College is expensive

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I Shrugged
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College is expensive

Post by I Shrugged » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:08 pm

I had a thought last night while being waited on at Whataburger by full grown adults. You just don't see teenagers work much any more. OK, so here was my train of thought.

College is so expensive that a kid cannot hope to self fund it. OTOH when I went, I was able to fund it by working summer jobs and money made and saved from high school jobs. But since it's crazy expensive now, working during high school and college years is almost pointless. You will be using some combo of parental funding and taking out loans to pay for college. Why waste your summer trying to put away 5 grand for college that costs 25-60K per year? Especially since you'll be using other people's money anyway?
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Re: College is expensive

Post by Hal » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:00 pm

Aussie GoldSmithPP - 25% PMGOLD, 75% VDCO
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Re: College is expensive

Post by vnatale » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:55 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:08 pm

I had a thought last night while being waited on at Whataburger by full grown adults. You just don't see teenagers work much any more. OK, so here was my train of thought.

College is so expensive that a kid cannot hope to self fund it. OTOH when I went, I was able to fund it by working summer jobs and money made and saved from high school jobs. But since it's crazy expensive now, working during high school and college years is almost pointless. You will be using some combo of parental funding and taking out loans to pay for college. Why waste your summer trying to put away 5 grand for college that costs 25-60K per year? Especially since you'll be using other people's money anyway?


In 1999 I regularly would take two kids who were friends with me to see Yankee games and on Saturday nights we would go to Times Square. They both had summer jobs but it seemed like they were spending all their money when they were with me.

I asked myself..."Have times changed so much that kids are no longer expected to earn any money to pay for part of their college expenses? That their parents are going to bear the full costs of going to college."

The two summer's prior to my freshman year of college I had 90 day jobs with the post office which paid more than double minimum wage. So I had relatively well paying jobs. I almost never had any other jobs during high school because I was either playing sports or doing a lot of studying or both.

I do remember starting work at the job after my senior year the day after graduation and working every day except for the last day before my first day of college.

Between those two years...in those two summers...I earned about $1,600 total. I was able to spend some of that money for myself but most of it had to be "saved for college".

My first year of college cost $4,000 with the second going to $4,500 after the tuition was raised by $500.

So back then...at a well paying summer job and by working just about the entire summer...I was only able to earn a maximum of 20% of the college costs (if I did not spend a cent on myself).

I went to a private, expensive college.


I read this book in one night, probably about ten years ago, and it still would probably work now.

Debt-Free U: How I Paid for an Outstanding College Education Without Loans, Scholarships, or Mooching off My Parents

https://www.amazon.com/Debt-Free-U-How- ... l_huc_item


The basic plan is:

1) Go to your local community college your first two years and live at home
2) Go to your state university your second two years
3) Work every moment possible - summers, school vacations, during school within reason

Basically you are taking the value approach by getting as much education at the lowest possible costs, foregoing the "college experience" those first two years, and earning as much money as you can.

In the end...you parents don't put up a cent and you graduate debt free.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: College is expensive

Post by pp4me » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:11 pm

I was also able to save enough money for a year or two at Ohio State University by working as a busboy when I was in high school. Hard to imagine anybody doing that today. I mean either saving enough money for college or working as a busboy in high school.

After 12 years sitting in classrooms I only lasted one quarter at OSU before I dropped out and joined the Navy. Figured I could learn a lot more about life by doing the latter. Learned a little too much about life due to the goddamm war but I still have never regretted it.

Fortunately, I discovered through an aptitude test that I had a highly marketable skill as a computer programmer when I got out of the Navy. I got some training but never did get a degree and it was all free of charge thanks to a government training program for Vets and the G.I. Bill. It was enough to get me in the door and have a very successful career. Again, I doubt that happens very much, if at all today. I suspect my resume, without a computer science degree, would go immediately into the trash can.
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Re: College is expensive

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:51 pm

There were a lot of teenagers working around where I live (Rust Belt midwest) back before da Wuhan. Mostly in the places you'd expect: grocery stores, pools, and fast food. Personally, I worked in a grocery store and fast food the two free summers I had in college (the other two I was doing military training). I think when the economy is humming and there's not much unemployment, employers with low-skilled work hire more teenagers.

Oddly enough (heh), there are still plenty of teenagers at the same places.
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Re: College is expensive

Post by I Shrugged » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:22 pm

vnatale wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:55 pm



I read this book in one night, probably about ten years ago, and it still would probably work now.

Debt-Free U: How I Paid for an Outstanding College Education Without Loans, Scholarships, or Mooching off My Parents

https://www.amazon.com/Debt-Free-U-How- ... l_huc_item


The basic plan is:

1) Go to your local community college your first two years and live at home
2) Go to your state university your second two years
3) Work every moment possible - summers, school vacations, during school within reason

Basically you are taking the value approach by getting as much education at the lowest possible costs, foregoing the "college experience" those first two years, and earning as much money as you can.

In the end...you parents don't put up a cent and you graduate debt free.
I basically did all 3 of those things.
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Re: College is expensive

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:22 pm

From 1986, U of Illinois:

Image

So a year, tuition and room and board would be ~ $4490.

I worked at Jewel during the summer and breaks and was making $6.15 an hour. If I worked full time (did not) for 3.5 months a year, would gross around $3400. So close, but not covered.

Right now, Notre Dame cost per year:

Image

So not even remotely possible!
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Re: College is expensive

Post by Xan » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:39 pm

Running that through a naive inflation calculator, the $4490/year would today be $11,200/year. Much less than $78,347! :-O
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Re: College is expensive

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:57 pm

On the bright side, one of her friends accepted an offer at Ford for $78,000 a year.

I don't know what fresh out salaries are nowadays for STEM kids, but that seems damn good.

Still only covers one year costs at ND, whereas my 1989 starting salary of $30,500 would have more than covered 4 years of school back then.
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Re: College is expensive

Post by flyingpylon » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:09 pm

The question is, for that or an equivalent $78k job does it make more sense to go to ND or go down the road to Purdue for A LOT less (even if out of state)?

https://admissions.purdue.edu/costsandf ... onfees.php

(while recognizing that these decisions are not entirely financial)
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Re: College is expensive

Post by D1984 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:15 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:57 pm
On the bright side, one of her friends accepted an offer at Ford for $78,000 a year.

I don't know what fresh out salaries are nowadays for STEM kids, but that seems damn good.

Still only covers one year costs at ND, whereas my 1989 starting salary of $30,500 would have more than covered 4 years of school back then.
It is true that college costs today are ridiculous (and I'm not here to defend them; like I said before, if it were up to me college prices would be heavily regulated and would also be paid directly or more-or-less indirectly via public funds)....but isn't comparing Notre Dame to a state university like U of Illinois a bit unfair? What is the costs for U-of-I today vs itself in 1986? Would that not be the more relevant comparison? I have no doubt that tuition + room and board at Illinois has increased well beyond the rate of inflation but I (hope, at least) bet that it wouldn't be as high as at a private university like Notre Dame.

EDIT: Dammit, Pugchief beat me to the punch (regarding comparing a state uni to a private college). Ignore the above.

PS - Were you really making $6.15 an hour in 1986/1987/1988? At Jewel? As in Jewel-Osco...the grocery store/supermarket? $6.15 an hour in that time period is like $14.50 or $15 an hour today.
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Re: College is expensive

Post by pp4me » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:28 pm

I believe when I attended Ohio State University for one quarter in the fall of 1967, the tuition was $215 for 5 credit hours. Add another $30 or so for books and you're talking less than $250 - so about $1k/year altogether if you went 4 quarters. As for housing and food, I lived off campus and fed myself. Those were necessities whether I went to college or not so I don't count it as college expense.
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Re: College is expensive

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:33 pm

D1984 wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:15 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:57 pm
On the bright side, one of her friends accepted an offer at Ford for $78,000 a year.

I don't know what fresh out salaries are nowadays for STEM kids, but that seems damn good.

Still only covers one year costs at ND, whereas my 1989 starting salary of $30,500 would have more than covered 4 years of school back then.
It is true that college costs today are ridiculous (and I'm not here to defend them; like I said before, if it were up to me college prices would be heavily regulated and would also be paid directly or more-or-less indirectly via public funds)....but isn't comparing Notre Dame to a state university like U of Illinois a bit unfair? What is the costs for U-of-I today vs itself in 1986? Would that not be the more relevant comparison? I have no doubt that tuition + room and board at Illinois has increased well beyond the rate of inflation but I (hope, at least) bet that it wouldn't be as high as at a private university like Notre Dame.

EDIT: Dammit, Pugchief beat me to the punch (regarding comparing a state uni to a private college). Ignore the above.

PS - Were you really making $6.15 an hour in 1986/1987/1988? At Jewel? As in Jewel-Osco...the grocery store/supermarket? $6.15 an hour in that time period is like $14.50 or $15 an hour today.
I only compared ND because my daughter goes there.

All in U of I is currently shown below. Out of state gets amazingly close to ND.

Please also note, U of I offered exactly zero to us in terms of academic or financial aid. ND has given us $28k/year, so my out of pocket is closer to $50k. All private schools we applied to were very cognizant of needing to get close to at least the out of state tuition costs of public.

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Re: College is expensive

Post by I Shrugged » Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:52 pm

Two years at junior college were probably $1000 a year, so I was putting money in the bank during those two years. I did run out of money during year 4 at state U, and borrowed a small amount.
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Re: College is expensive

Post by vnatale » Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:43 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:05 pm

Xan wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:39 pm

Running that through a naive inflation calculator, the $4490/year would today be $11,200/year. Much less than $78,347! :-O


Not a fair comparison. The first was an in-state public school and the second is a higher end private university.


Yes.

To make my own private / public school comparison.

My first year at a private school in 1969 - Worcester Polytechnic Institute - was $4,000. The next year the tuition was raised $500 for a total cost of $4,500.

That would be $31,000 and $32,500 in today's $$$$$.

Several years later (1975) I made my way to the University of Massachusetts as a transfer student entering as a junior.

I remember my first year there when the students were protesting that tuition had been raised to $300. I thought to myself, "You idiots. Where I'd first gone to school five years earlier the tuition had been RAISED $500."

In the next three years going to school continuously (including the two summers) I finished both an undergraduate degrees in accounting and a masters degree in accounting.

I had $1,000 saved when I entered school. I did work study plus started my own accounting business the last semester of graduate school. I ended up borrowing $2,000. Which is about $10,000 in today's $$$$$.
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Re: College is expensive

Post by Dieter » Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:01 pm

I figure my (state) college was paid about 1/3 by parents, 1/3 by my working, and 1/3 by loans and the occasional grant or scholarship.

(Four years, away at in-state University)

Late 80's

Worked full time all breaks (basically minimum wage), plus work/study part time during the school year.

Costs have only gotten worse.
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