Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

[Dieter]

Would love for people to add to this list (if any additions are needed) so we can come up with our very own DIY Primary Care Guide!

Doing regular free weight exercising (barbells and NOT dumb bells!).

I just passed 10 years of consistently doing it and the quality of life enhancements continue.

I recently read somewhere that exercise has a greater effect on life than does diet (in no way minimizing also striving for a good diet...just emphasizing how effective exercise can be...).

Why no Dumbbells? My goto (no room for barbells; I'm definitely NOT a heavy lifter, but trying to be more consistent about resistance training).

And, ever read Younger Next Year? Basically, occasional high intensity exercise helps reduce biological age.

Yes. I did read that one about ten years ago.

I do less than 30 minutes of cardio in the entire week. Yet at my age...when I'm on the basketball court...running bases in softball...you don't hear me huffing and puffing out of breath. I know it comes from the barbells.

And, why barbells and NOT dumbbells?

What in real life do you ever attempt with one hand / arm when the other one can help? Working out with barbells helps develop overall body coordination the same way you'd use your body parts in real life.

This article is a good one at explaining why barbells are the superior strength training to all other methods (though this article just compares it to machines)...

https://startingstrength.com/article/wh ... chines-txt

By the way...the woman pictured in the beginning of the article doing the deadlift who looks like she has way more muscles than me....appears to be she is doing a similar weight pound deadlift to me. Here 185 pounds while my tops (and finishing set) is 190 pounds.

I assume you do a bit of a circuit to keep your heart rate up? That tends to be my primary cardio at the moment, with some fast walking and occasional swimming / dancing.

>> What in real life do you ever attempt with one hand / arm when the other one can help?

Partner dancing!

It's primarily my right arm that supports my partner during a swing, and I like to swing fast.

Of course, I do mostly band rows for that. Dumbbells primarily for shoulder and squats presses.

I think the article that you linked would also (mostly?) apply to dumbbells vs machines

My understanding is that barbells support going heavier and easier progress, but dumbbells possibly safer?

Also, takes less space and more flexible, which is why I use my space saving adjustable dumbbells at home.

[vnatale]

I assume you do a bit of a circuit to keep your heart rate up? That tends to be my primary cardio at the moment, with some fast walking and occasional swimming / dancing.

>> What in real life do you ever attempt with one hand / arm when the other one can help?

Partner dancing!

It's primarily my right arm that supports my partner during a swing, and I like to swing fast.

Of course, I do mostly band rows for that. Dumbbells primarily for shoulder and squats presses.

I think the article that you linked would also (mostly?) apply to dumbbells vs machines

My understanding is that barbells support going heavier and easier progress, but dumbbells possibly safer?

Also, takes less space and more flexible, which is why I use my space saving adjustable dumbbells at home.

No circuit training. It's always been difficult to keep my heart rate up as my normal heart rate is in the 40s to low 50s range when resting.

This is one thing I found at the Starting Strength web site:

"You can do strength training with dumb bells to a certain extant , however they are an unstable load to bear (especially when the load is increased), you need to hitch up those plates to an axle i.e a barbell, it is a much more stable platform to work from and safer as you have more control across two arms rather than to split the weight."

[Maddy]

Iodine - . . . . I get liquid iodine drops and take 500 mcg daily. My eyebrows are slowly filling in and I no longer have cold hands/feet, dry skin etc.

I have the same issues. Thinning of the outer one-third of eyebrows is generally thought to be a sign of thyroid deficiency--which in addition to iodine may be autoimmune (Hashimoto's).

A couple of years ago I went to Quest and got a complete thyroid panel. Normal, but on the low end of some values. I wondered whether I should have gotten a more extensive set of tests. There's one that tests for an anti-thyroid antibody (don't recall the name); also one that includes the word "reverse" (also can't remember the name of it). All in all, it seems that thyroid testing is tricky and that you can have significant symptoms without the lab values being all that far off. What to do.

[Dieter]

<snip>

No circuit training. It's always been difficult to keep my heart rate up as my normal heart rate is in the 40s to low 50s range when resting.

This is one thing I found at the Starting Strength web site:

"You can do strength training with dumb bells to a certain extant , however they are an unstable load to bear (especially when the load is increased), you need to hitch up those plates to an axle i.e a barbell, it is a much more stable platform to work from and safer as you have more control across two arms rather than to split the weight."

Ah, yeah, that's a good point.

Gonna have to figure things out if / when I get to heavier weights.

[WiseOne]

Iodine - . . . . I get liquid iodine drops and take 500 mcg daily. My eyebrows are slowly filling in and I no longer have cold hands/feet, dry skin etc.

I have the same issues. Thinning of the outer one-third of eyebrows is generally thought to be a sign of thyroid deficiency--which in addition to iodine may be autoimmune (Hashimoto's).

A couple of years ago I went to Quest and got a complete thyroid panel. Normal, but on the low end of some values. I wondered whether I should have gotten a more extensive set of tests. There's one that tests for an anti-thyroid antibody (don't recall the name); also one that includes the word "reverse" (also can't remember the name of it). All in all, it seems that thyroid testing is tricky and that you can have significant symptoms without the lab values being all that far off. What to do.

Try the iodine and see what happens? 500 mcg a day won't hurt you. The Japanese take in something like 2000-3000 daily.

[WiseOne]

If you have the "hangry" problem (I used to), eating more fat and less carbs is the answer.

During the first week or so of keto, I had a really crazy experience. I woke up one morning with the strongest urge to eat something I've ever felt in my life. I literally leaped out of bed and ran into the kitchen. It felt like a withdrawal symptom, and it made me all the more determined to keep on with it. The first few weeks, I was eating things like sandwiches made from slabs of cream cheese between slices of bacon because I was so desperate for food. It took around a month before that subsided, and suddenly the addictive behavior stopped.

Yet another way our bodies are telling us what they'd rather eat. And your body is more qualified as an authority than the USDA. Incidentally: yes the brain uses a lot of energy but it actually prefers ketones to glucose. This is why ketogenic diets are so effective for a host of brain disorders, and probably also why people report feeling more clear headed and less fatigued on keto. In addition to getting rid of the constant need for munchies.

[vnatale]

Is there general agreement among the Keto followers among us on this:

Capture.JPG (35.35 KiB) Viewed 4045 times

Or, is there some big disagreements with anything there?

It seems fairly clear that you want to eat the lower number items.

Is there some expanded list somewhere for the numbers for fruits and vegetables?

The only items I eat on the avoid list is fruit. I'm assuming pure cocoa powder is nowhere equivalent to a Chocolate bar?

[Kriegsspiel]

Is there general agreement among the Keto followers among us on this:

jpeg

Or, is there some big disagreements with anything there?

The disagreement might be between people who think it's important to actually adhere to the ketogenic ratio (as in epileptic diets), vs people who want to keep carbs low enough to produce ketones on a keto strip vs people who just don't eat carbs. From what I understand, it's the lack of carbs that make your body produce ketones, not eating fat. I don't think it matters, since someone who isn't eating any fat is going to be producing ketones as long as they're not eating carbs, but really, someone who's eating mostly protein (and some fat) isn't eating a "keto" diet the way most anyone understands the word.

So looking at your chart, if someone ate only from the "good" list, but they ate only chicken breast, they aren't really doing "keto" the way someone would think they were if they told them. More of a labeling issue than anything IMO.

Is there some expanded list somewhere for the numbers for fruits and vegetables?

The only items I eat on the avoid list is fruit. I'm assuming pure cocoa powder is nowhere equivalent to a Chocolate bar?

No, don't eat fruit.

[Kriegsspiel]

Incidentally: yes the brain uses a lot of energy but it actually prefers ketones to glucose.

Source?

I'm curious as to whether The Ketogenic Diet is a bit dated (but still, a phenomenal book that anyone who's interested in ketogenic diets should get), here's what Lyle says:

The fact that the brain is incapable of using FFA for fuel has led to one of the biggest
misconceptions about human physiology: that the brain can only use glucose for fuel. While it is
true that the brain normally runs on glucose, the brain will readily use ketones for fuel if they are
available (4-6).
Arguably the most important tissue in terms of ketone utilization is the brain which can
derive up to 75% of its total energy requirements from ketones after adaptation (4-6). In all
likelihood, ketones exist primarily to provide a fat-derived fuel for the brain during periods when
carbohydrates are unavailable (2,7).

2. Cahill G. Starvation in man. N Engl J Med (1970) 282: 668-675
4. Owen O.E. et. al. Brain metabolism during fasting. J Clin Invest (1967) 10: 1589-1595.
5. Sokoloff L. Metabolism of ketone bodies by the brain. Ann Rev Med (1973) 24: 271-280.
6. Cahill G. Ketosis. Kidney International (1981) 20: 416-425.
7. Mitchell GA et. al. Medical aspects of ketone body metabolism. Clinical & Investigative
Medicine (1995) 18: 193-216.

[WiseOne]

Incidentally: yes the brain uses a lot of energy but it actually prefers ketones to glucose.

Source?

Search medline for clinical trials of the ketogenic diet for epilepsy and Alzheimer's. There's a lot of them. Keto diet is very effective for both, at least as effective as any of the currently available medications.

Another bit of evidence: people who follow a "zero carb" diet, thus eating no glucose at all, have functioning brains :-).

[Kriegsspiel]

Incidentally: yes the brain uses a lot of energy but it actually prefers ketones to glucose.

Source?

Search medline for clinical trials of the ketogenic diet for epilepsy and Alzheimer's. There's a lot of them. Keto diet is very effective for both, at least as effective as any of the currently available medications.

Another bit of evidence: people who follow a "zero carb" diet, thus eating no glucose at all, have functioning brains :-).

No, I meant the source for "prefers ketones to glucose." You can see from my post that I don't think people that don't eat glucose don't have functioning brains.

[Mark Leavy]

]Search medline for clinical trials of the ketogenic diet for epilepsy and Alzheimer's. There's a lot of them. Keto diet is very effective for both, at least as effective as any of the currently available medications.

Another bit of evidence: people who follow a "zero carb" diet, thus eating no glucose at all, have functioning brains :-).

No, I meant the source for "prefers ketones to glucose." You can see from my post that I don't think people that don't eat glucose don't have functioning brains.

You're a wise man.

I did an experiment around March 2020 during the height of the lockdown where I tried to replicate the clinical Keto diet. I.e. greater than 80% of the calories from fat and the rest from protein. (I used mostly saturated fat - stearic acid)

Strictly an N=1 (so not a valid source) experiment but I thought I was yoda after a couple of weeks. Serious brain food. But I needed more protein. Of all of the crazy experiments that I have done - 80% saturated fat had the most nootropic effects.

Edit: I had been 'low carb' / 'fat adapted' for years, so there was no startup delay.

[Mark Leavy]

The only thing that has more stearic acid than butter and ribeyes is 90% dark chocolate.

I like chocolate a bit - but I'm not seriously into it. But (for the sake of science) I melted 100 grams of 90% into my coffee every morning, had a half a dozen eggs, and a ribeye with butter every day for 6 months.

Truth be told, it is delicious and if you ever need to be Tony Stark smart - it is the way to go. But your pull ups will suffer.

[Dieter]

Dumbbells vs barbells:

A barbell is a fixed long single bar. It makes it easier to stabilize and focus on the main muscle you’re using. Which can be a bad thing for fitness, since with a dumbbell, you lack the inherent stabilization the bar provides and must recruit different accessory muscles to perform the lift. So you can a different workout with dumbbells by virtue of having to stabilize two separate unconnected weights.

Think about lying on your back on a bench and doing upward bench press with a bar, versus the same motion with two dumbbells. Due to lack of connecting bar, the dumbbells are harder to stabilize and you use more of different accessory muscles, which can be good.

However, with dumbbells, due to lack of stability, you can’t go as heavy. Depending on the exercise you can go 2x to 4x the weight with a bar compared to separate dumbbells (when you add the weight of both together in comparison to bar total weight).

The reason for this is that your accessory muscles required to stabilize the dumbbells aren’t as strong as the main muscle you’re working. You can’t get your accessory chest and shoulder muscles strong enough to dumbbell press anywhere near as much as you can bench press, since you’re focusing entirely on your main chest/pec muscle when using the bar.

So both are useful tools. Dumbbells help get accessory muscles. Barbells help strengthen the primary muscles more than would be possible with the dumbbells (due to limitations on relative strength of accessory muscles)

From a safety perspective, dumbbells may be safer for a home gym user since you can drop them to the floor and not worry about having a bar crush your spine or pin your chest down until you die of dehydration a few days later or pin down your neck until you suffocate a few minutes later. And most people don’t need the extra strength development from using barbells so I think dumbbells make more sense, but they take up more space, unless you get adjustable and those can be finicky.

Thanks!

[stuper1]

I use a barbell for deadlifts but dumb bells for bench press and overhead press, because you can damage your shoulders easier using a barbell for presses. Much easier to get a natural motion on presses using dumb bells.

[Kriegsspiel]

I use a barbell for deadlifts but dumb bells for bench press and overhead press, because you can damage your shoulders easier using a barbell for presses. Much easier to get a natural motion on presses using dumb bells.

Hah, I'm kind of the opposite. I am doing single leg DLs with a dumbbell, and I'm just doing laterals and front raises for shoulders. But benching I use a barbell. If you use the correct technique (pinch the shoulder blades together, lower with the lats, keep the elbows close to the torso), it's pretty safe.

[jalanlong]

Incidentally: yes the brain uses a lot of energy but it actually prefers ketones to glucose.

WiseOne,

Do you know of the science that backs up that the brain prefers ketones to glucose? I’ve never been able to find any online. I have seen many health websites claim that that glucose is the preferred fuel of our bodies.

Is there a difference between the ketones made when you are on a keto or carnivore diet vs when you are fasting but otherwise eating a standard diet?

[Kriegsspiel]

Yes, that's what I was getting at. If the studies hold that I mentioned earlier, the brain will still use 25% glucose (from gluconeogenesis) and 75% ketones, instead of 100% ketones in the brain and using the glucose elsewhere, then that implies that the brain will use glucose when it has it, and will use ketones when glucose isn't available.

If I'm reading WiseOne correctly, she's saying that the brain runs better on ketones than on glucose. But I think she's more of a nerd than I am so if the first paragraph is not correct, I suspect she'd know.

[bedraggled]

Concerning magnesium supplementation, I have both citrate and glycinate.

What is the case against citrate?

Thanks.

[Mark Leavy]

I've seen plenty of commentary that brains run better on ketones than they do on glucose, but I don't recall reading any proof. I've also seen commentary on the purported mechanism, but nothing rigorous.

This study seems to show that when there are ketones in the body (for whatever reason) then a portion of the brain will run on ketones. And it is proportional to the amount of ketones circulating in your plasma.

None of that seems too surprising, and doesn't directly address the Which one is better? question.

KETONES SUPPRESS BRAIN GLUCOSE CONSUMPTION

Abstract
The brain is dependent on glucose as a primary energy substrate, but is capable of utilizing ketones such as β-hydroxybutyrate (βHB) and acetoacetate (AcAc), as occurs with fasting, prolonged starvation or chronic feeding of a high fat/low carbohydrate diet (ketogenic diet). In this study, the local cerebral metabolic rate of glucose consumption (CMRglu; μM/min/100g) was calculated in the cortex and cerebellum of control and ketotic rats using Patlak analysis. Rats were imaged on a rodent PET scanner and MRI was performed on a 7-Tesla Bruker scanner for registration with the PET images. Plasma glucose and βHB concentrations were measured and 90-minute dynamic PET scans were started simultaneously with bolus injection of 2-Deoxy-2[18F]Fluoro-D-Glucose (FDG). The blood radioactivity concentration was automatically sampled from the tail vein for 3 min following injection and manual periodic blood samples were taken. The calculated local CMRGlu decreased with increasing plasma BHB concentration in the cerebellum (CMRGlu = −4.07*[BHB] + 61.4, r² = 0.3) and in the frontal cortex (CMRGlu = −3.93*[BHB] + 42.7, r² = 0.5). These data indicate that, under conditions of ketosis, glucose consumption is decreased in the cortex and cerebellum by about 10% per each mM of plasma ketone bodies.

[Maddy]

Does the rate of glucose consumption by the brain correlate with enhanced brain performance? After all, isn't that what we're really concerned with here?

I wouldn't necessarily assume that glucose uptake is a valid indicator of how well the brain is functioning. It's possible that a glucose-driven brain needs more fuel precisely because it's struggling. Point being that there are some untested assumptions being employed here.

[vnatale]

I use a barbell for deadlifts but dumb bells for bench press and overhead press, because you can damage your shoulders easier using a barbell for presses. Much easier to get a natural motion on presses using dumb bells.

I only do four different barbell exercises all week.

Every day I start with the squat and end with the dead lift. Each day I rotate from the overhead press one day and then the bench press another.

Again for me....from reading the large Starting Strength book twice (it has 80 pages alone on how to do the proper squat)....it's been drilled into me that doing any exercise with barbells are more natural motion than using dumb bells.

When trying to lift a heavy box over my head to put it somewhere I am ALWAYS using two hands to do it...never just one.

[Maddy]

Does the rate of glucose consumption by the brain correlate with enhanced brain performance? After all, isn't that what we're really concerned with here?

I wouldn't necessarily assume that glucose uptake is a valid indicator of how well the brain is functioning. It's possible that a glucose-driven brain needs more fuel precisely because it's struggling. Point being that there are some untested assumptions being employed here.

[vnatale]

Food for thought: Does the brain need carbs?


https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/doe ... need-carbs



Although it accounts for only 2% of your body weight, your brain consumes 20% of your daily energy.
1

In order to carry out its important functions, the brain requires a steady fuel supply. The brain can use two main fuels, glucose or ketones, both of which cross the blood-brain barrier.

In people who eat a diet moderate to high in carbohydrates, the brain’s main energy source is glucose. In people who eat a low-carb, ketogenic diet, the brain can use ketones to meet a major portion of its energy needs.
2

So your brain can have all its energy demands met by the liver, from stored glucose, gluconeogenesis, or ketone production — whether or not you eat any carbs at all.

Indeed, the US Food and Nutrition Board’s 2005 textbook “Dietary Reference Intakes for Energy, Carbohydrate, Fiber, Fat, Fatty Acids, Cholesterol, Protein, and Amino Acids,” states that:

“The lower limit of dietary carbohydrate compatible with life apparently is zero, provided that adequate amounts of protein and fat are consumed.”

[WiseOne]

I didn't answer the whole glucose vs. ketone issue because the answer is already in my last post, but I'll elaborate a bit here.

Both Alzheimer's and epilepsy show marked abnormalities on FDG-PET scanning. That's an assessment of glucose uptake in the brain, and it's most reduced in brain areas already known to be abnormal in these disorders.

The ketogenic diet works very well for both conditions. About as well as a medication for Alzheimer's (but without the behavioral side effects), and MUCH better than medications for epilepsy. There are probably a lot of reasons for this (which of course are not well understood), but one factor is that the brain regions that couldn't utilize glucose are able to utilize the ketones.

Anecdotally, people who switch to a ketogenic diet almost universally report that they are less fatigued and more clear-thinking on keto. Also anecdotally, I see an improvement in my mom (who has Alzheimer's) when she takes exogenous ketones. I got her some of that after seeing a clinical trial of exogenous ketones for Alzheimer's in the UK showing marked improvement. Now if I could only get her to take it regularly!

So that's the basis for my statement - although I must admit no one has done a comparative study of brain cells (neurons, glia etc) bathed in glucose vs ketones to see what they "prefer" - but I tend to think this is pretty good evidence nonetheless.