is that in the tri-state area where I live, gas prices can vary a great deal. NJ has the cheapest gas because of the low taxes, so I try to fill up there when I can. NYC has the worst gas prices, and prices drop off significantly as you get farther north. In the town where I work I would pay about 25 cents more a gallon to fill up than the town where I live. Of course you can arbitrage this nicely by choosing wisely where you fill up.
"I came here for financial advice, but I've ended up with a bunch of shave soaps and apparently am about to start eating sardines. Not that I'm complaining, of course." -ZedThou
Re: City-by-City Cost of Living Comparisons
In my experience, the online calculators are great for getting you in the ballpark. But you always need to do more research beyond the averages to understand how local culture also affects costs.
As an example, I was terrified moving from Dallas to the Bay Area because most online calculators use the average price of a home in both areas, which puts the Bay Area cost of living averages through the roof. But the calculators don't mention that the average person in San Francisco rents instead of buys (and rents are often half the cost of a mortgage) and has no need to own a car (you can walk or take a bus/train anywhere, and if you do need a car you can get a Zipcar for a few dollars a day). So while San Francisco is indeed more expensive than Dallas, it's not necessarily 2x more expensive (like many calculators may lead you to think) once you figure out how you will really live in a new place.
As an example, I was terrified moving from Dallas to the Bay Area because most online calculators use the average price of a home in both areas, which puts the Bay Area cost of living averages through the roof. But the calculators don't mention that the average person in San Francisco rents instead of buys (and rents are often half the cost of a mortgage) and has no need to own a car (you can walk or take a bus/train anywhere, and if you do need a car you can get a Zipcar for a few dollars a day). So while San Francisco is indeed more expensive than Dallas, it's not necessarily 2x more expensive (like many calculators may lead you to think) once you figure out how you will really live in a new place.
Re: City-by-City Cost of Living Comparisons
Thanks, guys.
Tyler, I was actually looking specifically at the difference in cost of living between the coastal L.A. region and different parts of Silicon Valley. It looks like the cost of living difference is totally dependent on which specific city in Silicon Valley I'm looking at.
That's a good point about the fact that cost-of-living estimates often don't take the rent-vs-own distinction into account. If I end up moving up to Silicon Valley, I seriously doubt I'll be able to buy a home--any home--while maintaining a decent rate of savings. But I suppose that's okay, because I'm in the exact same situation here in coastal L.A.
I just like the fact that Silicon Valley appears to be much more diversified engineering-wise than the L.A. area is. Engineering in L.A. is heavily reliant on the defense industry, and the recent downturn in government spending is sending shockwaves through the defense industry right now.
Tyler, I was actually looking specifically at the difference in cost of living between the coastal L.A. region and different parts of Silicon Valley. It looks like the cost of living difference is totally dependent on which specific city in Silicon Valley I'm looking at.
That's a good point about the fact that cost-of-living estimates often don't take the rent-vs-own distinction into account. If I end up moving up to Silicon Valley, I seriously doubt I'll be able to buy a home--any home--while maintaining a decent rate of savings. But I suppose that's okay, because I'm in the exact same situation here in coastal L.A.
I just like the fact that Silicon Valley appears to be much more diversified engineering-wise than the L.A. area is. Engineering in L.A. is heavily reliant on the defense industry, and the recent downturn in government spending is sending shockwaves through the defense industry right now.
Re: City-by-City Cost of Living Comparisons
Yeah, I moved to the silicon valley area for the same reason - abundance of engineering jobs. It seems like there's a tech company on every corner, and while unemployment in california is very high overall, unemployment for experienced engineers in silicon valley is virtually nonexistent.
In my opinion, buying in the bay area is overrated. Unless you really plan on settling down here for the long run, renting is so much cheaper than buying the same house that it makes much more financial sense to rent, save, and plan for retirement elsewhere in a lower cost area. That's my plan for now, at least.
In my opinion, buying in the bay area is overrated. Unless you really plan on settling down here for the long run, renting is so much cheaper than buying the same house that it makes much more financial sense to rent, save, and plan for retirement elsewhere in a lower cost area. That's my plan for now, at least.
Re: City-by-City Cost of Living Comparisons
You're very wise to rent. The reason is that rents always reflect the true value that people put on housing (a roof over their head). Whenever house prices get too high compared to rents they always, always correct themselves. Those that think the housing market has hit bottom in the bay area are in for a rude awakening over the next decade.Tyler wrote: In my opinion, buying in the bay area is overrated. Unless you really plan on settling down here for the long run, renting is so much cheaper than buying the same house that it makes much more financial sense to rent, save, and plan for retirement elsewhere in a lower cost area. That's my plan for now, at least.
"I came here for financial advice, but I've ended up with a bunch of shave soaps and apparently am about to start eating sardines. Not that I'm complaining, of course." -ZedThou
Re: City-by-City Cost of Living Comparisons
Unfortunately, though, home prices could be brought back into balance with rents just as easily by rents increasing as by home prices falling.
In fact, rents nationwide do seem to be starting to increase:
In fact, rents nationwide do seem to be starting to increase:
And in San Francisco, for example, the recent increase in rents has been even more pronounced at around 9% this year.The rising demand for apartments has driven up rent prices. Nationwide, there was a 3.4 percent gain in rents over the past 12 months, according to Labor Department data, compared with a 2.4 percent rise in all consumer prices. Some individual markets saw much larger gains.
Source: Washington Post
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MachineGhost
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Re: City-by-City Cost of Living Comparisons
I believe you can find the cost of living between two cities at salary.com.
There is equilibrium with taxes among the states. No matter what, you will more or less be paying 10% of income to the state on top of federal income taxes. If relative sales taxes is low, income taxes will be relatively higher. If relative income taxes are low, relative real estate taxes will be higher. And so on. So the tax differences between states is marginal on a net basis. The only way to game the system is to live in a state (preferably rent) that collects no income tax and shop in a state that collects no sales tax.
MG
There is equilibrium with taxes among the states. No matter what, you will more or less be paying 10% of income to the state on top of federal income taxes. If relative sales taxes is low, income taxes will be relatively higher. If relative income taxes are low, relative real estate taxes will be higher. And so on. So the tax differences between states is marginal on a net basis. The only way to game the system is to live in a state (preferably rent) that collects no income tax and shop in a state that collects no sales tax.
MG
Tortoise wrote: Does anyone know of a reliable online calculator for comparing the cost of living between not just broad metropolitan areas, but between any two cities--even different cities within a given metropolitan area?
The only one I've found so far that seems to meet this criterion is http://www.bestplaces.net/col/, but (1) I don't know how reliable that site is, and (2) I'd like to compare its results with at least one other calculator as a sanity check.
Cost of living comparisons averaged over broad metropolitan areas lump together, and thus hide, a lot of important distinguishing information, IMO. What good does it do me to know that the "average" cost of living in Metro Area A is 15% higher than in Metro Area B? Such averages lump together everything from slums to middle-class neighborhoods to exclusive gated communities over countless square miles. Within either of those two metro areas, the cost of living by location varies by much more than +/-15%. So what I really want to compare is the cost of living between specific cities in each respective metro area that I think are "comparable" in some sense.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!