Died Suddenly

[vnatale]

On the other hand regarding your son ...... how about the vaccine perhaps preventing him from a lifetime of potential problems including death?

Come on. The death rate from Covid cases across all ages groups is approx 3%. People in the 18-29 age range only constitute 1.8% of the total Covid deaths. A lifetime of potential problems and death sounds a like like Biden's "winter of severe illness and death" scare tactic last Christmas. A study done in Michigan shows that people in their 20s were 11x more likely to die of a traffic accident than Covid. So really they shouldn't be driving to get the vaccine!

https://www.mackinac.org/for-most-peopl ... -accidents

So you are saying that the death rate for those in the 18-29 age range is about 0.054%? Less than .1%. About one in every 2,000?

That does not address the potential problems short of death.

Shouldn't the correct comparison be comparing these stats to the associated stats from getting the vaccine?

Finally ... while your last two sentences sound good ... I'm not sure that your last sentence is a logical conclusion from the prior sentence.

[Mountaineer]

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substac ... dium=email

From the link which has a lot more information:

So, the risk of debilitating long Covid is double the risk of permanent impairment from driving. Risk of debilitating long Covid is much higher than getting injured during a house fire and about the same as getting a serious dog bite.

[jalanlong]

On the other hand regarding your son ...... how about the vaccine perhaps preventing him from a lifetime of potential problems including death?

Come on. The death rate from Covid cases across all ages groups is approx 3%. People in the 18-29 age range only constitute 1.8% of the total Covid deaths. A lifetime of potential problems and death sounds a like like Biden's "winter of severe illness and death" scare tactic last Christmas. A study done in Michigan shows that people in their 20s were 11x more likely to die of a traffic accident than Covid. So really they shouldn't be driving to get the vaccine!

https://www.mackinac.org/for-most-peopl ... -accidents

So you are saying that the death rate for those in the 18-29 age range is about 0.054%? Less than .1%. About one in every 2,000?

That does not address the potential problems short of death.

Shouldn't the correct comparison be comparing these stats to the associated stats from getting the vaccine?

Finally ... while your last two sentences sound good ... I'm not sure that your last sentence is a logical conclusion from the prior sentence.

The original issue at hand is whether or not the young person's grandparents should require a forced injection into their grandson as a stipulation of visiting them. Given that we now know that the drug manufacturers did not even test for protection against transmission (regardless of what Fauci and Biden lectured us on), we can now stop this 2+ year notion that other people's health choices are my (and your) responsibility and let people do their own personal risk assessment and make their own personal bodily choices which is what should have happened all along.

[stuper1]

The government's statistics show that excess mortality for people under 45 rose sharply only after the covid vaccines were introduced. This means that for some of those grandparents, like my silly parents, who insisted their grandchildren get the covid vaccine before coming to visit, well they didn't get to see their grandchildren after all because the grandchildren were dead from the vaccine. That's pretty sad if you ask me.

Do you have support for this?

Yes, a website providing the all-cause excess mortality data from the CDC was provided on the first page of this thread by someone else, but I will provide it here again:

https://www.usmortality.com/excess-mortality/percentage

To filter by age group, you have to click near the top on the bar marked "Filter" and uncheck the box under Age Groups that says All Years and check the box that says 25-44 Years. You see a big bump in excess deaths starting in about July 2021 and not subsiding until about March 2022. Some people will say there could be other causes. Yes, that may be true, but the covid vaccine seems a very possible cause too. So, you are asking healthy younger adults to roll the dice with an experimental unproven vaccine that may be killing people when Covid itself has been shown to not even be a big problem for healthy younger adults. Now, for a younger person who has health problems that may be an issue with Covid, then they have a different calculation to make, and I hope and pray they are under the care of a good doctor who can think for herself and will guide them to a truly good choice for their personal situation. But for healthy younger adults who don't have health problems, the risk-reward ratio of the covid vaccine seems awfully high to me.

[glennds]

And that's why I'm no longer a Libertarian in the traditional sense. Citizens of other countries don't have any right to come to mine unless they're invited.

Interesting points. When you say "invited" do you mean an approval at the end of an application process?

If a country has an immigration process, and an aspiring immigrant has completed the applications, provided the information and complied with all the other steps in the process, AND been approved, then I think they're now entitled to come in. If they haven't, they're not.

[boglerdude]

Illegal immigrants support the party that claims they like immigrants. In CA, they get a driver license.

It would be mean not to let them vote. You're not a jerk, are you?

edit1: I love how Reddit has to act thrilled about his https://old.reddit.com/r/Denver/comment ... n_to_head/

[vnatale]

Yes, a website providing the all-cause excess mortality data from the CDC was provided on the first page of this thread by someone else, but I will provide it here again:

https://www.usmortality.com/excess-mortality/percentage

To filter by age group, you have to click near the top on the bar marked "Filter" and uncheck the box under Age Groups that says All Years and check the box that says 25-44 Years. You see a big bump in excess deaths starting in about July 2021 and not subsiding until about March 2022. Some people will say there could be other causes. Yes, that may be true, but the covid vaccine seems a very possible cause too. So, you are asking healthy younger adults to roll the dice with an experimental unproven vaccine that may be killing people when Covid itself has been shown to not even be a big problem for healthy younger adults. Now, for a younger person who has health problems that may be an issue with Covid, then they have a different calculation to make, and I hope and pray they are under the care of a good doctor who can think for herself and will guide them to a truly good choice for their personal situation. But for healthy younger adults who don't have health problems, the risk-reward ratio of the covid vaccine seems awfully high to me.

What would be the reason why they subsided about March 2022?

Stats are facts but their causes are usually open to a lot of speculation, opinion, and interpretation.

[stuper1]

Vinny, cmon man, when the vaccines were first introduced there was a huge push to get people vaccinated and a lot of businesses and agencies basically mandated it or at least highly encouraged it. So a bunch of people got vaccinated near the beginning. Then, as time went along, the compulsion decreased, and people began to see for themselves that even people who were vaccinated were still getting covid and symptoms were very similar for vaccinated people as for unvaccinated people, and therefore given a bit more time the rate of vaccine uptake among the under 50 crowd decreased significantly.

What's your theory for the big jump in excess mortality among 25 to 44 year olds between July 2021 and March 2022?

[vnatale]

Vinny, cmon man, when the vaccines were first introduced there was a huge push to get people vaccinated and a lot of businesses and agencies basically mandated it or at least highly encouraged it. So a bunch of people got vaccinated near the beginning. Then, as time went along, the compulsion decreased, and people began to see for themselves that even people who were vaccinated were still getting covid and symptoms were very similar for vaccinated people as for unvaccinated people, and therefore given a bit more time the rate of vaccine uptake among the under 50 crowd decreased significantly.

What's your theory for the big jump in excess mortality among 25 to 44 year olds between July 2021 and March 2022?

I try to not speculate when I have no basis for the speculation.

[barrett]

Vinny, cmon man, when the vaccines were first introduced there was a huge push to get people vaccinated and a lot of businesses and agencies basically mandated it or at least highly encouraged it. So a bunch of people got vaccinated near the beginning. Then, as time went along, the compulsion decreased, and people began to see for themselves that even people who were vaccinated were still getting covid and symptoms were very similar for vaccinated people as for unvaccinated people, and therefore given a bit more time the rate of vaccine uptake among the under 50 crowd decreased significantly.

What's your theory for the big jump in excess mortality among 25 to 44 year olds between July 2021 and March 2022?

I'm not Vinny but the big jump in excess mortality during that time frame is almost surely due to the Delta wave followed by the Omicron BA1/BA2 wave. Delta was much more deadly on a per-case basis and those Omicron variants caused huge numbers of deaths just because they were so highly transmissible.

Incidentally, stuper1, I am totally with you that people who did not want to be vaccinated should not have been forced to do so. And that the policies promoting/forcing vaccination regardless of age-group risks (both from the virus and from the vaccines) were terrible.

Jay Bhattacharya is the only person I've listened to who even bothered to come up with a rule of thumb for how lethal the ancestral (Wuhan) virus was. And I believe he calculated this in April of 2020, so early enough that if correct, it could have prevented a lot of bad decisions that were made regarding school closings, mandates, etc. Bhattacharya's basic formula was that the ancestral strain had a mortality rate of .2% for a healthy person who was 50 years old. That rate would be doubled for every additional seven years of age (.4% for people age 57, .8% for age 64, 1.6% for age 71, 3.2% for age 78, etc.). He also said that every known co-morbidity could be looked at as an additional seven years of age. And then as one counts down from 50 years old, that the number could be halved for every seven years. Again, it's just a rule of thumb but he was at least trying to determine what we were up against and which cohorts were really at risk of dying.

[flyingpylon]

This is just one of those topics that will never be fully resolved. It’s hard to convince people, but even harder to convince them that they’ve been fooled. That goes in both directions. It’s pointless to try to “prove” anything to people, but it can be interesting to consider their opinion and how they arrived at it. There will always be a spectrum of opinions based on an infinite number of data points.

Here’s an interesting (but long) article that came out recently.

The Most Important Dataset of the Pandemic Was Just Released: Germany Has Provided The Means To Quantify The Human Cost Of The Experimental Vaccination Program

[glennds]

Jay Bhattacharya is the only person I've listened to who even bothered to come up with a rule of thumb for how lethal the ancestral (Wuhan) virus was. And I believe he calculated this in April of 2020, so early enough that if correct, it could have prevented a lot of bad decisions that were made regarding school closings, mandates, etc. Bhattacharya's basic formula was that the ancestral strain had a mortality rate of .2% for a healthy person who was 50 years old. That rate would be doubled for every additional seven years of age (.4% for people age 57, .8% for age 64, 1.6% for age 71, 3.2% for age 78, etc.). He also said that every known co-morbidity could be looked at as an additional seven years of age. And then as one counts down from 50 years old, that the number could be halved for every seven years. Again, it's just a rule of thumb but he was at least trying to determine what we were up against and which cohorts were really at risk of dying.

This is interesting, and prompted some google searching for more info on Bhattacharya's rule of thumb. He is one of the people purportedly shadow banned from Twitter according to the Twitter Files. Re-reading the Great Barrington Declaration with the benefit of hindsight is interesting in the same way too, not surprisingly because Bhattacharya was one of the three primary authors.

[glennds]

This is just one of those topics that will never be fully resolved. It’s hard to convince people, but even harder to convince them that they’ve been fooled.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...

[Kriegsspiel]

And that's why I'm no longer a Libertarian in the traditional sense. Citizens of other countries don't have any right to come to mine unless they're invited.

Interesting points. When you say "invited" do you mean an approval at the end of an application process?

If a country has an immigration process, and an aspiring immigrant has completed the applications, provided the information and complied with all the other steps in the process, AND been approved, then I think they're now entitled to come in. If they haven't, they're not.

Like with most things, I think the best way to go about things is to start enforcing the laws that are already on the books (with one exception), then adjust them afterwards if needed. It's my understanding that the number of foreigners that are allowed to become US citizens is pretty small, there are some quotas on who we'll allow in, etc etc. Start with that and go from there.

I'd say the first order of business is to secure the borders against people just walking across, not just physically, but in preventing them from exploiting asylum and refugee customs to get in. I'm obviously not an immigration lawyer, but the one exception I mentioned are the asylum/refugee exploits where foreigners claim asylum/refugee once they get into the US and stay here.

[glennds]

Like with most things, I think the best way to go about things is to start enforcing the laws that are already on the books (with one exception), then adjust them afterwards if needed. It's my understanding that the number of foreigners that are allowed to become US citizens is pretty small, there are some quotas on who we'll allow in, etc etc. Start with that and go from there.

I'd say the first order of business is to secure the borders against people just walking across, not just physically, but in preventing them from exploiting asylum and refugee customs to get in. I'm obviously not an immigration lawyer, but the one exception I mentioned are the asylum/refugee exploits where foreigners claim asylum/refugee once they get into the US and stay here.

I know we're off the topic of the original thread but...
I think we need to de-couple the issue of (1) securing borders/stopping illegal immigration from (2) re-organizing and encouraging legal immigration i.e. applicants, not people walking across a border. For a country struggling with labor shortage and wishing to grow tax base, we should want the latter and not sacrifice it in the effort to stop the former.

If a legal immigrant is willing to go through the procedures, make their case, embrace American life, start a business, take up gainful employment, pay taxes - that's just good business because those are things that help us all. If most of us look back in our own families, it usually should not take more than three, maybe four generations to find someone who fits this description.

I like the idea of putting conditions on immigration. Shorten up green card and driver's license expiration dates to align with immigration terms. Send them to places with economic and labor need for an initial term, maybe 5 years? What about a system approximating a parole officer who the immigrant checks in with every 6 months, verifies employment, that income taxes were filed? Maybe require night ESL classes for non-English speakers. If all that is asking too much, then don't take the deal and don't come.

Flawed logic or all around bad idea? Tell me why

[SilentMajority]

So did anyone see the movie? I did, and I think it's designed to appeal to a large audience, the average IQ but there's just enough in there if you're smart and "scientific" (whatever that means) that you'll be interested. Lot of testimonials from embalmers and studies and statistics indicating something is happening and being covered up.

FYI, no new deaths at my work in the past 1.5 weeks.

[vnatale]

So did anyone see the movie? I did, and I think it's designed to appeal to a large audience, the average IQ but there's just enough in there if you're smart and "scientific" (whatever that means) that you'll be interested. Lot of testimonials from embalmers and studies and statistics indicating something is happening and being covered up.

FYI, no new deaths at my work in the past 1.5 weeks.

Which movie?

[SilentMajority]

So did anyone see the movie? I did, and I think it's designed to appeal to a large audience, the average IQ but there's just enough in there if you're smart and "scientific" (whatever that means) that you'll be interested. Lot of testimonials from embalmers and studies and statistics indicating something is happening and being covered up.

FYI, no new deaths at my work in the past 1.5 weeks.

Which movie?

Died Suddenly

[vnatale]

So did anyone see the movie? I did, and I think it's designed to appeal to a large audience, the average IQ but there's just enough in there if you're smart and "scientific" (whatever that means) that you'll be interested. Lot of testimonials from embalmers and studies and statistics indicating something is happening and being covered up.

FYI, no new deaths at my work in the past 1.5 weeks.

Which movie?

Died Suddenly

Referred to in the first post in this topic? "Anyone see this "documentary" on the effects of the Covid vaccines yet?"

Generally I do not consider documentaries and movies the same.

Was the URL for this ever provided? Or, more details regarding where to find it? Is "Died Suddenly" its actual title?

[SilentMajority]

So did anyone see the movie? I did, and I think it's designed to appeal to a large audience, the average IQ but there's just enough in there if you're smart and "scientific" (whatever that means) that you'll be interested. Lot of testimonials from embalmers and studies and statistics indicating something is happening and being covered up.

FYI, no new deaths at my work in the past 1.5 weeks.

Which movie?

Died Suddenly

Referred to in the first post in this topic? "Anyone see this "documentary" on the effects of the Covid vaccines yet?"

Generally I do not consider documentaries and movies the same.

Was the URL for this ever provided? Or, more details regarding where to find it? Is "Died Suddenly" its actual title?

I put "documentary" in quotes because it blurs like line between documentary and docu-drama.

I'll see if I can dig up a link somewhere, I'm sure it's all over Twitter.

[DogBreath]

I put "documentary" in quotes because it blurs like line between documentary and docu-drama.

I'll see if I can dig up a link somewhere, I'm sure it's all over Twitter.

But not on the basketball threads, which is why he couldn't find it....

[Hal]

I put "documentary" in quotes because it blurs like line between documentary and docu-drama.

I'll see if I can dig up a link somewhere, I'm sure it's all over Twitter.

But not on the basketball threads, which is why he couldn't find it....

Here you go. https://www.bitchute.com/video/4LIve6zFAa4x/
Doesn't look like a movie you would watch while eating.....

ps: And while I don't particulary like the way this article is written, the content is interesting.
https://caldronpool.com/another-right-w ... bberwocky/

[vnatale]

I put "documentary" in quotes because it blurs like line between documentary and docu-drama.

I'll see if I can dig up a link somewhere, I'm sure it's all over Twitter.

But not on the basketball threads, which is why he couldn't find it....

How about my "A" list which has over 4,900 people on it? I also go through that with regularity and did not note anyone making reference to "Died Suddenly".

If you have Twitter you can scroll through who is on my list to see that it represents a wide spectrum of views and interests.

https://twitter.com/i/lists/1077088648393359360

[stuper1]

The latest Liberty Lockdown podcast has an interview with a data analyst who has looked at multiple data sets and concluded that middle aged people are dying due to the vaccine:

https://rumble.com/v21ibha-why-are-we-d ... -dowd.html

His name is Edward Dowd, and he also has a book out called "Cause Unknown": The Epidemic of Sudden Deaths in 2021 & 2022.

The above podcast is posted on Rumble instead of Youtube, because Youtube won't let you talk about these things openly. They literally won't let you look at data sets regarding mortality and talk about possible causes openly. That's pretty crazy if you ask me. I'm sure they have their FBI advisers telling them it's needed for public safety or whatever. So here we are living in Soviet America governed by the big pharmaceutical companies and other big businesses. I guess that is more like Fascism than Communism, but either way it's authoritarianism.

[vnatale]

The latest Liberty Lockdown podcast has an interview with a data analyst who has looked at multiple data sets and concluded that middle aged people are dying due to the vaccine:

https://rumble.com/v21ibha-why-are-we-d ... -dowd.html

His name is Edward Dowd, and he also has a book out called "Cause Unknown": The Epidemic of Sudden Deaths in 2021 & 2022.

The above podcast is posted on Rumble instead of Youtube, because Youtube won't let you talk about these things openly. They literally won't let you look at data sets regarding mortality and talk about possible causes openly. That's pretty crazy if you ask me. I'm sure they have their FBI advisers telling them it's needed for public safety or whatever. So here we are living in Soviet America governed by the big pharmaceutical companies and other big businesses. I guess that is more like Fascism than Communism, but either way it's authoritarianism.

Not what I expected. Did not expect to find it on Amazon, let alone that it is a best seller with 133 reviews averaging the highest possible five stars. But it does raise the question of how Amazon escapes the general concept being pushed here that all is controlled by the government and its allies. if true, how is the book allowed to be sold on Amazon? Does the FBI not talk to them or does Amazon ignore the FBI?

Capture.JPG (46.43 KiB) Viewed 1551 times