Washington Journal

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Washington Journal

Post by vnatale » Fri May 20, 2022 8:57 am

C-Span's Washington Journal is on from 7 AM to 10 AM every single day of the year. I'm an addict regarding it. I have it on every morning.

There are tons of good segments. I am starting this topic which I will use to periodically let everyone know of a segment which I think is of interest to many here.

This is one of today's segments:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?520309-4/ ... lations-us

MAY 20, 2022 | PART OF WASHINGTON JOURNAL 05/20/2022
Washington Journal
Jonathan Metzl on Gun Violence and Race Relations in the U.S.
Dr. Jonathan Metzl talked about gun violence and race relations in the U.S.
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by dualstow » Fri May 20, 2022 2:20 pm

People have complained several times that this forum is run by or dominated by liberals, but I think you have chosen two funny topics here (for the gyro forum). i would wager the majority is still pro gun ownership rights (I am, even though I don’t own a gun) and tired of race stuff. Not racist, but as any good fanatic will tell you, “not racist” doesn’t even count. You have to be fervently “anti-racist” or you’re the enemy. In fact, just saying I’m tired of the racial stuff indicated that I’m part of the problem. O0
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by boglerdude » Fri May 20, 2022 5:47 pm

"Not racist" ? Sounds like a dog whistle. - r/neoliberal
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by joypog » Fri May 20, 2022 6:29 pm

dualstow wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 2:20 pm
People have complained several times that this forum is run by or dominated by liberals
Interesting. I'm new around here but this place seems to be more of a libertarian hang out.

Or maybe I'm projecting due to HB?

In any case, I'd most likely be able to put up some liberal bonafides against most of y'all....but even I'm over race stuff....I'm basically a John McWhorter liberal...have they given this tribe a name? Is that what neoliberals are?
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by dualstow » Fri May 20, 2022 7:25 pm

No, you’re right, joypog. It has totally been a libertarian hangout. But, enough members have left that it’s hard to tell where the majority is. Definitely not far leftists, of course.
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by vnatale » Fri May 20, 2022 10:27 pm

dualstow wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 2:20 pm

People have complained several times that this forum is run by or dominated by liberals, but I think you have chosen two funny topics here (for the gyro forum). i would wager the majority is still pro gun ownership rights (I am, even though I don’t own a gun) and tired of race stuff. Not racist, but as any good fanatic will tell you, “not racist” doesn’t even count. You have to be fervently “anti-racist” or you’re the enemy. In fact, just saying I’m tired of the racial stuff indicated that I’m part of the problem. O0


You are letting your own biases give you your own interpretation of what the title meant.

Reducing gun violence does not necessarily mean taking away gun ownership rights. As usual when I have Washington Journal on I'm doing one, two, or three other things also so I'm only hearing bits and pieces of it. But the two things that stuck out regarding guns was that when someone brought up what had been done in Australia (total ban of guns?) he said he did not think that was possible here. The other was him saying that while things like the recent Buffalo shootings get all the attention those type of shootings are a tiny percentage of the overall deaths by guns and any other violence from guns. Therefore efforts should be focused on reducing death by guns and other violence from guns other than those that occur from mass shootings.

The racism part I'm not remembering as much. He did say that there are some politicians who cause reactions in people which results in them to vote against their own interests, such as Obamacare much to the detriment of their own lives.

Finally, as the forum historian, I'd like to see you provide just one instance wherein someone complained about this forum being run or dominated by liberals. From my now three years of experience here I'd say those type complaints could be directed towards any other political persuasion than liberals. Liberals here have always been few (comparatively).

Finally, finally my belief is that you listen to a fair amount of podcasts. Give that one a listen and tell if me if you still would write the same as you did above. Remember that title writers of any kind of article do not oftentimes the same story that the entitled article does.

Finally, finally, finally....go here and read some of the reviews of his book. This short one better states what I tried to say above:

"I enjoyed this book very much, although enjoyed seems like the wrong word for a book about how White people are truly dying because of their ignorance and misguided Politics. Every White person should read this book so they can re-examine their own life before their behavior shortens their lifespan, and the lifespans of loved ones."
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by vnatale » Fri May 20, 2022 10:35 pm

joypog wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 6:29 pm

dualstow wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 2:20 pm

People have complained several times that this forum is run by or dominated by liberals


Interesting. I'm new around here but this place seems to be more of a libertarian hang out.

Or maybe I'm projecting due to HB?

In any case, I'd most likely be able to put up some liberal bonafides against most of y'all....but even I'm over race stuff....I'm basically a John McWhorter liberal...have they given this tribe a name? Is that what neoliberals are?


Your perceptions are correct!
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by vnatale » Fri May 20, 2022 10:37 pm

dualstow wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 7:25 pm

No, you’re right, joypog. It has totally been a libertarian hangout. But, enough members have left that it’s hard to tell where the majority is. Definitely not far leftists, of course.


Still definitely not even close to being over the liberal / conservative line in some way. There are some liberal voices who have come back in some capacity but still a tiny minority here.
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by dualstow » Sat May 21, 2022 4:52 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:27 pm

Finally, as the forum historian, I'd like to see you provide just one instance wherein someone complained about this forum being run or dominated by liberals

I could point you to the thread I have in mind, but as he deleted the post (and wrote “I guess it wasn’t funny”) I could find better ways to spend my time on a Saturday. I believe it was a month or two ago. Guy joked about being a long-time lurker and was tempted to get an account so that he “could block Vinny.” Does that ring a bell? O0
EDIT: Here’s what’s left of it - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12577

Anyway, you’re right- it was just a superficial comment on the titles/topics. I like C-SPAN and will explore your links.
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by dualstow » Sat May 21, 2022 8:55 am

MangoMan wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 6:53 am
It's not so much that the liberal voices have come back, it's that most all of the conservatives stopped posting. If none of you noticed that, maybe that also explains why.
This is what I mean to say. I don’t know if it’s most, but a lot of conservative, libertarian, and conservative-libertarian. A few banned, but most left on their own.
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by joypog » Sat May 21, 2022 9:36 am

MangoMan wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 6:53 am
vnatale wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:37 pm
dualstow wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 7:25 pm
No, you’re right, joypog. It has totally been a libertarian hangout. But, enough members have left that it’s hard to tell where the majority is. Definitely not far leftists, of course.
Still definitely not even close to being over the liberal / conservative line in some way. There are some liberal voices who have come back in some capacity but still a tiny minority here.
It's not so much that the liberal voices have come back, it's that most all of the conservatives stopped posting. If none of you noticed that, maybe that also explains why.
Do you mean conservative as in 2000's Jonah Goldberg NRO neocon or 2020's MAGA Sohrab Ahmari Nationalist?

From what I can tell, a lot of folks here (including me actually) may have some affinities towards the former (except maybe foreign policy). I would say I haven't seen much if any of the latter.
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by joypog » Sat May 21, 2022 1:38 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 10:53 am
There are also a whole lot of people (not just here previously, but everywhere in the US) who were previously centrists, but have moved right because the left has become so insane. Not saying those on the far right aren't also crazy, but the level of insanity on the left has gone off the deep end. You made your own case of this in the other thread where you pointed out that calling pregnant men by the wrong terminology is a microaggression (paraphrasing). I know you were being humorous, but there's a whole lot of people who actually subscribe to that nonsense.
Totally get it. As an architect with years of post modern art theory in my head, I've was quite sympathetic to wokism when it became a thing in the mid/late 2010's. But I quickly realized woke twitter is a fucking bitter crowd and extracated myself from that scene.

I could only imagine what someone without 7.5 years of higher ed indoctrination feels about their insanity.

I would be voting Republican if they hadn't gone in their authoritarian bent...actually I did vote R when I lived in Berkeley two decades ago - as a protest vote because the city wasn't well run (and the R candidate had zero chance anyways).
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by joypog » Sat May 21, 2022 5:26 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 3:00 pm
joypog wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 1:38 pm
I would be voting Republican if they hadn't gone in their authoritarian bent.
This seems to be a common complaint among left-leaning people. Please give me a few examples of what you mean by this. From where I sit, it's the Left that is authoritarian. If you don't follow their playbook to the letter, you are canceled, forced from your job, or worse.
Jan 6th. The gerrymandering shenanigan's. The norm busting they did to Merrick Garland. The Texas private abortion civil suit law. The vague anti-CRT laws. The draconian state laws they've been saber rattling over once Roe is overturned. A lack of revulsion towards kids in cages. Their indulgence to the Trump nepotism and kleptocracy. Their insistence that the last election was illegitimate.

For what it's worth, my primary political podcast diet is the Dispatch so feel I'm on pretty solid ground here, not just an NYT frame.

To be sure, the left has an authoritarian bent so I can't completely blame someone who chooses to vote R in spite of these failings, but the GOP is beyond the pale for me.
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by dualstow » Sat May 21, 2022 6:39 pm

joypog wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 5:26 pm

Jan 6th. The gerrymandering shenanigan's. The norm busting they did to Merrick Garland. The Texas private abortion civil suit law. The vague anti-CRT laws. The draconian state laws they've been saber rattling over once Roe is overturned. A lack of revulsion towards kids in cages. Their indulgence to the Trump nepotism and kleptocracy. Their insistence that the last election was illegitimate.
Hell yes. All good points. I didn’t even know about the Texas one. I’ll have to look it up.
Lao-tzu had the best advice: take the middle road.
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by joypog » Sat May 21, 2022 6:47 pm

dualstow wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 6:39 pm
joypog wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 5:26 pm

Jan 6th. The gerrymandering shenanigan's. The norm busting they did to Merrick Garland. The Texas private abortion civil suit law. The vague anti-CRT laws. The draconian state laws they've been saber rattling over once Roe is overturned. A lack of revulsion towards kids in cages. Their indulgence to the Trump nepotism and kleptocracy. Their insistence that the last election was illegitimate.
Hell yes. All good points. I didn’t even know about the Texas one. I’ll have to look it up.
Lao-tzu had the best advice: take the middle road.
Yeah the Texas one is an interesting move. Instead of challenging Roe directly (unlike the one Mississippi law that resulted in the Alito leak), the Texas law just allows you to sue anyone who helps a woman get an abortion. The theory is that State has no involvement in prosecuting the civil suit so there is no one at the State to sue in stopping these actions from moving forward.

Of course, gun control activists are quite curious about how this lawsuit will play out in the courts.
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by boglerdude » Sun May 22, 2022 4:53 pm

Must be nice to be one of those who didnt have your small business destroyed, your rental property seized by eviction ban, or your children remote schooled, masked and jabbed. All for your health, of course, not as a cover for inflationary bailouts. I was vegan ban-cars Left until March 2020 now (sadly) it's Repub/libertarian time.
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by dualstow » Sun May 22, 2022 7:18 pm

Well, having a problem with the GOP does not mean endorsing the Dem shenanigans that you listed. I don’t like those either.
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by vnatale » Sun May 22, 2022 8:42 pm

dualstow wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 4:52 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:27 pm


Finally, as the forum historian, I'd like to see you provide just one instance wherein someone complained about this forum being run or dominated by liberals

I could point you to the thread I have in mind, but as he deleted the post (and wrote “I guess it wasn’t funny”) I could find better ways to spend my time on a Saturday. I believe it was a month or two ago. Guy joked about being a long-time lurker and was tempted to get an account so that he “could block Vinny.” Does that ring a bell? O0
EDIT: Here’s what’s left of it - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12577

Anyway, you’re right- it was just a superficial comment on the titles/topics. I like C-SPAN and will explore your links.


Just started reading his book. This is obviously his key thesis in the book:

"The confluence of these trajectories led to a perilous state of affairs that I analyze in the sections that follow. Succinctly put: a host of complex anxieties prompt increasing numbers of white Americans like Trevor to support right-wing politicians and policies, even when these policies actually harm white Americans at growing rates. As these policy agendas spread from Southern and midwestern legislatures into the halls of Congress and the White House, ever-more white Americans are then, literally, dying of whiteness. This is because white America’s investment in maintaining an imagined place atop a racial hierarchy—that is, an investment in a sense of whiteness—ironically harms the aggregate well-being of US whites as a demographic group, thereby making whiteness itself a negative health indicator."
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by vnatale » Sun May 22, 2022 9:04 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 8:42 pm

dualstow wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 4:52 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:27 pm


Finally, as the forum historian, I'd like to see you provide just one instance wherein someone complained about this forum being run or dominated by liberals

I could point you to the thread I have in mind, but as he deleted the post (and wrote “I guess it wasn’t funny”) I could find better ways to spend my time on a Saturday. I believe it was a month or two ago. Guy joked about being a long-time lurker and was tempted to get an account so that he “could block Vinny.” Does that ring a bell? O0
EDIT: Here’s what’s left of it - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12577

Anyway, you’re right- it was just a superficial comment on the titles/topics. I like C-SPAN and will explore your links.


Just started reading his book. This is obviously his key thesis in the book:

"The confluence of these trajectories led to a perilous state of affairs that I analyze in the sections that follow. Succinctly put: a host of complex anxieties prompt increasing numbers of white Americans like Trevor to support right-wing politicians and policies, even when these policies actually harm white Americans at growing rates. As these policy agendas spread from Southern and midwestern legislatures into the halls of Congress and the White House, ever-more white Americans are then, literally, dying of whiteness. This is because white America’s investment in maintaining an imagined place atop a racial hierarchy—that is, an investment in a sense of whiteness—ironically harms the aggregate well-being of US whites as a demographic group, thereby making whiteness itself a negative health indicator."


Expanding upon the thesis of his book:

"THE HEART OF the book delves into thrultimately cost the state roughly $273 million in lost work between 2008 and 2015 and ultimately led to the loss of over 10,506 years of productive white male life.ee state-level narratives that illustrate how politics that claimed on face value to bolster white America ended up making even white lives sicker, harder, and shorter. I begin in Missouri, where pro–National Rifle Association (NRA) conservative lawmakers passed pro-gun laws that allowed citizens to carry concealed handguns at schools, annulled most city and regional gun restrictions, and allowed just about anyone over the age of eighteen to carry a concealed weapon. Though framed as universal expressions of Second Amendment rights, racial tensions lurked around every corner of these legislative decisions. Corporate-gun-lobby-backed politicians, commentators, and advertisements openly touted loosened gun laws as ways for white citizens to protect themselves against dark intruders, while white open-carry advocates paraded through largely African American sections of downtown St. Louis brandishing semiautomatic handguns and long guns. Meanwhile, black men who attempted to demonstrate their own open-carry rights were attacked and jailed rather than lauded as freedom-loving patriots.

When I began to sift through the statistics for gun injury and death in Missouri, I quickly realized that the primary victims of gun mortality were not criminals or inner-city gang members, as the NRA and some politicians implied. Rather, as gun laws were liberalized, gun deaths spiked… among white people. This was because white Missourians dominated injuries and deaths via gun-related suicides, partner violence, and accidental shootings—and in ways that outpaced African American gun deaths from homicides. Gun regulation is such a politically sensitive question in the United States that there has long been a congressional ban on funding for research on the health impact of firearms. Through a back door into data on mortality, I detail how legislation that substantially deregulated gun purchases set Missouri on a path toward becoming a top state for gun suicide, even among other pro-gun states, and that the primary victims of these trends were white Missourians, particularly white men living in rural areas. As I show, lax gun laws ultimately cost the state roughly $273 million in lost work between 2008 and 2015 and ultimately led to the loss of over 10,506 years of productive white male life."
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by dualstow » Sun May 22, 2022 9:32 pm

Metzl’s book?

Left or right, boglerdude is extremist lite O0
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by vnatale » Sun May 22, 2022 9:45 pm

dualstow wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 9:32 pm

Metzl’s book?

Left or right, boglerdude is extremist lite O0


1. Yes
2. Regarding bogledude's political transformation? It reminded me of sports fans who change their support / evaluation of their teams on the basis of one win or loss. Not really exactly like that but definitely being too swayed by somewhat recent events.

Relating it back to the Permanent Portfolio. You either firmly believe in it or you don't. If you do then you are not going to be swayed when it performs relatively poorly for a period of time. If you don't then after a time you are going to be looking for something better (which may lead to never finding anything superior b.ut almost always lead to inferior performance by jumping from investment philosophy / system to investment philosophy / system).
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by vnatale » Sun May 22, 2022 10:09 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 6:49 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:27 pm


Reducing gun violence does not necessarily mean taking away gun ownership rights. As usual when I have Washington Journal on I'm doing one, two, or three other things also so I'm only hearing bits and pieces of it. But the two things that stuck out regarding guns was that when someone brought up what had been done in Australia (total ban of guns?) he said he did not think that was possible here. The other was him saying that while things like the recent Buffalo shootings get all the attention those type of shootings are a tiny percentage of the overall deaths by guns and any other violence from guns. Therefore efforts should be focused on reducing death by guns and other violence from guns other than those that occur from mass shootings.

The racism part I'm not remembering as much. He did say that there are some politicians who cause reactions in people which results in them to vote against their own interests, such as Obamacare much to the detriment of their own lives.




f46679488053.jpg

The vast majority of gun deaths in the US are the result of black on black crime in large cities. But no one is allowed to talk about that.


"But white Americans dominate death-per-suicide-attempt categories for one main reason: they remain dramatically overrepresented in civilian death data about firearm suicides. According to the most frequently used database of morbidity and mortality in the United States—the Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System (WISQARS)—gun suicides between 2009 and 2015 looked like this:

• 2009: Non-Hispanic white gun suicides = 16,351; total gun suicides = 17,172

• 2010: Non-Hispanic white gun suicides = 16,928; total gun suicides = 18,365

• 2011: Non-Hispanic white gun suicides = 17,536; total gun suicides = 18,984

• 2012: Non-Hispanic white gun suicides = 18,022; total gun suicides = 19,572

• 2013: Non-Hispanic white gun suicides = 18,561; total gun suicides = 20,087

• 2014: Non-Hispanic white gun suicides = 18,619; total gun suicides = 20,152

• 2015: Non-Hispanic white gun suicides = 19,161; total gun suicides = 20,779

(As defined by the Census Bureau, Non-Hispanic whites are people in the United States who are considered racially white and are not of Hispanic or Latino origin/ethnicity.)

Put another way, 92 percent of gun suicides in the United States were committed by non-Hispanic white persons. These percentages were dramatically higher than those seen in other “race” groups in the census database—such as gun suicides committed by persons categorized as black, Asian, or Native Americas. Put into graph form, the numbers by race appeared as follows:

Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (44.61 KiB) Viewed 6187 times


Of course someone might think, Doesn’t this data simply reflect how the majority of people in the United States self-identify as white? While this statement is true, these shocking trends held even when the numbers were sifted through what statisticians call age-adjusted and crude rate calculations, which balance out the numbers of suicides in relation to total populations. It’s also important to consider that the percentage of non-Hispanic whites in the United States declined over the latter twentieth and early twenty-first centuries. Non-Hispanic white persons comprised 80 percent of the US population in 1980 but only 69 percent of the population in 2000. According to the US census, the percentage of non-Hispanic white people in the United States hit an all-time low of 62 percent in 2013 and kept falling every year after that. And yet over this same time period, 2009–2015, white populations consistently committed 92 percent of all gun suicides.23"


"From 2009 to 2015, non-Hispanic white men accounted for nearly 80 percent of all gun suicides in the United States, despite representing less than 35 percent of the total population.24"

"Similarly, a 2015 Brookings Institution report relied on data from the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control (NCIPC) database to show a remarkable segregation whereby the vast majority (77 percent) of white gun deaths were suicides, while “less than one in five (19 percent) is a homicide.” These figures were nearly opposite in black populations, where “only 14 percent of gun deaths are suicides but 82 percent are homicides.” Broadly put, a white person in the United States is five times as likely to die by suicide using a gun as to be shot with a gun; for each African American who uses a gun to commit suicide, five are killed by other people with guns.27"

"Public discourse about gun death instead focuses on violence toward others and homicides and relies more on racial and media stereotypes and anxieties about black criminals than on-the-ground realities. A widely cited opinion study published in the journal PLOS ONE found that “attitudes towards guns in many US whites appear to be influenced… by illogical racial biases” related to the “fear of black violence and crime.” Meanwhile, as the Pew report put it, the dramatic drop in gun homicide rates was not just invisible—most Americans believed the opposite to be true:"
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by Mark Leavy » Sun May 22, 2022 10:51 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:27 pm
[Finally, as the forum historian, ...
From my now three years of experience here ...
Slow clap.

Political labels are a distraction.

When the best and brightest contribute less frequently ...

Well, that is probably something for our forum historian to adjudicate.
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by dualstow » Mon May 23, 2022 5:59 am

vnatale wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 9:45 pm

2. Regarding bogledude's political transformation? It reminded me of sports fans who change their support / evaluation of their teams on the basis of one win or loss. Not really exactly like that but definitely being too swayed by somewhat recent events.
Well, I think that’s an unfair characterization. Teams don’t stand for anything (At least they’re not supposed to). If your party betrays or even disappoints you, it may be time to switch. What’s happening to the left is both creeping extremism and a change in values. Not to open a can of worms, but I’m not too keen on how they feel about Israel. But, mainly it’s the socialist leanings that get to me.
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Re: Washington Journal

Post by vnatale » Mon May 23, 2022 6:29 am

dualstow wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 5:59 am

vnatale wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 9:45 pm


2. Regarding bogledude's political transformation? It reminded me of sports fans who change their support / evaluation of their teams on the basis of one win or loss. Not really exactly like that but definitely being too swayed by somewhat recent events.

Well, I think that’s an unfair characterization. Teams don’t stand for anything (At least they’re not supposed to). If your party betrays or even disappoints you, it may be time to switch. What’s happening to the left is both creeping extremism and a change in values. Not to open a can of worms, but I’m not too keen on how they feel about Israel. But, mainly it’s the socialist leanings that get to me.


Then what happens when your next party betrays or even disappoints you? You go back to your former party and, so on? That was my analogy of fans being so quick to flip flop on their opinions based upon short-term events.

As an avid follower of Washington Journal I innumerable times hear people saying, "I used to be a Democrat (or a Republican) but..." My immediate response is that most likely you were a superficial Democrat or Republican with no deep roots. Just easily swayed to no longer being what you were.

It explains the way a president's polls can vary so much in a short period of time. The people answering the polls do not take any deep measure of the person but, instead, get swayed mainly with what is going on today, exhibiting little perspective.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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